2010.03.06 07:00 - inspiration in sl, and fighting TSK

The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

--- secondlife as source for recommendation and inspiration

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
Yakuzza Lethecus: morning
Calvino Rabeni: hi, good morning
Yakuzza Lethecus: not really for me but nice to hear :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s a good afternoon so far
Yakuzza Lethecus: had a nice conversation before
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: I'm curious about the conversation
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, it was about the use of 2nd life and how ppl inspire each other pretty much
Yakuzza Lethecus: i had a few book recommendations from that person and went to places i usually woulnd´t go to in real life
Yakuzza Lethecus: alike pab
Yakuzza Lethecus: so it wasn´t very deep but it always got frequent ways to elaborate apon afterwards
Yakuzza Lethecus: still one of my main concerns is how to really elaborate on the things i am listening and be exposed to around here
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you read the book of change by the way ?
Calvino Rabeni: not recently - I remember thinking about it yesterday - lake over earth
Yakuzza Lethecus: i haven´t read it so far
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zon
Zon Quar: hi again
Yakuzza Lethecus: i barely make it over the introductionary chapters of book
Yakuzza Lethecus: s

------ Oh, here starts my issue on the understanding of TSK again

Yakuzza Lethecus: so TSK is kinda unique and only because its discussed weekly
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i noticed that i don´t read the tsk book tensionless enough
Yakuzza Lethecus: i always come to thoughts like ,,is this really supposed to be understandable?"
Yakuzza Lethecus: and hang on during i read
Yakuzza Lethecus: so that´s really kinda retarding during the reading on the book
Yakuzza Lethecus: and those ,,expectations and prejudical thoughts" are exactly whats for me sensefull to drop
Yakuzza Lethecus: it happens that i carry secondary thoughts so often and premade opinions over some topic that i can´t fall into something new
Yakuzza Lethecus: but how to preserve the ,,positive tension"
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s obviously not only related to TSK for me, it´s a general issue that i notice again and again on me
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Calvino Rabeni: When is the positive tension at risk?
Zon Quar: what is TSK ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: time space knowledge
Zon Quar: ah..k
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a book by tarthang tulku which is discussed wednesdays in the time workshop
Zon Quar: yes..ii intend to read it
Zon Quar: is it good
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, you don´t want to hear my answer :)
Zon Quar: i do
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t understand it so far :)
Zon Quar: is the language difficult ?
Calvino Rabeni: *nothing* ? :)
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s really in a hard language for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: and i don´t know how to preserve a positive tention during reading something in general, so reading something like that book is a fight on 2 fronts
Calvino Rabeni: the english adds another layer of difficulty
Yakuzza Lethecus: 1st not to start even thinking ,,i want to finish at least the next 10 pages" which i even do sometimes reading books with understandable english
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i don´t believe that´s common english
Yakuzza Lethecus: every englishman suffers from the same issues i suppose
Calvino Rabeni: What is the situation with the positive tension?
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s whats supposed to keep me motivated when i do anything
Zon Quar: i found when i started my "spiritual studies" that i was drawn to a book, i couldn understand it but it was magnetic, so i read it like listening to music, nott rying to understand but get the aroma of it; then iread simpler books and later came back to this book and got it
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the way, where are you from zon ?
Zon Quar: finland
Zon Quar: and u ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: germany
Calvino Rabeni: You got the TSK book, before joining the Kira workshop, Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no
Yakuzza Lethecus: i got the copy during the workshop from pema
Yakuzza Lethecus: he´s allowed to give a digitigal copy away
Zon Quar: can it be shared, os is it useless without reading the book itself ?
Calvino Rabeni: I think, it is only Pema can give it away
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: you can send pema message
Zon Quar: but is it useful if u havne tread teh book first ?
Calvino Rabeni: the digital copy is the same text as the book
Calvino Rabeni: is that what you are asking, or are you asking, can we discuss it without reading the book first?
Calvino Rabeni: And it is also interesting to discuss what it is like to read the book
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods especailly for me
Calvino Rabeni: Or, different ways to read the book
Yakuzza Lethecus: since i constantly don´t have the feeling to understand it
Zon Quar: sry gtg
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Zon
Zon Quar: quickly
Zon Quar: bye
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye zon
Calvino Rabeni: THere are lots of ways to read - which ones do you think are effective for this difficult book?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no idea yet
Calvino Rabeni: So you've tried a few different ways to go about it, with different results.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i always fall back into the same routines of thinking
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t make me read it neutral
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: The thing I think about reading, is first, can I read it in a satisfactory way given my normal habits of reading
Calvino Rabeni: If not, then I'd try to read it in a non-normal way and see if that made any difference
Yakuzza Lethecus: i even used a text to speech program for it
Calvino Rabeni: Given the hypothesis that the manner of reading it, will have some effect on my understanding
Calvino Rabeni: The thing to vary, is oneself
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand, one might consider how the book was *meant* to be used
Calvino Rabeni: A book is like a person reaching out a hand - in a particular way, and to connect with it requires adaptation to that also.
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, the TSK book might not be designed to be read like a textbook
Calvino Rabeni: It might not be designed to be read like an essay, a series of ideas to be understood
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just try to drop my thoughts about it
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it's like a collection of poems
Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not to think about it and read it again
Yakuzza Lethecus: but the words like great knowledge already trigger associations
Calvino Rabeni: And it could be read after doing a period of meditation,
Calvino Rabeni: or maybe,first thing on waking in the morning
Yakuzza Lethecus: reading it and ,,being seeing" where those associations leed me too is propably one step
Calvino Rabeni: when the mind is not fully formed into patterns already
Calvino Rabeni: Or, it could be read like the I Ching - just find some one little thing at random, and then sit with that for awhile, independent of any "big idea" about the whole
Calvino Rabeni: Or it could be read like picking cherries from a cherry tree
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i don´t like ,,fighting" to understand it
Calvino Rabeni: just find the 1 or 2 most appealing, juicy bits in a chapter, and savor it, and forget the rest
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that is what I'm suggesting to let go of
Yakuzza Lethecus: because i will always have the feeling of fighting reading it
Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go
Calvino Rabeni: If you practice poetry reading, or I Ching, then both of those do not treat the text as a big block of stuff to be understood
Calvino Rabeni: so it could help to read TSK the same way
Yakuzza Lethecus: i agree