2010.11.13 19:00 - Watching Thoughts

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi pema!!
Pema Pera: hi Aphrodite!
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice view!
Pema Pera: for me too, watching your magnificent dress!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) it is my costume for tomorrow. I hope you can attend. It is at 8AM at the dome - a fashion show of all outr costumes when we "drop what we have to see who we are>"
Pema Pera: yes, a great initiative by Bleu!
Aphrodite Macbain: I became energy and water
Pema Pera: Alas, 8-9 am SLT is 1-2 am in TOkyo
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. She's wonderful and multi talented
Pema Pera: so I'm afraid that's a bit too late for me
Aphrodite Macbain: too bad. we'll take photos
Pema Pera: energy and water, yes, very clearly expressed!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Lugh
Lugh Fehr: heyyz people
Pema Pera: I'm looking forward to see the photos and read the chat log!
Pema Pera: hi Lugh
Lugh Fehr: hey pema did you start the sim?
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. all our quotres and commnents will be recordeand illustrated
Aphrodite Macbain: In the beginning there was Pema
Pema Pera: start the sim, Lugh?
Lugh Fehr: nono did your creat the sim i thinck sombody said that?
Pema Pera: I started the Play as Being idea, yes
Lugh Fehr: coool
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eos
Pema Pera: this pavilion was created by Storm
Lugh Fehr: hey eros

It was my first time to meet Lugh, though I'd seen his visits in some of the chat logs.

Pema Pera: Nice to meet you, Lugh!
Pema Pera: hi Eos!
Lugh Fehr: nice to meet you pema and great idea
Lugh Fehr: !!!
Pema Pera: thanks!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema, Aph, Lugh
Aphrodite Macbain: Was any one here also here at the 1pm meeting?
Pema Pera: I'm happily surprised to see us gathering here for more than two and a half years now, many thousands of sessions :)
Lugh Fehr: yep iwas
Aphrodite Macbain: it's an amazing record
Lugh Fehr: heheh hear i met someof the wisest people i met so far
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: were there others at the 1 pm session, Lugh?
Aphrodite Macbain: Noone was at the 1pm session today?
--BELL--
Lugh Fehr: yes
Pema Pera: I was asleep :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I was supposed to be here- and wasn't. Major guilt feelings. Steve said there is a place where forgetful Avis go.:-)
Pema Pera: hahaha
Lugh Fehr: hehhe

Just at that moment Steve appeared!

Pema Pera: and there he comes!
Eos Amaterasu: do they ever come back?
Aphrodite Macbain: speaking of the devil ...
Pema Pera: hi Steve, and hi Susan!
Aphrodite Macbain: gosh I hope soEos
Lugh Fehr: hey Ss
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Susan
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia
Pema Pera: Lugh, you were at the 1 pm session, did you say?
Lugh Fehr: yep
Pema Pera: were there others?
Lugh Fehr: yep
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you know who was the Guardian?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Susan
stevenaia Michinaga: aww there is Susan, hello
Lugh Fehr: ermmm someone begging whit s no its not I spy heheh she had been away from the sim for a while cant remmember her name
Pema Pera: (and Aphro, I will admit that I also have forgotten to go to a session -- also felt very bad . . . it happens :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Pema. I feel a little better ...
Aphrodite Macbain: I was doing yoga!
Lugh Fehr: away from sl*
Pema Pera: (I bet all of us oldtimers skip, sooner or later)
Lugh Fehr: so you havent seen her for a while but she used to be here alot ring any bells?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) old-brainers
Pema Pera: hahaha
Aphrodite Macbain: no
Pema Pera: Lugh, did you happy to keep a chat log of the conversation for the 1 pm session?
Lugh Fehr: :S
Aphrodite Macbain: I have no memoery
Aphrodite Macbain: memory
Lugh Fehr: nope i dont thinck so where can it be stored
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, and you seems to have more "no memory" the older you get
Lugh Fehr: but their was a gardin i remember her saying she will pick it up

That was the most important piece of information :)

Aphrodite Macbain: I'm going to see if anyone has posted it.
Pema Pera: ah, great, that is all we needed, Lugh
Lugh Fehr: brb
Pema Pera: Great to see you again, Susan!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Susan
Pema Pera: Does anyone have a topic they'd like to discuss?
Susan Aloix: Thanks Pema....Yes lovely to be here ...I caught a meeting recently which was in voice...that was fun :)
Susan Aloix: Hi Eos :)
Pema Pera: ah yes, Friday afternoons
Susan Aloix: ahhh kk...
Aphrodite Macbain: Nope. Nothing posted
stevenaia Michinaga: are you going be posting anything for the art project tomarrow, Pema?
Pema Pera: no, Steve, I'll read the log and view the photos later, it's well past midnight for me in Japan
Pema Pera: how about you?
Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu is the poster or me
stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut finished my notecate, but the new next to my opic is incorrect
stevenaia Michinaga: *notecard
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry the name next to the work is incorrect
Aphrodite Macbain: Storm's domain. He'll be checking in tomorrow and should get all his messages
stevenaia Michinaga: left Storm a message, assumes he took a guess
Aphrodite Macbain: How are you Susan?
Aphrodite Macbain: Pema. Do you have any idea how I can find that log?
Lugh Fehr: ahhh a hot pot of tae x)
stevenaia Michinaga: that;s wol's domain
Eos Amaterasu: Are you on a Mac, aph?
Pema Pera: Wel, one way is to send an email to Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: oh right
Susan Aloix: Good thanks Aphrodite......I'm back now...turning phone off....how are you? :)
Pema Pera: yes, and ask him
Pema Pera: but given that Lugh said somebody else picked up the log
Pema Pera: so you could just wait a couple days to see whether it appears
stevenaia Michinaga: Wol will know who claimed the log
Pema Pera: and if not, then it would be good to ask Wol
Pema Pera: or yes, good point Steve!
Aphrodite Macbain: How? OK I'll IM her
Lugh Fehr: yeah and qt was their maby he remembers the name
Pema Pera: yes, that would be best, Aphro
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh thanks all
Pema Pera: ah, thanks Lugh!
Lugh Fehr: and... chi a new guy came that they and zen
Lugh Fehr: they is both they and day * hmm wierd

I was thinking about bringing up a specific topic, but thought it might be fun first to see whether anyone else had a specific suggestion.

Pema Pera: well, any other topic that anybody would like to discuss?
--BELL--
Susan Aloix: You mean about anything Pema? or related to something?
Susan Aloix: opps
Pema Pera: anything, Susan!
stevenaia Michinaga: I had an unfortunate run in with police while doing some bad driving today... resulting in a "don;t let it happen again" wonders about fate and good fortune, how it follows some people
Pema Pera: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: and I assume not others
Susan Aloix: okay :)...
Pema Pera: living in a small town helps there I guess :)
stevenaia Michinaga: trying to rule out luck, yes, the officer recognized my name
Pema Pera: there you go
stevenaia Michinaga: (which is also freightening in itself)
Pema Pera: :)
Lugh Fehr: hehe had someprivus run ins?
Eos Amaterasu: maybe being was knocking on your door
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. what if he didn't like your architecture!?
stevenaia Michinaga: but for some, clouds follow, and for others the sun always shines
Pema Pera: Susan, any topic goes, from the nature of reality (or time or space or awareness, etc) to contacts with the police, as you can see :-)
Pema Pera: all being part of reality . . .
Susan Aloix: :) i'm interested in meditation....one aspect in particular right now comes to mind
stevenaia Michinaga: I was hoping to take a larger view of that little run in, Pema :)
Aphrodite Macbain: like the little abner character with the clouds
stevenaia Michinaga: doging bullets of life
Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of meditation susan?
stevenaia Michinaga: dodging
Eos Amaterasu: mr pfliz*tzk or something like tthat/
Eos Amaterasu: that?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes!

At that point I realized that my further explanation to Susan, about anything goes, may have cut off Steve's story, which was not my intention; in any case, often we have several threads going simultaneously, and I was also interested in Susan's meditation thread.

Pema Pera: sorry, Steve, I didn't mean to cut you off!
stevenaia Michinaga: no, no problem
Aphrodite Macbain: susan?
stevenaia Michinaga: they could very well be related :)
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes bad guys / bad phenomena can be your friends, Stevenaia
Pema Pera: Prlwytzkofski perhaps, Eos?
Susan Aloix: as one *watches* thoughts.....do you think over time the thoughts recede......or persist ....when i'm meditating i'm wondering where the thoughts have gone.....
Eos Amaterasu: great question!
Lugh Fehr: whit what are you wondering?
Pema Pera: Hi Calvino, great to see you again!
Aphrodite Macbain: Susan, I have been doing sme new yoga (that's why I missed the 1pm session here) and I'm having to learn how to meditate without hurting my rotten knees
Calvino Rabeni: Pema - its been ages :)
Aphrodite Macbain: my focus returns to pain
Eos Amaterasu: I think just observing thought coming going who knows fromwhere to where is enough
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Calvino
Lugh Fehr: if your wondering while meditating theirs wher the thincking went
Pema Pera: I know, I've been far more busy with my work in the last few monhts . . .
Susan Aloix: I'm really slow at typing sorry Aphrodite.....takes time to form my thoughts at times....i'm not that good at keeping up with the flow of text communication...so apologies if i miss someone as well....(just the watching ones breath /body kind of meditation)
Aphrodite Macbain: n.p
Aphrodite Macbain: no rush!
Pema Pera: yes, Eos, I agree
Eos Amaterasu: conversations can interweave here, can be tricky sailing :-)
Lugh Fehr: are you wondering while meditating susan?
Susan Aloix:

Eos then made a great suggestion, which we would pick up a few minutes later.

Eos Amaterasu: So Susan, the question you raised could be a great one to "hold" in the upcoming 90 seconds!
Aphrodite Macbain: It is a challenge to keep up. Don't worry
Susan Aloix: :) love to do more yoga aphrodite
Pema Pera: not to worry, Susan -- chats are like party conversations, not every sentence gets followed up, not by a long shot
Susan Aloix: ty eos
Eos Amaterasu: (at the :45 minute mark)
Susan Aloix: lol pema
Susan Aloix: (like your suggestion eos)
Lugh Fehr: are you wondering while meditating?
Lugh Fehr: hihi
Pema Pera: typically when we watch thoughts arising, they are already there before we know it :)
Pema Pera: like a guest slipping into a room, without us seeing how they went through the door
Eos Amaterasu: Re stevenaia, if it were a dream or imagination you could play with that incident and question it further.... and maybe in "R"L you can do likewise? (ie, the world is using events as language, in a way....?)
stevenaia Michinaga: like a gift
Susan Aloix: eos...i like your idea there....re. going and coming....i've noticed less congestion in thought traffic after doing a lot more meditation recently........i find the traffic sounds of body ache etc to be consuming .....at times...
Susan Aloix: (hi cal)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes it's reassuring to hear/feel your body :-)
Pema Pera: following Eos' suggestion, let us all just watch our thought coming and going, during the next 90-second pause, starting in a minute or so
Susan Aloix: okay....i'm going to try 180 secs...ty Pema
--BELL--

We started to report about our experience's with Eos' exploration

Lugh Fehr: allways mockingly out of sight
Pema Pera: very restful to just let thoughts play, like children being let loose
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) pema
Aphrodite Macbain: climbing the monkey bars
Pema Pera: just watching is a funny thing . . . it brings all kinds of other things with it
Calvino Rabeni: they come with such fluidity during sitting like that ... makes me curious about the "other" times and what's going on then
Calvino Rabeni: yes same pema
Pema Pera: relaxation, shifts, new insights -- and yes, Cal, that's a great question
Pema Pera: like the difference between driving a car in a relaxed way with a broad awareness of traffic around you vs. being tense and focused mostly on the cars right in front of you
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: yes, actually I did use the word "driving" for that "normal" state recentlyh
Susan Aloix: smiles....thats a niceway of putting it...i was also thinking of a parental metaphor..that there is a growing sense of an inner authority that outcompetes even the best ideas my brains producing...there is something deeply relaxing to not have to be fully identified with the thought producer...whoever that is lol
Calvino Rabeni nods
Lugh Fehr: funny how they come seemingly from nowhere
Pema Pera: yes, Susan!
Susan Aloix: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps from the place where dreams come from
Aphrodite Macbain: or from our busy cerebral cortex

Calvino made an interesting link with early education.

Calvino Rabeni: The idea of being a factory for production of thoughts ... does that come from childhood "school" practices?
stevenaia Michinaga: the place where conciousness dwells
Aphrodite Macbain: which practices Calvino?
Lugh Fehr: they they do come from a somthing whit opiniions and stuff
Aphrodite Macbain: rules andr egulations?
Calvino Rabeni: Sitting for hours, paying attention, doing little problems, making answers to considerations placed by a teacher, etc.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah yes. directed from above
Lugh Fehr: mostly false siupid ones that it itself no that is stiupid ....so it must be comeing from moor then one place
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, external, and effortful
Calvino Rabeni: and productive
Aphrodite Macbain: rather than from within
Calvino Rabeni: with criteria for completion, and time deadlines
Aphrodite Macbain: he productive
Aphrodite Macbain: heh
Calvino Rabeni: be productive
Calvino Rabeni: homo economicus
Calvino Rabeni: is it unnatural
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. useful
Aphrodite Macbain: utilitarianism
Calvino Rabeni: relative to the gamut of what humans do with their minds, or could do, or have done throughout history?
Pema Pera: interesting point, Calvino!
Calvino Rabeni: I'm just suggesting thinking of it as a training program for certain habitual way of using the mind
Pema Pera: at the level of university education too, those who are good at taking examinations are not necessarily the same as those who are good at independent research
--BELL--

Lugh obviously was somewhere in Western Europe, judging from the time zone, and for me, too, it was time to go.  Soon afterwards, we all took off.

Lugh Fehr: well im off to ben its 5 am here and the sun will be rising soon ... dont whant to see that befor i slleep hehhe tnx for conversation i hate to leave in the middle but what the heck hehehe gn poeple :)
Susan Aloix: yeah cal - the neglect of the emotional and somatic experience is schools really does influence the tendency to think we have a *self* because we have *thoughts* and emotions and bodies are the things that get in the way
Pema Pera: bye Lugh!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Lugh sleep well
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Lugh
Pema Pera: I'm off too -- but to lunch in my case :)
Calvino Rabeni: Today I re-stacked a woodpile I'd stacked yesterday ... a friend asked why, I said "for aesthetic reason", and he said, well you could have been selling your intellectual labour
Eos Amaterasu: On that note I must also depart
Eos Amaterasu: bye all!
Calvino Rabeni: 'Fraid I'm outta here pretty soon myself
Aphrodite Macbain: what an amazing statement Cal
Susan Aloix: bye Lugh
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pema, Eos, Cal
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all. I'm getting mybeauty slep for the fashion show tomorrow
Calvino Rabeni: TO him, one way of stacking was just the same as another in terms of utilitarianism, which is the only operative value for him
Calvino Rabeni: I was HAPPY to have it be as it is now :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I hope to join you too tmarrow
Calvino Rabeni: (end of idea)
Aphrodite Macbain: right. He was missing out on something he couldn't appreciate
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I felt a little sad about that
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: nothing like a nice cord of stacked wood! I do that ith the stuff in my cupboards!
Aphrodite Macbain: or my ironing for heavens sake
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Aph
Susan Aloix: hi friday
Calvino Rabeni: And a different friend and I were considering what parts of soul "die on the vine" in the early education process
friday Trill: hi
Susan Aloix: gosh this place empties out quick
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Friday
Susan Aloix: i just got started lol
friday Trill: hell steveaia
stevenaia Michinaga: it's getting late on the east coast
Calvino Rabeni: Sorry Susan, I'd love to run with you - and I'm a slow starter too, but the dinner call is imminant
Calvino Rabeni: (and here it is)
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy dinner Cal
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Susan Aloix: lol tc cal
friday Trill: yes, have a pleasant dinner Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: It was a discussion of Waldorf schools, which are quite different, and have an interesting philosophical background
Calvino Rabeni: OK GTG :)
Calvino Rabeni: Bye all
Susan Aloix: thanks all for the wonderful conversation
friday Trill: bye
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before friday?
friday Trill: no it's my first time, guess I missed it
friday Trill: i can have another first time lol
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, we record our conversations and post them on the groups's wiki, is it ok to include your comments?
Susan Aloix: bye stevenaia :)
Susan Aloix: bye friday
friday Trill: certainly, it is fine
stevenaia Michinaga: bye susan, nice to meet you
friday Trill: bye Susan
friday Trill: thank you stevenaia, for the note, i'm sure it will help me know about this place
stevenaia Michinaga: I gave you a breif introduction in that notecard
friday Trill: i'm interested to find more discussions on sl
stevenaia Michinaga: we met 4 times a day, feel free to stop by anytime
friday Trill: thank you
stevenaia Michinaga: 7:00 and 1:00 AM and PM slt
stevenaia Michinaga: usually meet of an hour or so
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you find us
friday Trill: a friend told me about you, gave me the LM
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
friday Trill: i was not sure of the times
friday Trill: may I look around the sim?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, feel free, there is a museum next door that that members of the group made
friday Trill: stevenaia I hate to be rude, a friend is calling me now
friday Trill: I WILL be back
stevenaia Michinaga: most of the other plots are the members personal sructures
friday Trill: bye
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy