2010.03.25 19:00 - "I must lose the world by epoché, in order to regain it by a universal self-examination" - EH

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Hokon, Eos, Pema, Calvino,Eliza,Storm, Hamlet

Hokon Cazalet: wb paradise =) yes ive been here before, but my first time to an actual session
Paradise Tennant: smiles do you have the notecard :)
Hokon Cazalet: yup i got one =)
Paradise Tennant: is there anything in particular you would like to discuss ..a topic you would like to explore :)
Hokon Cazalet: hmm
Hokon Cazalet: ive been getting into phenomenology lately, also ontology; but nothing specific for today, i was kinda just gonna see what came up =)
Hokon Cazalet: but it seems omnly us are here so, ill think of something =)
Hokon Cazalet: lol i say that, and 2 secs later, its false
Hokon Cazalet: hi pema
Paradise Tennant: pema may bejoining us he has just logged in :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya pema :) gtsy
Pema Pera: Hi Paradise and Hokon!
Paradise Tennant: smiles we are ruminating on a topic :)
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: pema any ideas :)
Pema Pera: oh, many ideas, but SL is still rezzing for me . . . .
Pema Pera: waiting for cushions to appear
Paradise Tennant: was going to suggest "presence"
Hokon Cazalet: i like that =)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Paradise Tennant: hiya eliaz gtsy :)
Pema Pera: And nice to meet you, Hokon
Paradise Tennant: *eliza
Pema Pera: Hokon, are you interested in Husserl?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Paradise, Hokon (nice to meet you Hokon) :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh.. wait... Ah, we did meet! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you again
Paradise Tennant: This hokon's first formal session ..though she has been before :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera is trying to remember . . . .
Hokon Cazalet: brb phone
Eliza Madrigal: Mind if I lower the fountain, Paradise?
Paradise Tennant: not at all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles ...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: Hi Storm!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi all!
Paradise Tennant: anyone have a topic they would like to explore :)
Pema Pera: I'd love to hear about Hokon's interest in Husserl . . .
Pema Pera: but I guess she's on the phone?
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Hokon Cazalet: =) my phone call is almost done so =)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Pema Pera: tyt!
Pema Pera: meanwhile, I'm so impressed with the Village Square ! ! !
Storm Nordwind: Isn't it wonderful. So many ideas
Pema Pera: yes, so much life!
Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cal :)
Storm Nordwind: Bleu said something interesting at the 7am session this morning about it
Storm Nordwind: She said "was interested to see how much creating art about PaB has focused me on the themes of PaB .... acting as an interum step towards taking those themes into rl and everyday :)"
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
Storm Nordwind: I replied to her that it helps me tease apart something I normally see as more integrated
Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Nice, Storm. nodding
Pema Pera: yes, integration is about the most difficult thing to do . . . .
Pema Pera: Hi Hamlet!
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. . :) bleu has some wonderful insights :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya hamlet :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Hamlet :)
Paradise Tennant: wow ..full house :)
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Hamlet :)
Hamlet Au: Hello there!
Pema Pera: I guess Hamlet's blog attracted even Hamlet to visit us!
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Eliza Madrigal grins
Hamlet Au: Yes I couldn't resist!
Pema Pera: :-)
Storm Nordwind: He's sitting way back - it looks like he's come for an interview ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Pleasure to meet you Hamlet, a lovely blog entry about us :)
Hamlet Au: Oh thank you!
Hamlet Au: I'm here just to groove. :)
Eliza Madrigal: Me too.. hehe
Pema Pera: during the last two hours we had dinner in the Nassau Inn in Princeton, with his fiancee as well -- and halfway we got into subject/object reversal, after talking about Husserl . . . .
Paradise Tennant: likewise a real pleasure to meet you ..
Hamlet Au: You too!
Pema Pera: so it was funny to meet Hokon here, who has Husserl named in her profile!
Eliza Madrigal: :) Husserl also?
Pema Pera: small world
Hamlet Au: Haha wow.
Paradise Tennant: sychronicity at play again pema :)
Pema Pera: :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pema Pera: Hamlet gave a great talk today, by the way
Hokon Cazalet: ok phone call is done =) rl friend heading to california tomorrow =)
Hamlet Au: Oh thanks!
--BELL--
Pema Pera: So, Hokon, you're reading Husserl's Ideas?
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Pema Pera: I know *very* few people doing so!
Hokon Cazalet: been having alot of fun with it, a bit easier to read than kant =P
Pema Pera: glad to hear that :)
Pema Pera: well, yes :)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Pema Pera: actually the translations are sometimes quite impenetrable, even more so than the original dry scholarly German
Pema Pera: hi Eos!
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Paradise Tennant: hiya eos :)
Hokon Cazalet: hi eos (and hello to all others who came while i was on the phone)
Paradise Tennant: is there a cole's notes version pema :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi (feeling somewhat discorporated....)
Pema Pera: there are very few good introductory books on Husserl, I"m afraid . . . .
Hokon Cazalet: aw
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Hokon Cazalet: i seem to be doing ok so far though
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza
Hokon Cazalet: one section though bewildered me, in terms of jargon
Storm Nordwind: Is there an intro to what "cole's notes" are?
Eos Amaterasu: cheat sheet
Storm Nordwind: ah ty
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Paradise Tennant: lol hmm canadian .. version of short form study notes ..
Eos Amaterasu: (like Classics Comics)
Storm Nordwind: merci
Storm Nordwind: sorry Hokon - I interrupted you - please go on
Hokon Cazalet: no its ok =) you didnt
Pema Pera: btw, Hokon, I saw what you said early this morning, at the 1 am session: Hokon Cazalet: i think it involves a specific mindset, one that ignores aspects common to normal perception and thought; such as "that object is a marker, that is a pencil" um what else (imo)
Pema Pera: in fact, that is *exactly* what we discussed over dinner this evening in RL
Hokon Cazalet: im just really getting into the concept of phenomenology now, it seems to show alot of potential to me
Pema Pera: only I used a beer glass rather than a pencil :)
Hokon Cazalet: oh cool pema =)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Paradise Tennant: smiles at pema ..
Pema Pera: nicely cool beer yes, on tap
Eos Amaterasu: Delirium Tremens?
Pema Pera: not that strong
Storm Nordwind: Sadly not Amstel
Pema Pera: though we got offered beer T shirts, somehow
Hokon Cazalet: !oh wow, pema i read your profile, also has husserl =)
Pema Pera: but we all declined to act as unpaid advertisement bearers
Pema Pera: :-)
Hamlet Au: haha
Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Husserl
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Paradise Tennant: as pila and steve are not here I will do the wiki thing :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Pema Pera: over dinner, Jennifer, james/hamlet's fiancee, asked me about Husserl's epoche, because she is a film maker
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
Eos Amaterasu: "I must lose the world by epoché, in order to regain it by a universal self-examination" - EH
Pema Pera: so we started talking about movies, lucid dreams, lucid reality, epoche, etc
Pema Pera: yes, Eos, stepping back in order to really fall in
Hokon Cazalet: cool, ive been begining to think of epoché in relation to aesthetics myself
Hamlet Au: Very fascinating talk, Pema is a good lecturer over beer. :)
Pema Pera: hehehe
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Paradise Tennant: agrees :)
Pema Pera: we all were, we even started sharing our "last glass"
Pema Pera: there is nothing mysterious about epoche: it's just noticing that all that we are experiencing, ever, are experiences, not material things . . .
Eos Amaterasu: "Notice what you notice" - Allen Ginsberg
Hokon Cazalet: yup pema
Pema Pera: unlike Descartes, we don't have to "doubt" anything -- what is "really" real is just not relevant -- what we experience is
Hokon Cazalet: yup, actually ive wanted to get husserl's book "Cartesian Meditations", his view on what descartes did
Eos Amaterasu: Probably a good starter
Hokon Cazalet: hi amethyst =)
Pema Pera: yes, that's an interesting one too
Pema Pera: hello Amethyst!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Amethyst :)
Amethyst Melodie: hi :)
Eos Amaterasu: (that's where that quote came from)
Hokon Cazalet: =) cool Eos =)
Hokon Cazalet: i liked it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: Hamlet, we have braced ourselves for the influx of readers of your blog, but so far the only reader who has visited us today has been the writer :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I like the juxtaposition side by side of the two pictures in the article
Eos Amaterasu: Perma Pera and Piet Hut
Eos Amaterasu: Piet with laptop
Calvino Rabeni: I guess we won't crash the servers :)
Eos Amaterasu: through which Perma presmeably manifests
Hamlet Au: haha
Eos Amaterasu: So is it Pema doing the 90 secs, or is it Piet?
Eliza Madrigal: :) I would imagine that it will be more a matter of days/weeks... When I read things I take notes and then follow up later ...
Pema Pera: but perhaps some others will come over time -- either way, it is nice to get some visibility
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: oh, it depends, Eos :)
Pema Pera: Pema is more diligent than Piet, I'm afraid . . . .
Pema Pera: Piet is more square (like in Mondrian)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, great to have something to pass along to friends also, who are unfamiliar to SL and not benefitted by my descriptions... heh
Pema Pera: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Yeah, somehow more real when it has a URL :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Pema Pera: and the stamp of Hamlet!
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Eos Amaterasu: all the world's a play
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. PAB is an interesting and completely unique experiment really .. will be fascinating to see it evolve :)
Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
Hokon Cazalet: how new is PaB?
Eos Amaterasu: it's in the fourth moment "-)
Pema Pera: just about two years
Eliza Madrigal: Just about two years, Hokon :)
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
Pema Pera: started on April Fool's day 2008
Paradise Tennant: smiles perfect !
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: a delightful trick
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Kidding, but the delightful part is true :)
Pema Pera: During the first day, at the evening session, Storm made a practical joke, whipping up a storm, much to Maxine's confused surprise
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Storm Nordwind remembers :)
Paradise Tennant: loves a good storm :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: Storm was standing outside the tea house, and wrapped Maxine in a whirlwind . . .
Pema Pera: while Maxine had just entered SL, not knowing what to expect . . . .
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Eliza Madrigal grins... can imagine!
Pema Pera: Hamlet, if I may ask, how does it feel to write several new stories each day, about SL?
Pema Pera: that must feel like a whirlwind too!
Hamlet Au: Sometimes it can be stressful but generally I have a backlog of stories waiting to come out when I have the time to write them!
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
Hamlet Au: It's frustrating that there are more stories than there are hours.
Eliza Madrigal: that many interesting projects and figures?
Paradise Tennant: how many people visit your website .. in a day , week .. month to read the stories :)
Hamlet Au: For example, for the last year I've been wanting to write about an Iraq veteran who is a double amputee and goes into Second Life so he can dance with his wife again.
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhhhh, nice :)
Paradise Tennant: wow
Storm Nordwind: Oh!! How touching!
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hamlet Au: Yeah I want to tell their story when I can!
Eliza Madrigal: I will look forward to reading that
Hamlet Au: Paradise, it's hard to say how many read my blog, probably between 25-50K a month.
Paradise Tennant: yowser
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Hamlet Au: Middle class blog. :)
Hamlet Au: At best.
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: At an earlier session, we all giggled at that feeling of rushing to get to a mindful event like yoga class, btw ;-)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hamlet Au: hahaha
Eos Amaterasu: the medium is the yoke
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Paradise Tennant: smiles at eos :)
Pema Pera: :)
Hamlet Au: it's totally true! Fight to find parking, find to find a mat space, fight fight fight to BE AT PEACE!
Eliza Madrigal: Amen :)
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Eliza Madrigal: then to seem serene...
Pema Pera: trying not to remember that you forgot to put enough quarters in the meter . . . .
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Storm Nordwind: Try very hard to relax Mr. Au
Hokon Cazalet: its good to get a ride from somebody else =P
Eliza Madrigal: hah!!
Hamlet Au: It's so hard, storm!
Eliza Madrigal: yes eliminate the middle man, Hokon :)
Pema Pera: that's why we do it for only 9 sec :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hamlet Au: that helps, PP!
Pema Pera: basically, we just play
Eliza Madrigal: 9 seconds, any minute you like :)
Pema Pera: like:
Pema Pera: onigokko
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Paradise Tennant: omigokko
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: stop
Hokon Cazalet: i havnt done this in a while =)
Hamlet Au: hey wtf
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve :)
Hokon Cazalet: hey steve =)
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, enver arrived in the midddle of that
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pema Pera: hahaha
Paradise Tennant: you just missed omi
Pema Pera: we were showing off for Hamlet
Pema Pera: how serious we were
Hamlet Au: Haha that's great!
Hamlet Au: Excuse me all, I am being called away for another SL experience to write on. Lovely seeing you all, enjoy Pema's Husserlian ministrations! Good night!
Storm Nordwind waves
Hokon Cazalet: hehe goodnight hamlet, nice meeting you =)
Eliza Madrigal: Night, Hamlet
Pema Pera: see you at breakfast tomorrow, Hamlet!
Eos Amaterasu: ~~
Eliza Madrigal: words words words
Paradise Tennant: good nite hamlet ..will look forward to reading about it :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: I guess we had a subject/object reversal: getting the writer rather than the readers . . . . .
Paradise Tennant: lol
Storm Nordwind: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: its a writers medium
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: were there many this afternoon?
Pema Pera: 0.5
Eliza Madrigal: :) A few flashes so far
Eos Amaterasu: they're all going to imvu
stevenaia Michinaga: imvu?
Eliza Madrigal: imvu?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: the ad to the right of the photos in th article
Eliza Madrigal: Ahh
Eos Amaterasu: competition
Eliza Madrigal: yes, sure
Eliza Madrigal: It will prob take a while... things are like that ? time delays :)
Eliza Madrigal: Either way, fun :)
Pema Pera: exactly
Pema Pera: ah, Claudia Linden responded, by the way
Pema Pera: she sent me an IM
Pema Pera: telling me she enjoyed reading the article and was planning to drop by some time next week
Eliza Madrigal: great!
Storm Nordwind: Cool. I'll put on my best cargo pants
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Pema Pera: :)
Eliza Madrigal will keep the bells on
Pema Pera: she is head of educational support, I believe
Eliza Madrigal supports education :)
stevenaia Michinaga: have any Lindens been to the Institute, Pema?
Paradise Tennant: i saw phil linden once on the Pab sim .. has AV was there .. I think he was away ...
Pema Pera: the ReLaM meetings attracted several Lindens, Storm
Storm Nordwind nods
--BELL--
Pema Pera: and Prospero Linden, of course
Pema Pera: aka Frobozz
Eliza Madrigal: I'd better go... Hokon maybe another time would like to hear about Husserl & Aesthetics.... Anyawy, Thanks all
Hokon Cazalet: cool eliza, id love that, see ya =)
Paradise Tennant: smiles and sneaks out ..very early am tomorrow .. what a pleaser to see everyone .. thank you all :)
Eos Amaterasu: ciao also, bye
Eliza Madrigal: Night :)
Pema Pera: yeah, bed time for me too
Hokon Cazalet: bye paradise, nice meeting you =)
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Pema Pera: bye Hokon, and everybody!
Paradise Tennant: my pleasure hokon ..look forward to learning more about husserl :)
Hokon Cazalet: bye pema, and steve =)
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni waves
Storm Nordwind: Bye all
Hokon Cazalet waves to all leaving and smiles at them
Calvino Rabeni: And that was the session that was
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hokon Cazalet: i need to make some dinner, ill be back in like 10 mins =)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure :)
Hokon Cazalet: back =)
Calvino Rabeni: WB
Hokon Cazalet: ty
Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking of changing my profile to include "phenomenology"
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe a link - to whatever I'm currently spending time with
Hokon Cazalet: why the change?
Hokon Cazalet: cool =)
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: One funny thing I saw in some profiles lately - in the RL section - "For more information on RL, press ctl-Q"
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Hokon Cazalet: i guess that joke has hit sl finally =)
Hokon Cazalet: in multiplayer games, that kinda thing was big a few yrs back
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it came home to roost
Hokon Cazalet: F10 for god-mode
Calvino Rabeni: Ah
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Calvino Rabeni: So you're studying the history of pheno, then?
Hokon Cazalet: not the history of it, the ideaas of it; ive studied the history of philosophy though =)
Calvino Rabeni: I didn't do that - I jumped into the middle, and haven't worked my way back to Husserl
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: i started back in 1641, descartes, then worked my way forward
Hokon Cazalet: though i kinda skipped the 1800s
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, where I started was more like neurophilosophy, where they hope to updated pheno and get it domesticated to doing neuroscience
Calvino Rabeni: And it doesn't quite look like it is cooperating :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i kinda guessed that wouldnt work
Calvino Rabeni: Well, actually I suspect given time it will recast classical pheno
Hokon Cazalet: i had some thoughts early on with that, but
Hokon Cazalet: it could
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a new page in the history of philosophy
Hokon Cazalet: but nueroscience is still too young it seems
Calvino Rabeni: "not your grandfather's phenomenology" or something like that
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it is barely born
Hokon Cazalet: give it a few decades =)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but personally I think i can begin to respect it, which I couldn't in the past
Hokon Cazalet: neuroscience?
Calvino Rabeni: And I think it depends on getting phenomenology naturalized
Calvino Rabeni: I guess I'd call it neurophilosophy
Hokon Cazalet: thats a bit of an oxymoron though, naturalizing phenomenology
Calvino Rabeni: How so?
Hokon Cazalet: phenomenology rejects the naturalistic view (epoché) and considers phenomena itself
Hokon Cazalet: viz epoché
Hokon Cazalet: at least husserl's version does
Calvino Rabeni: That's the problem - Husserl seemed to have a decided transcendental idealism, didn't he?
Hokon Cazalet: yes he did
Hokon Cazalet: which i personally find transcenbdental idealism to be a contradictory doctrine (in some ways); i was a huge fan of kant, but the past month i had a falling out
Calvino Rabeni: Almost by definition, but it didn't stop later philosophers from considering naturalization, and neuroscience may give it scientific application - to make it not entirely an armchair or a priori endeavor
Hokon Cazalet: im not quite sure how neuroscience would naturalize phenomenology
Hokon Cazalet: (or replace it)
Hokon Cazalet: (ive just begun learning phenomenology, so im learning alot of new stuff atm =) )
Calvino Rabeni: It seems many are willing to cede to Husserl authority to define what pheno *ought* to be, or perhaps, as if it were a matter of intellectual property
Hokon Cazalet: well, if one doesnt agree with the def. why not merely make a new term?
Hokon Cazalet: well no nvm my comment
Hokon Cazalet: i see a problem with it :Þ
Hokon Cazalet: we're talking about the method of doing phenomenology so
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: There was a big spate of discussion in the journal Psyche in 2005 - 2007 on these issues, which I'm currently wading through
Hokon Cazalet: oh ok cool
Calvino Rabeni: and I've got a reasonable looking book on order
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Phenomenologic.../dp/0415391229
Hokon Cazalet: ok cool (clicks link)
Calvino Rabeni: But perhaps the one that has the most press lately is Thomas Metzinger
Hokon Cazalet: ok
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Being-No-One-S...9574372&sr=1-1
Calvino Rabeni: although I'd guess these are all applications in neurophilosophy
Hokon Cazalet: ok
Calvino Rabeni: Although I'm not sure there's any coherent reasonable definition for "pure" phenomenology
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, I'm thinking of putting together a theme session around here, on that topic.
Hokon Cazalet: ok
Hokon Cazalet: cool
Calvino Rabeni: Would you like to get a notice if/when that happens?
Hokon Cazalet: one thing im confused on, which being new to phenomenology wouldnt be abnormal =), it seems these books focus on psychology (nature of the mind) mostly, not ontology or essences of things
Hokon Cazalet: yes i would =)
Hokon Cazalet: how would i get a notice though?
Calvino Rabeni: A few other PaB people said they'd like a focus session so I hope it comes together
Hokon Cazalet: me too
Calvino Rabeni: I would just send you an IM when it is ready, unless you want to join the SL group called Contemplative Media
Hokon Cazalet: ill do IM for now
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Hokon Cazalet: im trying to not join too many groups i dont know =)
Hokon Cazalet: or ill just see the board here
Hokon Cazalet: itll be held here right?
Calvino Rabeni: Somewhere around Kira - in this sim, if not at this paviliion
Hokon Cazalet: ok
Hokon Cazalet: btw, what group should i join, to learn of PaB events?
Hokon Cazalet: sorry for all my questions =)
Calvino Rabeni: I think Kira Cafe would be the best - it covers PaB and other activities
Hokon Cazalet: ok cool
Hokon Cazalet: ty
Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
Hokon Cazalet: im in
Calvino Rabeni: ok good :)
Calvino Rabeni: I have enjoyed getting to know specific individuals in this group, to know their views and interests
Hokon Cazalet: i hope to find that here also =)
Hokon Cazalet: i got tired of philosophy house and philosophy island, seems more about ranting and flaming
Calvino Rabeni: There was a "gap" - at first I liked it because it was new, then for a while, it seemed kind of random, and then interesting based on knowing specific people
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, I tried those sites, and it wasn't my style
Hokon Cazalet: yeah me either
Calvino Rabeni: This place is more about real dialogue
Hokon Cazalet: =) yup i noticed
Hokon Cazalet: thats what drew me here almost instantly after my first time here
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: It is I think, in the nature of dialogue to be able to reach out across differences in style in order to get communication to happen - It wasn't my impression that the conventional groups think about doing that.
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: thats what really annoyed me about them
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah
Hokon Cazalet: i tried to have dialouge with people there, and its just rants or flame wars
Calvino Rabeni: Showing off, having their say, one upping, telling how it is, all that !@#$!@#$
Calvino Rabeni: )!)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup
Hokon Cazalet: hey you made a small mistake in your statement, your stupid and im right!
Calvino Rabeni: RIght, I remember that kind of stuff - you forgot to dot you i
Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup
Calvino Rabeni: Unbelievable :)
Hokon Cazalet: but if they make an error, your just "not getting it"
Hokon Cazalet: :Þ
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Hokon Cazalet: yeah, my rl friends when we chat philosophy, we have fun and dialouge =)
Calvino Rabeni: There was one session on "empathy" in one of those places - it was so analytical and remote - empathy was no where to be glimpsed, even indirectly :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: yup i remember going to one of those
Calvino Rabeni: Kind of disappointing as well as frustrating.
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: Although there are people who have a better approach, they are swimming against the current
Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Calvino Rabeni: Did I say "better" ? Ah, can I justify that idea? :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Calvino Rabeni: Sure better, in the sense that the participants can (1) learn from one another, (2) enjoy the process, (3) focus more in depth,.... etc.
Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
Hokon Cazalet: i enjoy this place alot more
Calvino Rabeni: I like to think people regard it as "participant defined"
Calvino Rabeni: So what it is, is what the bring to it and give to it
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Calvino Rabeni: An emergent property of who is here and what they want, if they go for what they want (in a way that includes others)
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Calvino Rabeni: What time zone are you in?
Hokon Cazalet: CST
Hokon Cazalet: 2+ slt
Hokon Cazalet: so ~11pm now
Calvino Rabeni: Oh, the 1am meets would probably be to late then.
Calvino Rabeni: For me, I rarely make the 7amSLT meets.
Hokon Cazalet: hehe i have a messed up sleep schedule =)
Hokon Cazalet: where are you?
Calvino Rabeni: As do I
Calvino Rabeni: In SLT
Calvino Rabeni: rather - PDT now
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Hokon Cazalet: CDT for me also
--BELL--
Hokon Cazalet: im gonna explore sl some more now =), ive been looking for new hang-outs since i got tired of PH (this is a good spot it seems =)
Calvino Rabeni: ENjoy, good talking to you
Hokon Cazalet: its nice to chat with you, it seems i can learn alot from this place =)
Hokon Cazalet: you too =)
Calvino Rabeni: See you later then