2010.03.05 19:00 - Clearing the fog and Making the Time

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, jumping into a newly open session. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined by Sharon, Steve, and Strannik.

We discuss getting to know PaB again, TSK, consciousness, PaB retreat, working group activities, dreams, fear, and awareness.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Strannik :)
Strannik Zipper: Hi!
Eliza Madrigal: Pleasure to meet you... think this is the first time :)
Strannik Zipper: I haven't been around much lately - nice to meet you
Eliza Madrigal: yes I suppose there are many new guardians since you attended regularly
Eliza Madrigal: How long has it been?
Strannik Zipper: Yes - I can't keep up!
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Strannik Zipper: I was here yesterday
Strannik Zipper: but then it was a long while before that
Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza and Strannnik
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry typo
Strannik Zipper: Hi Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Strannik is a guardian who hasn't been here in a while, aside from yesterday. I was wondering if it felt an entirely new place
Strannik Zipper: not completely
Strannik Zipper: for one thing, the old landmark worked
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI :) I was just reading that, sorry I have a bit of chat lag
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, well glad of that
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha yes
Eliza Madrigal: so then not eons
Strannik Zipper: of course I'm having viewer 2 issues
SophiaSharon Larnia: i didnt like it myself
Strannik Zipper: they'll fix it
Eliza Madrigal has no clue and waits to upgrade or try things out til all techie friends are pleased and say 'go'
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Strannik Zipper likes to ride the bleeding edge ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
Eliza Madrigal smiles... intriguing
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
Strannik Zipper: Hi Steve
Eliza Madrigal: Its been a long while since we were in a session together Steve, or at least feels that way
SophiaSharon Larnia: this isn't my usual time slot either :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to remember sundays
stevenaia Michinaga: seems there are those that pick up the empty slots...:)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I'm not on at night much... Genesis is moving so this spot will be a kind of free for all... hehehe
stevenaia Michinaga: Have we met, Strannik ?
SophiaSharon Larnia runs her hand in the ppol and smiles
Strannik Zipper: I don't think so - nice to meet you
SophiaSharon Larnia: pool
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my pleasure
Eliza Madrigal grins @ Sharon
stevenaia Michinaga: thank for your hard work Eliza, seems the group organization can be quite a complex ordeal
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: hear hear
stevenaia Michinaga: are you off to Princeton next week?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Steve that's nice of you. Thanks (and thanks too Sharon). We all do what we can and I guess I've had more time than most this year, so it is a pleasure really...
Eliza Madrigal: And yes, heading your way. Will you come for dinner?
stevenaia Michinaga: nice that each can find such a place in the group
SophiaSharon Larnia: you are Eliza????
stevenaia Michinaga: I am considering it
stevenaia Michinaga: it is always a fun time
Eliza Madrigal: yes, we're having a working group meeting for 2 days... and Pema invited those near by (smile) for dinner Friday evening
SophiaSharon Larnia: i am supposed to work, but i think i want to go anyway
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Strannik Zipper: Y'all must be East Coasters!
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes we are :))
Eliza Madrigal: I hope you'll both try :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Strannik, where do you live?
SophiaSharon Larnia: where are you Stannik???
SophiaSharon Larnia: ugh sorry typo again
stevenaia Michinaga: somewhere down south I suspect
Strannik Zipper: California
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice
stevenaia Michinaga: southern california?
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh, nice :)
Strannik Zipper: Northern
stevenaia Michinaga: very nice
Strannik Zipper: SF Bay Area

:) Strannik realizes there are interesting things in those PaB emails!  

stevenaia Michinaga: I love northern CA, are you going to the PaB retreat next month?
Eliza Madrigal will visit California for the first time in April for the pab retreat
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow theres a PaB retreat there in April :)
stevenaia Michinaga: you will love it there Eliza
Strannik Zipper: I really should check that email more often!
Eliza Madrigal: Seems many people do!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Strannik Zipper: I missed seeing that
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I think so... hah...
Eliza Madrigal: On the wiki there is a 'retreat' tab, too
Eliza Madrigal: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats
Eliza Madrigal: So there is information there about it if you'd like to see
Strannik Zipper: I might try to come up for a day - I can't do the whole week
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I think its structured that toward the end of the week people can join part time...
Strannik Zipper: I'll have to find out more about that
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) especially right in your back yard
Strannik Zipper: ah - its the opposite - must be there at the beginning
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh
Eliza Madrigal: Well that makes sense too
Strannik Zipper: right

Impromptu interview ...

Eliza Madrigal: Strannik, what brought you to PaB originally?
Strannik Zipper: I met Pema many years ago at a retreat
Strannik Zipper: I was reading some of his website, and discovered this activity
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, great. So you have a contemplative practice
Eliza Madrigal: ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: so the opposite of most of us, meet him in rl first :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, the years do go by quickly
Strannik Zipper: hehehe - exactly
Eliza Madrigal: they zip by...
Strannik Zipper: It was actually a TSK retreat, some of which is similar to PAB and Kira
Eliza Madrigal: Oh!!
Eliza Madrigal: we're reading TSK bit by bit in the Time Workshop now
Strannik Zipper: That is a good series - I actually wrote one of the chapters in Light of Knowledge
stevenaia Michinaga: do they post the log from those sessions Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Actually its in voice Steve, which is sometimes a bummer being late... but gives it a different feel I guess
stevenaia Michinaga: aww
Eliza Madrigal: How interesting Strannik. I'm resisting the urge to ask even more questions... don't want to scare you away. Hah
Strannik Zipper: I don't scare to easily ;-)
Strannik Zipper: too
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles.. hoping Strannik will elaborate :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles.. yes me too
Strannik Zipper: the chapter was called "DIMENSIONALITY AS A CULTURAL/HISTORICAL APPROACH TO TIME, SPACE AND KNOWLEDGE"
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)
Eliza Madrigal: evocative... What is 'dimensionality' to convey in that context?
Strannik Zipper: The essay explores the relationship of dimensions of space to the ways of thinking and knowing emboied in them
Strannik Zipper: er embodied
Strannik Zipper: It uses the scheme proposed by Jean Gebser in his major work
Eliza Madrigal: Hm... you know I was listening to one of Steven's audios recently, where he was discussing considering space when letting go of addictive behaviors...
Eliza Madrigal: moving things around, etc. to change the way one is relating...
Strannik Zipper: interesting
SophiaSharon Larnia: googles Jean Gebser
Eliza Madrigal: very practical.

Jean Gebster...

Eliza Madrigal: Spiral dynamics?
Strannik Zipper: One of the other TSK students has a consulting business where he uses TSK for "inner time management"
Strannik Zipper: there is some overlap to spiral dynamics, I think
Eliza Madrigal: Steve, btw, if others would like to read TSK together after the workshop ends I'm sure we could have pab sessions on it... would be really fun
SophiaSharon Larnia: his work appears to be very open-ended, but have to learn more :)
Strannik Zipper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Ge..._consciousness
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
Strannik Zipper: that section is sort of a nice summary
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats hwere I am :))
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, fantastic.
Strannik Zipper: More on TSK here:
Strannik Zipper: http://tska.info/
Strannik Zipper: And here is the applied time management aspect:
Strannik Zipper: http://www.manage-time.com/
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes people think of contemplative Knowing in a sense of going backwards somehow, but its really interesting to consider that it isn't pre-intellect but hm.... maybe as this page seems to point to a 'next step' of sorts...?
Strannik Zipper: right - an added dimension is another degree of freedom
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting here also to me is the idea of evolutionary progress being different from unfolding awareness
Strannik Zipper: Of course the guy who took that idea and developed it on steroids is Ken Wilber
SophiaSharon Larnia: limited by environment... have to give this more thought
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for the links... love the practical applications and will have reading tomorrow :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, what is the part you were reading?
Strannik Zipper: Of course Pema *actually understands* time and space :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal: that might help too I'd imagine....
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: the part that says Evidence for Gebser's model, i usually zero on anything with the word evidence it it
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe someone can fix my typos today wink wink)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, yes maybe someone will do that ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: who claimed te log?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: ;p
Eliza Madrigal: <---
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Strannik Zipper: typos are an essential part of speaking SLeze
Eliza Madrigal: I have to say that it has been a gift for Pema to elaborate on some of the ideas in the book when some of us have been confused/stuck... for instance the idea of 'feeding time into time' was really tricky for me
SophiaSharon Larnia: sleeze ? XD
Eliza Madrigal: hah... Wol calls typos SL body language
Strannik Zipper: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: that should be in our useful terms guide :)
Strannik Zipper: indeed
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, doesnt work for me i always speak SLeze
SophiaSharon Larnia: (typos)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm less likely to typo than to mix words around and carve um... incomprehensible sentences

Sharon's intense dream...

SophiaSharon Larnia: I had an awful dream this evening, that may be part of it
Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
Strannik Zipper: oh dear!
SophiaSharon Larnia: i came here because i didnt know where else to go, you know? clear my head
Eliza Madrigal: Are we helping?
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs... yes!
Strannik Zipper: were you dreaming about tax audits?
Eliza Madrigal: ::::breathe::::
Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes that would do it
SophiaSharon Larnia: grr no Strannik, but thats next hahaha
stevenaia Michinaga: now try dropping that (dream)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i just try to read meaning in everything
SophiaSharon Larnia: drop that idea too
Eliza Madrigal: ... signless nature of signs
Strannik Zipper: letting things be as they are
Strannik Zipper: well, the river of time must carry me away - nice chatting
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to chat with you also Strannik... Thanks!
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Strannik! Nice to see you :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you
Strannik Zipper: cheers

Strannik leaves and we try to face, with Sharon, what is frightening. Sharon makes a good point that we can discuss dropping and awareness and so many things, but there are 'rubber meets road' moments when conceptualizations drop away. I'm glad things lined up for us all to sign online.

Eliza Madrigal: its easy to be thrown by those things, Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: its like you're in a vulnerable spot
SophiaSharon Larnia: just saw your comment about incomprehensible sentences Eliza haha i do that in speech sometimes, like some weird kind of dyslexia
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
SophiaSharon Larnia: its hard to explain it to others isnt it
Eliza Madrigal: I honestly think if I were tested that would factor... you should see me in yoga class... all bassackwards
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I often add words to a sentence hoping it will eventually make sence when I figure out how to end it
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah Steve!!!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: like just keep going and let the sentence find its way...
stevenaia Michinaga: like group poetry, each adds a line until it ends
SophiaSharon Larnia: used to think i had a speech impediment, i think its more that my thoughts are not only linear but linear in 8 different directions, a program gone amok
stevenaia Michinaga: we did that here one night, it was very interesting
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh interesting
Eliza Madrigal giggles... thinking of 8 lines shooting out of Sharon's head full of words...
stevenaia Michinaga: I think it was Paradise, Cavino and me
SophiaSharon Larnia: eek :))
Eliza Madrigal: hah, okay, dropped that Sharon, you'll be happy to know
Eliza Madrigal: I think I read that log, Steve...
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: really entertaining.
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: and I am the last think in terms of poetry
Eliza Madrigal: I may have put most of it in a scribe even
stevenaia Michinaga: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: my dream was like too, a bunch of conversations
Eliza Madrigal: hm, a sorting dream?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been thinking a lot about the idea that our waking consciousness exists in the setting of a ˜story' and have been seeing each individual I encounter in real life as having an entire story within them, as I have my own.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been thinking too much about that
Eliza Madrigal: Well, sounds like you've been puzzling out something
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe a time for thinking too much, then relaxing that...
SophiaSharon Larnia: in the dream I heard about a hundred people talking at once
Eliza Madrigal: Oh My
stevenaia Michinaga: wow
SophiaSharon Larnia: something didnt feel right, so i said stop
Eliza Madrigal: and no sense of harmony or poetry?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Eliza Madrigal: Did they?
SophiaSharon Larnia: and it didnt stop, so i said stop, and got more upset, stop it stop it STOP
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh
Eliza Madrigal: so really an overwhelmed feeling... out of control a bit
SophiaSharon Larnia: all of a sudden deafening silence fell, and I felt a hundred head turning and lookign at ME
Eliza Madrigal: my turn to say wow
SophiaSharon Larnia: my fear exploded
SophiaSharon Larnia: and I woke up
Eliza Madrigal: exploded? how so?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I felt awareness there
stevenaia Michinaga: quite a dream
Eliza Madrigal: !
stevenaia Michinaga: much contol (of the crowd)
Eliza Madrigal: intense Sharon... Can you say more about awareness there?
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no it felt like they were talking to other people i couldnt see each one telling their story to someone, soft voices, loud voices, deep pitch, high pitch, sing-song candence and monotone
SophiaSharon Larnia: and when i yell STOP its like they woke and and heads swiveled to me
Eliza Madrigal: beyond stories... as you were saying this morning
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant relay the emotions well here
Eliza Madrigal: you woke them up from stories?4.
SophiaSharon Larnia: shakes
Eliza Madrigal: a really neat dream though, Sharon, intense.. strong.... but hmmm
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive had dreams like it before, but like i was hearing people around me
SophiaSharon Larnia: but i meant stop as in stop scaring me, not, stop and wake up
SophiaSharon Larnia: stop the dream
SophiaSharon Larnia: my fear is what bothers me
Eliza Madrigal: thinking of what we were talking about with Strannik, there is a kind of next level I guess.. when you can see through the stories, the dreams, etc...

SophiaSharon Larnia: i wasnt seeing through anything i was just scared
SophiaSharon Larnia: someday id like to hear the story
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: it felt in my face
Eliza Madrigal: may take a few days
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I hope you will be able to rest
Eliza Madrigal will need you tomorrow at the scribe session ... hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: or write it down

Rezzing the singing bowl...

SophiaSharon Larnia: we talk about dropping fear here
SophiaSharon Larnia: and its a wonderful thought for contemplation, consideration, personal growth
SophiaSharon Larnia: until its in your face
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's why I wondered about the element of awareness... when awareness arises on its own in the midst of or even provoked by a fear or circumstance....
Eliza Madrigal: that is a powerful turn
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: it felt like something was in the room, standing near where i was sleeping
SophiaSharon Larnia: i felt defenseless, vulnerable
Eliza Madrigal: :(
Eliza Madrigal: similar to sleep paralysis?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sort of
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: remembering fox talking about hearing... sound being a characteristic
SophiaSharon Larnia: but didnt feel the typical numbess, return to waking up

Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if we all might take a five minute meditation together... like paradise might... would it help a bit you think...?
Eliza Madrigal: I'd be happy to keep time
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) yes it would thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: and the focus?
Eliza Madrigal: Okay... let's begin in just a few minutes
Eliza Madrigal: that's a good question Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: how about simply letting go of the stress that surrounds us
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: perfect
Eliza Madrigal: Okay.... I'll ring the bell three times to begin, and one to end :)
stevenaia Michinaga: with each breath we can imagine the fog of stress dicipating
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh, yes very nice... clearer and clearer
Eliza Madrigal: Settle in...
Eliza Madrigal:

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." Buddha

SophiaSharon Larnia: wow 5 mins already :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Eliza ...... thank you
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: feels like a drink of water...
stevenaia Michinaga: much can happen in 5 minutes
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, Steve
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: I love how thoughts arise and change, I ended up visualizing my Tai Chi for part of it
Eliza Madrigal: Nice
SophiaSharon Larnia: very nice, I think that would be good for me too:)
stevenaia Michinaga: after breathing through the begining
SophiaSharon Larnia: I saw moving fog, it was starting to swirl in one direction 

SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh caps sorry!!!
stevenaia Michinaga: caps happen
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: Think you'll be able to rest, Sharon?
Eliza Madrigal: I hope so
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thanks
Eliza Madrigal: :) (((Sharon))) Glad we could be here tonight
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too ((Eliza))
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant believe youre going to nj i didnt know that
Eliza Madrigal: (we should hug steve too) (((Steve))))
Eliza Madrigal: heh
SophiaSharon Larnia: ((Steve))
stevenaia Michinaga: I was close enough
SophiaSharon Larnia: hugs
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
stevenaia Michinaga: hugs back
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was just thinking that Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I really hope you both will come for dinner... meet Storm and Saki...
stevenaia Michinaga: do you know where the dinner will be?
Eliza Madrigal: not a clue
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll ask Pema for a time and place
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: something downtown?
Eliza Madrigal: We have a list of things that each meeting we keep putting off... so the idea is 'focus' :)
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: I guess so Steve... have suggestions?
stevenaia Michinaga: should be an intersting and productive few days
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I don;t know the area well enough
Eliza Madrigal: yes I'd think so... pema will be in japan for a long stretch later in the year I think... so I think we'd like to have a real handle on things... especially getting the handbook together
stevenaia Michinaga: handbook?
Eliza Madrigal: the techier members have been working on making the wiki clearer too...
Eliza Madrigal: some things we get used to and don't realize that new people can't find things, etc.
Eliza Madrigal nods...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope a lot can get done in meeting, rather than in email back and forth
Eliza Madrigal: like the page showed you
Eliza Madrigal: is part of the handbook... so that at any point, say, if I am working ft at some point....
Eliza Madrigal: or someone has an emergency, etc
Eliza Madrigal: someone can SEE exactly (or close to exactly) what do to
Eliza Madrigal: to fill in for that person, etc
Eliza Madrigal: there is a Chronicles page, a Guardian mentors page, a page for welcoming new guardians and scribes, etc
Eliza Madrigal: like operations book
Eliza Madrigal: these things seem like they'd be simple but the little details run away...
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed!
stevenaia Michinaga: yeah
Eliza Madrigal: and we're not all pema who somehow keeps up
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yea its amazing
Eliza Madrigal: hah, ws just writing that!
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant even remember what im doing the next day sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes.... he calls it a 'bean counter mentality'...
SophiaSharon Larnia: have to keep checking the notes on the fridge
Eliza Madrigal: I'm trying to develop it but one might need math... hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: I make a list, then look at it 2 weeks late, see what I missed
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Eliza Madrigal: or make a 'have done' list
Eliza Madrigal: or better 'have not done and will forget again'
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get to bed...
stevenaia Michinaga: night Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have things to do too, night Eliza and Steve :))
Eliza Madrigal: early morning appointment and I want to be fresh for the scribe session tomorrow. Nice to spend time with you both :)
stevenaia Michinaga: good dreams
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, sweet dreams all!!!
Eliza Madrigal: Nite
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Sophia