2010.03.06 07:00 - inspiration in sl, and fighting TSK

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.


    --- secondlife as source for recommendation and inspiration

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning
    Calvino Rabeni: hi, good morning
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not really for me but nice to hear :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s a good afternoon so far
    Yakuzza Lethecus: had a nice conversation before
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm curious about the conversation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, it was about the use of 2nd life and how ppl inspire each other pretty much
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i had a few book recommendations from that person and went to places i usually woulnd´t go to in real life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: alike pab
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so it wasn´t very deep but it always got frequent ways to elaborate apon afterwards
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still one of my main concerns is how to really elaborate on the things i am listening and be exposed to around here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you read the book of change by the way ?
    Calvino Rabeni: not recently - I remember thinking about it yesterday - lake over earth
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i haven´t read it so far
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zon
    Zon Quar: hi again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i barely make it over the introductionary chapters of book
    Yakuzza Lethecus: s


    ------ Oh, here starts my issue on the understanding of TSK again


    Yakuzza Lethecus: so TSK is kinda unique and only because its discussed weekly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i noticed that i don´t read the tsk book tensionless enough
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i always come to thoughts like ,,is this really supposed to be understandable?"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and hang on during i read
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so that´s really kinda retarding during the reading on the book
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and those ,,expectations and prejudical thoughts" are exactly whats for me sensefull to drop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it happens that i carry secondary thoughts so often and premade opinions over some topic that i can´t fall into something new
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but how to preserve the ,,positive tension"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s obviously not only related to TSK for me, it´s a general issue that i notice again and again on me
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    Calvino Rabeni: When is the positive tension at risk?
    Zon Quar: what is TSK ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: time space knowledge
    Zon Quar: ah..k
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a book by tarthang tulku which is discussed wednesdays in the time workshop
    Zon Quar: yes..ii intend to read it
    Zon Quar: is it good
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, you don´t want to hear my answer :)
    Zon Quar: i do
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t understand it so far :)
    Zon Quar: is the language difficult ?
    Calvino Rabeni: *nothing* ? :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s really in a hard language for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and i don´t know how to preserve a positive tention during reading something in general, so reading something like that book is a fight on 2 fronts
    Calvino Rabeni: the english adds another layer of difficulty
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 1st not to start even thinking ,,i want to finish at least the next 10 pages" which i even do sometimes reading books with understandable english
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i don´t believe that´s common english
    Yakuzza Lethecus: every englishman suffers from the same issues i suppose
    Calvino Rabeni: What is the situation with the positive tension?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s whats supposed to keep me motivated when i do anything
    Zon Quar: i found when i started my "spiritual studies" that i was drawn to a book, i couldn understand it but it was magnetic, so i read it like listening to music, nott rying to understand but get the aroma of it; then iread simpler books and later came back to this book and got it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the way, where are you from zon ?
    Zon Quar: finland
    Zon Quar: and u ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: germany
    Calvino Rabeni: You got the TSK book, before joining the Kira workshop, Yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i got the copy during the workshop from pema
    Yakuzza Lethecus: he´s allowed to give a digitigal copy away
    Zon Quar: can it be shared, os is it useless without reading the book itself ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, it is only Pema can give it away
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you can send pema message
    Zon Quar: but is it useful if u havne tread teh book first ?
    Calvino Rabeni: the digital copy is the same text as the book
    Calvino Rabeni: is that what you are asking, or are you asking, can we discuss it without reading the book first?
    Calvino Rabeni: And it is also interesting to discuss what it is like to read the book
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods especailly for me
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, different ways to read the book
    Yakuzza Lethecus: since i constantly don´t have the feeling to understand it
    Zon Quar: sry gtg
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Zon
    Zon Quar: quickly
    Zon Quar: bye
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye zon
    Calvino Rabeni: THere are lots of ways to read - which ones do you think are effective for this difficult book?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no idea yet
    Calvino Rabeni: So you've tried a few different ways to go about it, with different results.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i always fall back into the same routines of thinking
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t make me read it neutral
    Calvino Rabeni: The thing I think about reading, is first, can I read it in a satisfactory way given my normal habits of reading
    Calvino Rabeni: If not, then I'd try to read it in a non-normal way and see if that made any difference
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i even used a text to speech program for it
    Calvino Rabeni: Given the hypothesis that the manner of reading it, will have some effect on my understanding
    Calvino Rabeni: The thing to vary, is oneself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand, one might consider how the book was *meant* to be used
    Calvino Rabeni: A book is like a person reaching out a hand - in a particular way, and to connect with it requires adaptation to that also.
    Calvino Rabeni: For instance, the TSK book might not be designed to be read like a textbook
    Calvino Rabeni: It might not be designed to be read like an essay, a series of ideas to be understood
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just try to drop my thoughts about it
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it's like a collection of poems
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not to think about it and read it again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but the words like great knowledge already trigger associations
    Calvino Rabeni: And it could be read after doing a period of meditation,
    Calvino Rabeni: or maybe,first thing on waking in the morning
    Yakuzza Lethecus: reading it and ,,being seeing" where those associations leed me too is propably one step
    Calvino Rabeni: when the mind is not fully formed into patterns already
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, it could be read like the I Ching - just find some one little thing at random, and then sit with that for awhile, independent of any "big idea" about the whole
    Calvino Rabeni: Or it could be read like picking cherries from a cherry tree
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i don´t like ,,fighting" to understand it
    Calvino Rabeni: just find the 1 or 2 most appealing, juicy bits in a chapter, and savor it, and forget the rest
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that is what I'm suggesting to let go of
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i will always have the feeling of fighting reading it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go
    Calvino Rabeni: If you practice poetry reading, or I Ching, then both of those do not treat the text as a big block of stuff to be understood
    Calvino Rabeni: so it could help to read TSK the same way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i agree

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    Originally written on 18:05, 06 Mar 2010
    Haha, What a great title, Ya!
    Also, I really enjoyed this session. You know, PaB logs are also quite like reading TSK sometimes... seeing what jumps out or what seems particular. Enjoyed Zon's 'aromatic sensibilities' and the general theme of flexibility when working with something.
    Not to be suggestive, but an artist friend recently wrote a paper about how she approaches the muses ... how she feels she has to win them back sometimes. Reading a book can be like that too. :))
    Posted 14:52, 9 Apr 2010
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