2010.03.17 01:00 - The Yoga of "non-individualistic thinking"

The Guardian for this meeting was Bolonath Crystal. The comments are by Bolonath Crystal.


    Bolonath Crystal: namaste cal :)
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Bolonath
    Bolonath Crystal: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: how are you?
    Calvino Rabeni: I am well - I had been sitting there and meditating
    Calvino Rabeni: I had decided to "drop" the thing called "using the computer"
    Bolonath Crystal: cool :)
    Bolonath Crystal: and then i came and spoiled it ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: Probably 30 minutes ago :)
    Bolonath Crystal decides to use the computer and drop the rest
    Calvino Rabeni: That presents a little problem about when to come back :)
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, happened to me, too

a different quality of thinking

    Calvino Rabeni: It is pretty relaxing when all that is dropped, and then coming back I was reluctant - a feeling of a mixture of fear and excitement
    Bolonath Crystal: imo time is a mental product. time stops to happen as mind stops thinking. i like these timeless times :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes I do some thinking in the state I think you call not thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: But it has a different quality
    Bolonath Crystal: i probably wouldn't call a state not thinking, if i'm thinking in it. but i know what you mean with different quality thinking
    --BELL--
    Bolonath Crystal: it is not ego-centered
    Bolonath Crystal: "para-individualistic" thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: I was just considering that.
    Calvino Rabeni: So it's mental activity happening outside that familiar circle
    Calvino Rabeni: that i call "I"
    Bolonath Crystal: yogis talk about "paramatman"
    Calvino Rabeni: So "I" am not doing it - but there is some cognition going on
    Calvino Rabeni: and the results are evident
    Calvino Rabeni: so my interpretation is it is just another non-identified "I" doing the thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: and perhaps not using the usual equipment
    Bolonath Crystal: the bhagavad gita says, that the true self never acts. actions are reactions of the elements of life.
    Bolonath Crystal: there are many ways of interpretation
    Bolonath Crystal: the experience is what counts

interpretations of what happens have an effect on what happens

    Calvino Rabeni: The interpretation however, has an effect on what happens
    Bolonath Crystal: (but in my personal interpretation the process of self-identifikation also plays a major part)
    Bolonath Crystal: ups, sorry for english-german mixture *g*
    Calvino Rabeni: My interpretation can determine whether I credit or ignore this thinking that is from the "not i"
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, right
    Bolonath Crystal thinks about reasons to ignore it
    Calvino Rabeni: This is one reason I've been proposing various things in PaB that probably shouldn't be taken literally - metaphors for the projections of intelligence into non-identified realms
    Bolonath Crystal: that is imo the way the "gods" (as distinct persons) were made
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I agree. What reasons to ignore, do you come up with?
    Bolonath Crystal: projections of the over-personal into a person
    Bolonath Crystal: well, entanglement would be such a reason
    Bolonath Crystal: i ignore what i don't want to hear ;)
    --BELL--
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Bolonath Crystal: while the higher self wants to drop everything to get some inner freedom, the ego drops saliva and just wants to have sensoric satisfaction
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste steve

how to include projections into the search for truth

    Calvino Rabeni: Well, the "self" got a lot smaller once the "gods" and other projectual sources of intelligence were categorically excluded
    Calvino Rabeni: Although maybe freer within that smaller domain
    Calvino Rabeni: A master of a small kingdom
    Calvino Rabeni: WHich in a sense, is the function of ego
    Bolonath Crystal: but nevertheless... "bhakti", the way of worshipping, is still regarded as the "fastest path"
    Bolonath Crystal: it simply thakes more devotion than i have to offer
    Bolonath Crystal: -h*
    Bolonath Crystal: so i prefer the smaller kingdom *smile*
    Calvino Rabeni: I like having a permeable boundary in that regard
    Calvino Rabeni: And in a somewhat rationalistic manner have budgeted a portion of my time for explorations and projects outside the kingdom
    Calvino Rabeni: but I would not call that anything like a bhakti path
    Calvino Rabeni: More like, the king goes on expeditions to the hinterland
    Bolonath Crystal: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: i tried something similar. in practise i am sometimes using projections, but i am always aware, that they are projections
    Calvino Rabeni: Sleep time is available for those expeditions, given it is not already booked with productive duties
    Bolonath Crystal: dream yoga doesn't really work with me
    Bolonath Crystal: allthough i try
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes those brief pauses - like the one in the pavilion - provide a mandate - or at least an opportunity - of something to follow up later
    Bolonath Crystal: for me meditation is still the best way to reach the state of para-individualistic thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: Same here
    Bolonath Crystal: the state of not-thinking i reach only occasionally
    --BELL--
    Bolonath Crystal: i'm too lazy in practicing
    Calvino Rabeni: No :)
    Bolonath Crystal: no?
    Calvino Rabeni: not lazy ... something else perhaps ?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, i always find excuses ;))
    Calvino Rabeni: I often find those states of meditation provide me with a motivation
    Calvino Rabeni: the open a door a little, and even suggest a new technique for practice
    Calvino Rabeni: see, so I have motive, means, and opportunity :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the only thing that gets in the way, is forgetting.

what is samsara? (Hindu remix)

    Bolonath Crystal: at the moment i am very entangled in samsara. but i hope to change that during my retreat in april
    Calvino Rabeni: What is an element of samsara?
    Bolonath Crystal: "things" in every form
    Bolonath Crystal: thought waves
    Bolonath Crystal: "chitta vritti", movements of the mental, as patanjali called them
    Bolonath Crystal: in his yoga-sutras, patanjali says "yoga (the union with the true self) happens, when mental movements stop"
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you know a good english translation of the yoga sutras?
    Bolonath Crystal: no, sorry. i have them in a german translation here
    Calvino Rabeni: yes I thought you would
    Bolonath Crystal: it is the one from swami vivekananda
    Bolonath Crystal: vivekananda tought in america. i would be surprised, if there is no english version of his writings
    Calvino Rabeni: Certainly likely it exists yes
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: Time for me to go - 3:17 AM - thanks for the sit and conversation
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Bolonath Crystal: nite cal, om shanti
    stevenaia Michinaga: I leaned much in my reading of the things you discussed
    Bolonath Crystal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: new words and hindu concepts that Iw as unfamiliar with
    Bolonath Crystal: oh, sorry. but please simply ask, if i use some unfamiliar words
    Bolonath Crystal: i'll be happy to explain
    stevenaia Michinaga: I di, I ask google
    stevenaia Michinaga: do
    Bolonath Crystal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: allows me to read the basics as a begining
    Bolonath Crystal: patanjali's yoga sutras are a very good basis, i think
    stevenaia Michinaga: I learn much from listening, I'm glad I did not interrupt the "flow
    Bolonath Crystal: spiritual and un-religious at the same time
    stevenaia Michinaga: In my two years of yoga as excercise I noticed changes
    stevenaia Michinaga: but it was not a course of study
    Bolonath Crystal: adding your own thoughts to others wouldn't interrupt the flow, steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I understand, but as I was waking, I was confortable reading in paralell
    Bolonath Crystal: many people who practise yoga regularly notice a change in their lives
    stevenaia Michinaga: strangle for a serise of reason, some of which I have learned from yoga I have been doing Tai Chi for the past year
    stevenaia Michinaga: *strangely
    stevenaia Michinaga: I senced a time to move on
    stevenaia Michinaga: some of which was what I learned here
    stevenaia Michinaga: over the past two years
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: :) i am sure we all have good (karmic) reasons to be here
    stevenaia Michinaga: for me it is finding "clothes that fit" what is already inside
    stevenaia Michinaga: so it'snice to be exposed to "new things" and then understand that you can wear those idea quite comfortably
    --BELL--
    Bolonath Crystal: it is a very creative thing to express the inner truth in any outer symbols
    Bolonath Crystal: very challenging
    Bolonath Crystal: i feel enriched by learning all those new ways of exoression in this group
    Bolonath Crystal: expression*
    Bolonath Crystal: and also nice to see, how often different tools of expressing that lead to the same conclusions :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, so much history of humanity seeking and learning that gets shared there
    Bolonath Crystal nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: ideads from thousnad of years ago are discussed and are so applicaibale to today
    Bolonath Crystal: and sharing is a process of giving and taking. i very much appreciste the openness here to new thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: new thoughts that have been thought about for for a very long time by others
    stevenaia Michinaga: and some that have not as well
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, lol, just what i thought at the moment
    Bolonath Crystal: "new" thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: the diversity of this group is wonderful
    Bolonath Crystal: yes :)
    Bolonath Crystal: sorry, i have to go back to rl
    stevenaia Michinaga: n.p., the sun is rising here
    Bolonath Crystal: oh :)
    Bolonath Crystal: good morning :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: and good evening to you
    Bolonath Crystal: om shanti, steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: 6:40 am here