2010.03.18 19:00 - Finding the Space to Open

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Calvino, Stevenaia, and Lucinda 

Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
Paradise Tennant: how are you tonight :)
Calvino Rabeni: hi para :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good - I have a couple friends who call just at 6:59
Calvino Rabeni: Ok, done
Paradise Tennant: no worries ..
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And you ? What's most interesting to do here today / night?
Paradise Tennant: smiles I am very well thank :)
Paradise Tennant: hmmm I bought some land and have been playing with it .. that is actually very engaging ..always suspected building was the most addictive part of sl :)
Calvino Rabeni: I'm feeling pretty flexible tonight (mentally) :)
Paradise Tennant: the sheer unfettered creativity .. that is so accessible :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: flexible is good :)
Calvino Rabeni: So you have some creativity stirred up, that's great
Paradise Tennant: yes ...
Paradise Tennant: actually we should maybe talk about flexibility ...
Paradise Tennant: I would like to reflect on it for a while ..
Calvino Rabeni: There is ample time :)
Paradise Tennant: I guess I have had a couple situations lately were I have felt compelled to really be structured .. unyielding ..even .. and it has left me feeling a bit rigid .. so flexibility would be a good counterpoint
Calvino Rabeni: Being unyielding was probably beneficial in those situations
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes I feel most mentally flexible, after "clearing" through some kind of discipline.
Paradise Tennant: yes but it leaves you feeling strained ...there are times when it is absolutely necessary to say no .. but there has to be a way of approaching that without .emotional tension ..
Paradise Tennant: what kind of discipline :)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure, for me there's often more emotional tension in holding onto things that aren't necessary, than there is in saying "no" and simplifying
Calvino Rabeni: An example is wanting to do too many interesting activities
Calvino Rabeni: Like, should I host a conversation cafe or not
Paradise Tennant: and then feeling over booked ...?
Calvino Rabeni: I'd really like to do it, but it would take time to prepare, and then I'd feel a conflict between that and some other things I committed myself to emotionally
Paradise Tennant: kk
Calvino Rabeni: There's different ways to be "over". Not just time, but for example, the ability to be creative doesn't always seem limitless
Calvino Rabeni: so if I "spend" it on preparing for a conversation cafe, then I am concerned doing some other activity will be more mechanical less creative
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Paradise Tennant: so if you use up your energy on one project therre is less for the next ?
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it seems that way. Then I can "recharge" but it takes time
Calvino Rabeni: The "energy management" thing is not always really evident to me
Paradise Tennant: i find I have more energy .. if I am disciplined in how i think..
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, I might imagine that an opportunity will wear me down, but find out afterwards it was the opposite. And then, I can remember in the past it was the same way - so I know to do it, even if I "don't feel like it" :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the discipline can keep one from getting dissipated somehow
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Recently I'm considering "procrastination"
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: another worthy topic .. maybe we should wait a bit lol
Calvino Rabeni: :) I agree, let's put it off till later ! :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps your point is well taken - I like to skip around, perhaps too much :)
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: I guess ..one of the huge benefits of meditation is that it does allow us to tame our "monkey" minds and that makes just everyting easier ..
Paradise Tennant: focusing on tasks with complete attention but then being able to drop them and move on ..no longer absorbed in preoccupation
Paradise Tennant: which is very draining that whole incessant ..mental chatter :)
Calvino Rabeni: That is an interesting metaphor about the taming of the monkey
Paradise Tennant: particularly it you let it be negative in any manner :)
Calvino Rabeni: Do you think it's possible to be "not negative"?
Paradise Tennant: yes !
Paradise Tennant: I do .. and have been able to .. have long bouts of .. little or no negativity :)
Paradise Tennant: all in all highly recommend it because it just makes life lighter .. and easier and shinier in a way
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Paradise Tennant: when I find i am getting negative I just stop and say to myself well there is a good chance this is all a dream in your head .. do you want to have a happy dream or a dark unhappy dream ..your choice :) and really it is .. a choice we make
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, the chinese saying is "water the white seed" - yesterday I heard an american version - "feed the white dog, not the black one"
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. I have a white dog :)
Calvino Rabeni: heh :)
Calvino Rabeni: To me, the negative and positive are mixed "fractally" - meaning, each point in reality has both in mixture.
Paradise Tennant: hmm not sure I understand
Calvino Rabeni: I don't much relate to any "thing" being negative or positive overall
Paradise Tennant: which is a state a balance
Calvino Rabeni: And don't so much relate to "control oriented" ideas about meditation
Paradise Tennant: ok what is control oriented ?
Calvino Rabeni: LIke, there's nothing to tame, nothing to be rid of, etc.
Paradise Tennant: so no monkey mind in reality
Paradise Tennant: lol only the perception of a monkey mind ? lol
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: No monkey mind - just a true mind that needs some space around it to open up
Paradise Tennant: well those are all good thoughts :)
Paradise Tennant: errr not just good .. hmm balanced thoughts :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: how do you find the space :) to open .. what is your practise :)
Calvino Rabeni: Today's Cafh class had some nice elements. I'm not sure it answers your question, but
Calvino Rabeni: I was reflecting on the experience.
Calvino Rabeni: So I think, my practice is pretty similar for a variety of the "techniques"
Calvino Rabeni: A big space seems to open up of its own accord, I mean as a felt sense, and then whatever happens in it is in some way blessed. Not that I'm a christian in that way however.
Calvino Rabeni: I'm happy for the monkeys to do whatever they really like to do within that space
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes however, the meditation involves looking beyond oneself
Paradise Tennant: today's caft class' nice elements were ..?
Calvino Rabeni: as if addressing a greater intelligence. We don't have to apply labels or decide exactly where it is
Paradise Tennant: prayer
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that world might be appropriate - however it could be seen as one's own unconscious, or intuition, or the parts of one's intelligence that overlap and move through the world, etc.
Calvino Rabeni: So if the labels help, then good, but if they limit the idea of what is possible, then not so useful
Calvino Rabeni: What I noticed today, is a sense of the usefuless of "sacrifice" in that activity
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: sacrifice .. or the concept of putting others first ?
Calvino Rabeni: Sacrifice as a psychological or spiritual motif.
Calvino Rabeni: It means, one has the intent to encounter the divine, and give it an offering.
Calvino Rabeni: That offering has to be something important to oneself
Calvino Rabeni: And to give it up makes it possible to receive something greater
Calvino Rabeni: It's similar to - the full cup can't receive - the cup is emptied into the divine, opening a space for something greater
Paradise Tennant: what do you sacrifice ?
Calvino Rabeni: It would be, for example, a favorite aspect of self - one of the things about oneself that is an "attachment"
Paradise Tennant: so something that gratifies the ego
Calvino Rabeni: OK, for example, suppose you had dialogue with a greater intelligence, and you're willing to admit that fact
Calvino Rabeni: and the intelligence says - give me your very best idea about some question - and you know the risk is there for it to be challenged or taken away
Calvino Rabeni: even something legitimately gratifying
Calvino Rabeni: Like ones' best-faith intention
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, something that seems positive :)
Calvino Rabeni: Not the junk you want to get rid of :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: what is your best faith intention ? :)
Calvino Rabeni: There are many mythic stories about this - about when people were poor, and called to give away what little they had - and then they found out they had given it to a diety (who was in disguise, so they wouldn't do it in hopes of reward).
Calvino Rabeni: And they they found themselves wealthy in some way.
Paradise Tennant: so giving up is more powerful than dropping ?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know what possibilities "dropping" has for everyone, but for me, it's usually letting go of something of lesser importance that I've gotten attached to in some way mentally
Calvino Rabeni: Kind of house-cleaning I suppose
Paradise Tennant: yes dropping the good stuff is always harder .. attachment to the wonderous .. is the more .. binding ...
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
stevenaia Michinaga: how are you tonigh?
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise, Cal
Paradise Tennant: smiles .hmm trying for balanced.. open ..unattached ... blessed :) the trail of our discussion .. :)
Calvino Rabeni: Feeling rather relaxed and focused, after a day that had its periods of anything but that :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I do enjoy the "book jacket" summery
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: The turning point today was perhaps, the Cafh class at Kira, where I really enjoyed letting someone else run the meditation and just relax into it
Paradise Tennant: what is cafh
stevenaia Michinaga: I read the backgound on it
Calvino Rabeni: And "dropped" perhaps the feeling of being responsible to assemble the world in some form of acceptable order
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure what to make of it
stevenaia Michinaga: no small task, Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: :) that's what people say - not sure what to make of it :)
Calvino Rabeni: It's like when a muscle is tense, involuntarily,and then somehow you feel into it and regain the ability to release it
Calvino Rabeni: it is actually an easier state of being
Calvino Rabeni: but took awareness to attain
Calvino Rabeni: however I wouldn't say it takes "work" or effort
Paradise Tennant: you mentioned earllier there are techniques ?? such as ??
Calvino Rabeni: The class has a funny kind of meditation he is teaching
Paradise Tennant: who is teaching ?
Calvino Rabeni: Vector Marksman is the avatar's name
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.cafh.org/
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...178&Itemid=205
Calvino Rabeni: He has his own web site in addition
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.seedsofunfolding.org/
Calvino Rabeni: There are instructions at http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...179&Itemid=206
Paradise Tennant: thanks !
Calvino Rabeni: I like doing that in the group at Kira - there aren't any other guided meditation activities I participate in within SL,
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it happens informally though
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Occasionally if there are only a couple attendees at the pavilion here we will do a sit that is longer than 90 seconds.
Paradise Tennant: would you two like to do a guided meditation now .. I will have to log soon but it might be a great way to wind it down :)
stevenaia Michinaga: was this the first session Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: At first it seemed a bit weird to "meditate" at PAB if I'm the only one "here", but it turned out to be good sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: This is the third Cafh class today
Calvino Rabeni: *was
Calvino Rabeni: There are 5 more scheduled
Paradise Tennant: all during the day ?
stevenaia Michinaga: Yes Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: Thursdays 2pmSLT
Calvino Rabeni: A difficult time for some I suppose
Paradise Tennant: yes sigh impossible for me :)
Calvino Rabeni: And it uses voice, which can be relaxing
Calvino Rabeni: Sorry Para :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles cool no typos !
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Calvino Rabeni: Also you can close your eyes and relax the body, very different than the posture of typing
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: well thanks you two .. I am going to have trundle off to bed ..or I will be a slug in the morning .. good night :) big wave :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good night - dream well :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I will be in Princeton tomarrow
stevenaia Michinaga: dinner with the working group
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. of opened blessed spaces :)
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
stevenaia Michinaga: night PAradise
Paradise Tennant: wow lucky you steve ..enjoy and say hello for me :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: :)))))))
Calvino Rabeni: Are you near Princeton already?
stevenaia Michinaga: about 70 minutes
Calvino Rabeni: I still have clear memories of the spaces there
Calvino Rabeni: my mental virtual reality
stevenaia Michinaga: the city?
stevenaia Michinaga: it's very quaint considering what resides there
Calvino Rabeni: Quite a system, this brain thing - were I to describe it textually it might take the rest of the year to complete the task
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, pictures and 1000 word
stevenaia Michinaga: sI sispect 2 people can describe the same image and they could appear quite different to two other people
Calvino Rabeni: Well it's pretty virtual - I wonder how many actual titles I could recall of the specific books in the office shelves
Calvino Rabeni: That would be a kind of digitalized recall - missing the coloring etc.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lucinda
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Was the tree outside the window, missing a limb in a recent pruning
Lucinda Lavender: hello
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, make self at home, Lucinda :)
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been ehre beofre?
stevenaia Michinaga: *before
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Lucinda Lavender: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: welcome back
Lucinda Lavender: thank you
Calvino Rabeni: Last sunday we had a session with one other visitor - it was a rich mix
stevenaia Michinaga: what were the topics?
Calvino Rabeni: dreaming, consciousness, neuro, evolution
stevenaia Michinaga: the ones the other morning were very interesting Cal, a number if Hundu themes I was not aware of
stevenaia Michinaga: *of
stevenaia Michinaga: *Hindu
stevenaia Michinaga: it's true, you never misspell in voice
Calvino Rabeni: Voices have their own mixed qualities
stevenaia Michinaga: was there any thoughts how dreaming and consciousness relate... or do not?
Calvino Rabeni: I recall, one idea was that waking is a constrained subset of the dreaming mind, rather than something different, or dreaming being an inhibited state
Lucinda Lavender: AS I remember Calvino spoke of how the waking mind is a subset of the dreaming mind
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: the dawn between dreaming and consciousness,
Lucinda Lavender: I shared about how in dreaming in darkenss we listen as the energies expose themselves
Calvino Rabeni: Lucinda has a long time practice with dreams, and as I understand it there are analytical aspects, but more importantly, a contemplative way of encountering it more intimately
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a lovely dance with your dreams
Lucinda Lavender: yes something I am very thankful for.
Lucinda Lavender: I have participated in a form called dream circle.
stevenaia Michinaga: a dance is analytic yet very expressive and and flowing
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: form of ...what?
Lucinda Lavender: we try not to be too analytical tho that is a challenge
stevenaia Michinaga: can you explain "form called dream circle."
Lucinda Lavender: we see if we can weave the dreams together as a way of listening to the most universal message there
Calvino Rabeni: A dream circle is a community of practice - people who get together with intent and skill to achieve a certain understanding
Calvino Rabeni: and with known ways of investigating together
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, sounds familiar
Calvino Rabeni: I think it takes a long time to develop
Lucinda Lavender: a stone is passed around and the dreams are spoken then woven together
stevenaia Michinaga: like the taking stick?
Lucinda Lavender: yes exactly. I am curious about play as being as well.
stevenaia Michinaga: the framework seem similar, a relaxed and eventually tusting place to listen, learn and speak your thoughts
Calvino Rabeni: I wonder what it would be like in PAB to have everybody put their focus on the same "object" of consciousness, and then do weaving like the dream circle does with a dream...
stevenaia Michinaga: there are time when the group is very unfocused, and other where the group speaks volumes on a very fouced topic
Lucinda Lavender: There is discussion amoungst the dreamers to step back from mental activity and feel our pulse as we listen for a blending between the brain and the heart
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it is he very nature of that process that provids for very interesting topics to arise
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds like a very generative practice
Lucinda Lavender: allowing thinking and divine wisdom to merge
Calvino Rabeni: This takes finding just the right "distance"
Calvino Rabeni: not too tight, not too loose
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
stevenaia Michinaga: distance to and from what?
stevenaia Michinaga: each other?
Calvino Rabeni: The idea of divine wisdom, is a creation given to the group's activity
Calvino Rabeni: From the material, I would say
Calvino Rabeni: A balance of engagement
Calvino Rabeni: and of emotion
Calvino Rabeni: I think that's true of good listening also
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Like intimate communication
Lucinda Lavender: it is described as universal love, for nature, creation, humanity, beingness.
Calvino Rabeni: Or appreciating a work of art, if you experiment with distance, the quality changes
Calvino Rabeni: You bring that openness to which Lucinda is referring
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, very nice description, thank you
Calvino Rabeni: I think there's an optimum distance
Calvino Rabeni: too close, you merge, you forget yourself
Calvino Rabeni: to far away, there's a disconnecteion
Lucinda Lavender: is that why you are called listener?
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m not sure other than it "fits"
Calvino Rabeni: In the chinese Lojong proverbs, there's an advice to treat everything as if it were a dream - that could have a lot of meanings, don't you think?
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, it says, whatever way of knowing you have learned about actual dreams, you can apply that to waking life also
Calvino Rabeni: I think it points to the "expanded" conscious state we were speaking of earlier
Calvino Rabeni: Which is an opening
stevenaia Michinaga: it give you a dream-like persective on how you treat "everything"
Calvino Rabeni: Dream-like as in .... ?
Lucinda Lavender: full of possibility?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes! :)
stevenaia Michinaga: how you look at a dream.... looking at non-dream experience the same way
stevenaia Michinaga: with wonder and a desire to look for meaning
Calvino Rabeni: Yes :)
Calvino Rabeni: And a feeling of participation - in the sense that we have a creative role in what appears
Lucinda Lavender: When I had a big dream on Sept. 11 I concluded the dream with singing"Both Sides Now"
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: In my view, there are many "contemplative arts" that have their basic skills and practices in common
stevenaia Michinaga: I must depart
Calvino Rabeni: Nice visiting, Stevenaia, say hi to the WG tomorrow
Lucinda Lavender: nice to meet...
Calvino Rabeni: Have a good visit
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, thanks
Calvino Rabeni: And sleep well
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: I have a question, does the quiet time start whe it is first announced or when it says thank you?
Calvino Rabeni: there is a bell - when it says the first thing - then 90 sec later it says thank you, with a ding, and that is the end
Lucinda Lavender: oh I did not have the sound turned up
Calvino Rabeni: You have some questions about land and renting, but I don't know much. However I'll try to introduce you to some knowledgeable person if they are online
Lucinda Lavender: ok
Lucinda Lavender: The people whoe want to meet at the temple are hoping to find land to rent I guess.
Calvino Rabeni: They want a different place?
Lucinda Lavender: yes...the place they are at is due for a change in the next year.
Lucinda Lavender: the place they are at is due for a change in the next year.
Lucinda Lavender: did you get that?
Calvino Rabeni: get what exactly ?
Lucinda Lavender: I did not see my words come up for a while so I thought maybe were having a private discussion .
Calvino Rabeni: it is due for a change - I got that twice
Calvino Rabeni: ah!
Calvino Rabeni: No, it was probably just "lag"
Lucinda Lavender: what is in your hand?
Calvino Rabeni: A Talking stick
Lucinda Lavender: I see!
Calvino Rabeni: If you touch it you get a note card
Lucinda Lavender: sure
Lucinda Lavender: sorry
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Lucinda Lavender: did not mean to land there.
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: where