2010.03.27 19:00 - On Big Bangs and Shotguns

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Arch!
Pema Pera: and hi. brown snake talking in green
Archmage Atlantis: Hey, I just use the programming......I don't create it *g*
Pema Pera: just letting it happen . . .
Archmage Atlantis: Well attending a baroque masked wedding, a new thing.......we are lucky there is new still to be had......well we are lucky to be able to recognize there are still new understanding
Pema Pera: ah, that was related to your dignified clothes! They looked very nice, actually.
Pila Mulligan: hi
Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
Pema Pera: Good to see you again
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you also Pema
Pila Mulligan: how are you Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Thank you, I did not pick them......the person I cared for did........and for him I went to the wedding......and for him I see a twisting path that will bring his husband here
Pila Mulligan: hi Susi
Pema Pera: Hi Susi
Archmage Atlantis: I am doin well Pema
Archmage Atlantis: Hello sister
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ all
Pila Mulligan: long time no see Susi
Pema Pera: Thanks for the astronomy related link, Pila
Pila Mulligan: you are welcome

Pila Mulligan: well, not really a topic, but a current event -- my favorite team just got beat in the US college basketball tournament
Archmage Atlantis: did they put their hearts into the game, Pila?
Pila Mulligan: the National College Athletic Association basketball tournament is a big deal for places like Kentucky where not much more than basketball takes place
Pila Mulligan: tehy played really well, Arch -- the basket had a lid on it -- the missed shots they should never miss
Pila Mulligan: they were beaten by West Virginia -- another place where basketball can be a ticket for atheletic kids
Archmage Atlantis: I always ask gurus if suffering has meaning.........to lose at sports has meaning also
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: the human mind seems to have a need to associate and give significance to things -- but that just relfects a pattern of the mind -- real meaning may be difficult to discern
Pema Pera: maybe reality is beyond meaning :-)
Susi Alcott: sometimes the lose 'comes' by too much trying...
Pila Mulligan: this time they lost by missing baskets :)
Archmage Atlantis: That is correct for me, Pema....reality is beyond meaning

Pila Mulligan: Pema, can I get a little cosmic question answered please: is space expanding?
Pema Pera: well, yes, that is one way to say it
Pila Mulligan: coould you kind of flesh it out as to menaing please
Pila Mulligan: as best you can
Pema Pera: of course, words are always only an approximation of the math and physics that in turn are a description of what we understand so far of reality.
Pema Pera: well, if you follow the time lines of galaxies in the universe, then from their point of view, there is more and more space appearing, and galaxies move away from each other, so the every-day interpretation would be "space is expanding"
Pema Pera: another interpretation is that there is space-time, which is given, where nothing "happens"
Susi Alcott: Hi Lucinda
Pila Mulligan: is it realistic to consider the big bang as an explosion of space, with the image of a boundary or edge of space then speeding outward from it ?
Pema Pera: and there are other ways to "slice the cake" of the four-dimensional reality as well
Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
Lucinda Lavender: hi
Pila Mulligan: hi Luci
Pema Pera: sure, seeing the big bang as "an explosion of space" is far more accurate than as "an explosion in space" which is definitely wrong
Pema Pera: Lucinda, Pila is asking me questions about the Big Bang :)
Pila Mulligan: so is space getting biggger then locally?
Lucinda Lavender: oh!
Pila Mulligan: is it expanding around us?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: that would be a fair way of expressing it, yes
Pila Mulligan: ask the master
Pema Pera: around us, and also around every other point
Pema Pera: there is no "center of expansion"
Pema Pera: so it's un unusual expansion
Pila Mulligan: so we are growing then dimensionally by the expansion?
Archmage Atlantis: And there are many more Bangs than our big onw
Pema Pera: you could say so, yes,
Pema Pera: (to Pila)
Pema Pera: as for many more Big Bangs, quite likely
Pila Mulligan: no wonde rI've gained weight
Pema Pera: but hard to prove since we can't peek into another universe
Lucinda Lavender: :0
Pema Pera: :-)
Archmage Atlantis: Cheap shot Pila, but funny
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: most likely our universe is a small part of a "multiverse"
Pila Mulligan: and so how does locally expanding space affect time -- is it also dilateaed?
Pila Mulligan: dialated*

Pema Pera: think of an infinite cake rising in an oven, where every raison thinks it is the center of expansion . . . . .
Pema Pera: no, time is more or less the same for every galaxy
Pema Pera: in first approximation
Pila Mulligan: this sounds very uncomprehnsible :)
Pema Pera: which part is?
Archmage Atlantis: So one cannot imagine a galaxy without time, then?
Pila Mulligan: it seems to me that if space expands it would affect time
Pema Pera: no, all galaxies are at rest with respect to their surroundings, roughly speaking
Pila Mulligan: if a foot expands it becomes more than afoot, so 60 mph would not stay the same speed unless time also changed
--BELL--
Pema Pera: if they would move very fast, locally, then time would slow down for them, but they don't
Pila Mulligan: my capacity for conecptualizing is plainly limited in these matters
Archmage Atlantis: astrophysics explains much......still the is more to be learned, yes?
Pema Pera: well, it helps seeing pictures and equations, the geometry and algebra of math -- just words are plain confusing
Pema Pera: for each question you ask, I picture my understanding and then read off the answer
Pema Pera: the words are just shadows on the wall
Pila Mulligan: I imagine time becoming Lilliputian as space becomes Brobdingnagan
Pila Mulligan: and it seems time looses some vlaue then
Pema Pera: no, time is measured locally
Pema Pera: and space doesn't expand much locally
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: not at the size of a clock -- only at the size of distances between hundreds or more galaxies
Pema Pera: your watch is truly lilliputian compared to galaxies :-)
Archmage Atlantis: Why do men argue, and women listen?,,,,,,,,perhaps it is the future of life
Pema Pera: I've seen women arguing, Arch :-)
Pila Mulligan: ok, I was misreading earlier then ... [19:25] Pila Mulligan: so is spoace getting biggger then locally? [19:25] Pila Mulligan: is it expanding around us? [19:25] Pema Pera: that would be a fair way of expressing it, yes
Pema Pera: it is getting bigger, but locally only a bit
Pila Mulligan: why doesn't space expand much locally?
Pema Pera: if the universe gets one percent older (in a hundred million years, roughly) everything around us gets also roughly 1% more stretched, on large enough scales
Pema Pera: and in a hundred years only one millionth of one percent

Pila Mulligan: incidentally, one of the legends of Hawai`i is that the demi-god Maui lasooed the sun and caused it to slow down, making the days longer -- but this is probably not directly related to astrophysics :)
Pema Pera: but given the enormous distances between galaxies, one millionth of one percent is still huge!
Pila Mulligan: but locally it is not proportionately so great, that makes sense
Pema Pera: the days are getting longer, because of the lasso of the Moon's tides, in my vocabulary :-)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, unless it is time of a quantam jumt
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: well, thanks Pema, you are a fountain of knowledge for one curious about these things
Pema Pera: my pleasure, Pila, it's my job after all :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Archmage Atlantis: I have great respect for Pema
Archmage Atlantis: He and Storm created this cente
Pema Pera: Lucinda, I really enjoyed your discussion of dreams, yesterday. I have another question about your work in Montessori schools: do you talk with children there about dreams?
Lucinda Lavender: Sometimes I do. They have much to say.
Pema Pera: (thanks Arch, but there were many others involved too)
Pema Pera: I bet they do!
Lucinda Lavender: Some dreams they tell are very beautiful.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: do they like to talk about their dreams?
Lucinda Lavender: I don't remember them tho
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Pema Pera: life must be quite dream like for them, every day so many new impressions . . . .
Pila Mulligan: are you aware of the dream workshop at Kira on Tuesdays, Lucinda?
Lucinda Lavender: yes.
Lucinda Lavender: I have heard but do not remember the time.
Pila Mulligan: 1 pm SLT
Lucinda Lavender: I would be interested in visiting. Thanks.
Pila Mulligan: it is an interesting workshop

Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=136
Lucinda Lavender: I am kind of new to computers.
Pila Mulligan: don't let them bully you :)
Lucinda Lavender: ok! at the wiki place will I be able to copy the address mentioned?
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: the reference to bully was in regard to being new to computers -- people often seem to readily feel personal guilt for faults that result from computer technology -- ergo, computers as bullies
Pila Mulligan: hi Ethen
Susi Alcott: Hi Ethen
Ethen Lane: Greetings
Pema Pera: Lucinda, here is the slurl for the Kira Cafe: http://slurl.com/secondlife/BaikUn/226/96/251
Pema Pera: do you know what a slurl is?
Pema Pera: (a Second Life URL) ?
Pema Pera: Hi Ethen!
Lucinda Lavender: right, yes
Lucinda Lavender: I would like to capture it...
Ethen Lane: How is everyone
Pema Pera: Fine, nice to meet you, Ethen
Pila Mulligan: fine thanks Ethen, and you?
Ethen Lane: I'm Well thank you :)
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Ethen!
Pema Pera: Have you been here before?
Ethen Lane: I haven't
Pema Pera: we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Archmage Atlantis: Ethen is my brother-in-lwa
Ethen Lane: indeed I am
Ethen Lane: proudly
Archmage Atlantis: And worth while as a person
Ethen Lane: and You are as well Archmage
Archmage Atlantis: Pema need to know if you are willingto be recorded Ethen
Pila Mulligan: his lawyer makes him askthat question for copyright purposes
Pema Pera: :)
Ethen Lane: Im ok with that ineed...a wise Man holds no bounds
Ethen Lane: :)
Pema Pera: thanks, Ethen!
Ethen Lane: yw

Pema Pera: Did Arch tell you about our 9-sec explorations?
Ethen Lane: We havent hadthe chance o go into detail, however Im open to learn
Pema Pera: we take a kind of shot gun approach to exploring the nature of reality . . . .
Archmage Atlantis: Teach Pema
Pema Pera: shooting a little hole into our habits once every fifteen minutes
Pema Pera: letting in some space
Pema Pera: and openness
Ethen Lane: nods
Pema Pera: nanomeditations you could say
Ethen Lane: very alluring
Pema Pera: or a 1 % time tax
Pema Pera: (15 minutes = 900 seconds)
Ethen Lane: nods
Pema Pera: so four times a day we give ourselves a break
Pema Pera: I mean, four times an hour
Pema Pera: and four times a day we come together, to compare the breaks, I meant to say
Ethen Lane: ahhh ok makes scense
Pema Pera: so we trade duration for frequency, compared to most approaches
Pema Pera: usually when people practice yoga or tai chi or whatever, they first train for a few years and then more and more integrate what they learn into their life -- but here we start with integration
Pema Pera: even before knowing what it is we are integrating :-)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Ethen Lane: nods
Ethen Lane: :)
Pema Pera: like children learning by doing
Pema Pera: boldly
Ethen Lane: I think that sounds good for the soul
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: cures the blues :)
Ethen Lane: indeed
Pema Pera: Lucinda, have you played with the short breaks a bit, already?
Lucinda Lavender: I think so. My repoonse has been to breathe and connect to a place within and without
Pema Pera: that sounds very nice!
Lucinda Lavender: shedding stories as well
Ethen Lane: smiles
--BELL--
Pema Pera: one of the fun aspects of Play as Being is that everyone has a different approach
Pema Pera: to sum up, Ethen, we meditate like a bat out of hell :-)

Ethen Lane: ya know...I think if that were done alot more...people wouldnt be so unhappy in life
Pema Pera: (in RL that is, here we take a more leisurly approach: 90 seconds)
Pila Mulligan must be going -- nice to see/meet everyone -- bye for now
Pema Pera: bye Pila!
Pema Pera: thanks for stopping bye
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Pila
Lucinda Lavender: bye Pila!
Pila Mulligan: aloha
Archmage Atlantis: Carwling off all the floor
Pema Pera: I must be going too, it's getting late here at the East Coast
Pema Pera: nice talking with you all
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Pema
Pema Pera: bfn
Lucinda Lavender: yes! bye Pema
Archmage Atlantis: I no longer have forgiveness
Susi Alcott: then you have got quite lost of yourself
Susi Alcott: off
Susi Alcott: from
Archmage Atlantis: The seas shall rise.....the earth will exlplode with fire......it will bre a reboot
Lucinda Lavender: each moment then becomes a gift?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Lucida, each moment is at gift........and a recognition we are created in the image
Susi Alcott: Hi Carey
Carey Tamalyn: Hi
Archmage Atlantis: susi, may I and Ethen talk alone?
Susi Alcott: well; remember that all here is recorded, so...might it be possible only in IM
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: I do not fear recording
Susi Alcott: _/!\_