2010.03.26 13:00 - power,sillyness and psychoanalysis

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: smiles
    Susi Alcott: hi Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi :)
    Susi Alcott: Hi Qt
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi qt :)
    Qt Core: hi Susi, Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello vellora
    Vellora Vella: hi
    Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
    Qt Core: hi Vellora
    Yakuzza Lethecus: everything here will be logged and hold against you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: if not by us then it´s safed at the lindens always accessible for the us government
    Vellora Vella: its okay
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok :)
    Susi Alcott: smiles to Yaku's words
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i was at an event on governance in virtual worlds today
    Susi Alcott: ah yes Vellora; these Yaku and Qt are also good friends to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and one guy from a law school mentioned that logging issue bye the lindens part
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even all private messages are logged
    Susi Alcott: Yaku and Qt; this Vellora is also very good long time (years) to me
    Vellora Vella: aha - okay
    Vellora Vella: nice to meet you
    Qt Core: nice to meet
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you´re welcome vellora
    Vellora Vella: thk u
    Susi Alcott: pls you Vellora sit between these warm hearted men :)
    Qt Core: we are a little obsessed wit simmetry ;-)
    Vellora Vella: oh.... thank you
    Qt Core: wow, i'm rarely told i'm warm hearted, quite the contrary, usually
    Qt Core: it is surely nicer to hear ;-)
    Widget Whiteberry: hello
    Qt Core: hi widget
    Susi Alcott: hi Widget
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey widget
    Widget Whiteberry: nice to see you all
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal :)
    Qt Core: hi cal
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Hello and to each in your very own way :) good day
    Widget Whiteberry takes a few deep breaths to focus on being here
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and welcome liza :)
    Qt Core: :) sometimes i come here at pab session to feel obliged to take such breathes ;-)
    Vellora Vella: hi Liza
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Liza
    Liza Deischer: hi all
    Qt Core: hi liza
    Liza Deischer: is there a topic?
    Qt Core: not yet
    Vellora Vella: ^^
    Liza Deischer: ok
    Qt Core: do you have one Liza ?
    Liza Deischer: hmm, not yet :-)
    Qt Core: :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: breathing
    Calvino Rabeni: How about Power?
    Arisia Vita: Hi all!
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Ari
    Liza Deischer: hi arisia
    Vellora Vella: Hi Arisia
    Qt Core: hi arisia
    Susi Alcott: U'de please sit on my left side ?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Qt Core: Power, Calvino ? in which context ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: welcome arisia
    Susi Alcott: sry wrong window...
    Calvino Rabeni: In the context in which You have it, to make a difference you want made.
    Calvino Rabeni: Or in the context that others have it, who make a difference you want made on your behalf
    Susi Alcott: well...might that be so that each one's power is what somebody gives...or not
    Calvino Rabeni: For example, some people can organize a group, and it benefits people to create a community. THey use their power for that purpose
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Zon
    Zon Quar: hyea
    Liza Deischer: hi zon
    Calvino Rabeni: And Susi if I might say so, clearly has a power too
    Widget Whiteberry: Is 'power' interchangable with 'energy'?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zon
    Calvino Rabeni: Which is used for helping people
    Qt Core: thinking about the power of people as voters (having local elections this sunday)
    Susi Alcott: well...have had many groups 'back then', but nowbody had any power but 'to be free'
    Calvino Rabeni: Energy - perhaps - I think one can't use power without having energy
    Calvino Rabeni: So cultivating energy might be a prerequesite to using it as power
    Calvino Rabeni: spiritual or otherwise
    Liza Deischer: you need something to put the group together
    Liza Deischer: I don't know if that is power
    Liza Deischer: and hold it together
    Calvino Rabeni: So the question is about the types of power that we have not ceded to others and to institutions
    Vellora Vella: afk for a minute
    Calvino Rabeni: The King of Thailand has great moral power, and can influence the nation during a military coup
    Calvino Rabeni: LIkewise anyone here can go to Meetup.com and convene a group for any social purpose whatever
    Calvino Rabeni: Or speak up about the good choices in a family matter, for instance
    Liza Deischer: I try to get a picture for myself of what power is
    Calvino Rabeni: Or simply the power to keep centered, when the world looks chaotic and crazy
    Vellora Vella: back
    Calvino Rabeni: There is "power with" as well as "power over"
    Susi Alcott: wb Vellora
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
    Liza Deischer: to me power is action
    Calvino Rabeni: Power for selfish reasons, and power to unite, etc.
    Liza Deischer: something that you need to decide or force in a way
    Liza Deischer: land I think it is an 'outgoing' action
    Liza Deischer: creating something
    Vellora Vella: power is in anything around us - i think
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, power to create something new
    Vellora Vella: we ar surrounded by it
    Calvino Rabeni: creativity
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but to some extend we have to come to a common ground on these terms
    Calvino Rabeni: Are we filled with it as well as surrounded by it?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t get into words like ,,great knowledge" and alike in the time space knowledge book
    Susi Alcott: so....you take that power can be spiritual force ...?
    Calvino Rabeni: my own opinion yes, susi
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so, power,spiritual force so is that what i often understand as a positive tension ?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: :) Hello
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi aga :)
    Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense too Yakusan
    Vellora Vella: Hello Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Guten Abend Yaku :)
    Liza Deischer: hi Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello all
    Qt Core: hi Agatha
    Zon Quar: agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Buona Sera QT :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: C'mon cushions!
    Calvino Rabeni: Are there internal "resistances" to personal power?
    Liza Deischer: (and now in Ducht please :-))
    Calvino Rabeni: Like, Great Knowledge is a kind of "tease" in a way
    Liza Deischer: *Dutch
    Calvino Rabeni: it suggests you might need to have power to do something with the knowledge
    Calvino Rabeni: Imagination can be a tease also, creating a positive tension
    Zon Quar: knowledge is power
    Susi Alcott: there I'de again come to that thinking, that such kind of power one can have only when it's given by others...
    Susi Alcott: -> Zon; when one can use it yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I'd agree with "knowledge is (a prerequisite of) power"
    Calvino Rabeni: And also - power can lead to more knowledge?
    Liza Deischer: is knowledge power, or can you use it as such
    Calvino Rabeni: But having knowledge without power to use it can be suffering
    Vellora Vella: you can give power to people just be with them... saying nothing
    Susi Alcott: indeed Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes that is a power too :)
    Arisia Vita: When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Sri Chinmoy Ghose
    Agatha Macbeth: VERY true Ari! :)
    Liza Deischer: I have a feeling that power hee is translated as 'active energy'
    Zon Quar: love is power
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello aali
    Liza Deischer: I'm not sure if that is power to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: first time here ?
    Liza Deischer: hi Aaliyah
    Zon Quar: it drwas things together
    Zon Quar: pulling force
    Calvino Rabeni: What is power to you, Liza?
    Susi Alcott: hi Aaliyah
    Liza Deischer: I think power is not just active, but used with force
    Zon Quar: love is a glue tha holds ppl together
    Liza Deischer: to me love is not the same as power
    Zon Quar: so it is a power
    Vellora Vella: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.”
    Liza Deischer: it can be powerful, but that is something different
    Vellora Vella: was A.Einstein saying
    Calvino Rabeni: "the power of love" is something many have heard about
    Zon Quar: all depends on how we like to define words
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes- that is power too - how to decide how to define words
    Liza Deischer: that doesn't mean that love equals power
    Susi Alcott: finds also probs to think that love is power...but force...
    Calvino Rabeni: TO make a decision about how to define them - this is a power
    Vellora Vella: i belive in natural justice and balance
    Vellora Vella: as a power and force
    Liza Deischer: power is something to me that can put something into, or out balanc
    Liza Deischer: balance
    Calvino Rabeni: To allow others to define one's terms is to hand over power
    Susi Alcott: but I have spoken much to people how love is the healing energy and knowledge/truth is healing 'thing'
    Susi Alcott: and to make love is the most hight power of healing
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Vellora Vella: sure ^^
    Liza Deischer: yes, but love can be powerfull, but not in itself
    Susi Alcott: so very true
    Zon Quar: why not
    Calvino Rabeni: say more Liza?
    Zon Quar: is power always used by onwe person over others
    Susi Alcott: as love itself is not any power, but when there's aciton; will to love, it can turn to be powerfull
    Liza Deischer: well, that would mean that a lot of things/ emotions equals power
    Susi Alcott: cuz loving gives much strength to who loves...
    Calvino Rabeni: Zon, that is for someones definition of power - but there are other definitiosn too
    Liza Deischer: I think it is more about how you use it
    Calvino Rabeni: power with, not power over
    Susi Alcott: one turnes then to be strong; powerfull
    Calvino Rabeni: or the "higher power" etc.
    Widget Whiteberry: I think of power as something that can be shared in many ways
    Widget Whiteberry: and focused in many ways
    Susi Alcott: then it is the person who is powertull...not love itself
    Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
    Vellora Vella: it is the way we handle and use the power... all we got endless of it
    Susi Alcott: agree with Widget, and thinks that the only good way to use power is to share it...
    Vellora Vella: the balance
    Calvino Rabeni: :) to widget also
    Liza Deischer: or the activity the person uses
    Calvino Rabeni: Balance seems important to power too
    Vellora Vella: and believing is much more powerful than knowing in a kind of way i think
    Liza Deischer: not if balance is not coming from force
    Zon Quar: Power (philosophy), the ability to control one's environment or other entities
    Liza Deischer: (to me that is)
    Liza Deischer: balance just can be
    Calvino Rabeni: The topic of "power" has power - it caused the bell and pause to be ignored :))
    Liza Deischer: :-)))
    Agatha Macbeth: /smiles @ Cal
    Liza Deischer: i felt that power cal :-)
    Susi Alcott: ->Zon; and that is something that I've taken to been used more wrong way; ruling over...
    Zon Quar: tha was from wipikedia..lol
    Calvino Rabeni: Recognizing and acknowledging power - can make it more conscious
    Liza Deischer: (couldn't shut up)
    Arisia Vita: Now I must use my power to fly to another meeting, be well and happy till we meet again...
    Liza Deischer: bye ari
    Calvino Rabeni: Ruling over is a low type of power, I think
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye
    Susi Alcott: that's why my mind connects easily bad and sad things to the word power...
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Ari
    Arisia Vita: bye all
    Vellora Vella: bye
    Susi Alcott: enjoy Ari _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the word power brings sadness due to its abuse in certain places
    Vellora Vella: yes
    Vellora Vella: power creates power
    Calvino Rabeni: but it might be good to "redeem" or heal it from those situations
    Widget Whiteberry: Cal: 'those situations'?
    Calvino Rabeni: All the stories about abuse of low power
    Calvino Rabeni: It is a spiritual power, not to be dominated by those stories in a negative way
    Zon Quar: well i like to be able to control my environment
    Qt Core: have to go, rl calls, bye all
    Liza Deischer: bye QT
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
    Vellora Vella: bye QT
    Susi Alcott: ah yes; the rule can use power as supporting, and then I take it rises from force of love and understanding
    Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT
    Zon Quar: bye qt
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Qt
    Liza Deischer: What is 'higher' power?
    Zon Quar: that wich controls us
    Susi Alcott: might that be something that 'few' people have created from there beliefs...
    Susi Alcott: well...may I tell a story ?
    Vellora Vella: sure
    Liza Deischer: please do Susi
    Susi Alcott: as I met such man, who did believe that 'the upstairs office' do rule over people
    Susi Alcott: I asked him; "Does the upstairs office stop some people to do something ?"
    Susi Alcott: he was in silence for a while, and then said;
    Susi Alcott: "Sometimes"
    Susi Alcott: then I asked; "Does the upstairs office force somebody to do something?"
    Susi Alcott: again he thought for a while and said; "Sometimes"
    Susi Alcott: after that he didnt' anymore believe that the upstairs office would rule over or controll people
    Susi Alcott: end of the story
    Liza Deischer: I hope he stil gets his paycheck :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: To me, "sometimes" is power
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care widget
    Widget Whiteberry: I need to be elsewhere ...
    Calvino Rabeni: If there is a chance that one may lose the job, that is a real conntrol
    Susi Alcott: that still is not to controll
    Liza Deischer: right cal :-)
    Widget Whiteberry: ty, Yak, Cal, all
    Liza Deischer: bye Widget
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Widget
    Susi Alcott: enjoy your time Widget _/!\_
    Vellora Vella: sure cause upstairs-office is more an reclamation-office telling u things... but not demanding
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Widge
    Zon Quar: yes the possibility to control is power
    Calvino Rabeni: And the systems of capitalism and classism are forms of power
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Calvino Rabeni: As in, past eras, other forms of social power - feudalism, etc.
    Liza Deischer: but if you don't do what you are supposed to do, you 'ran' into the office
    Calvino Rabeni: And yet, they don't control every kind of power
    Liza Deischer: "The office' will notice that and act
    Calvino Rabeni: many powers are still free
    Vellora Vella: sure
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps then they need to be "secret" some times
    Susi Alcott: and specially what comes to this 'higher power' people speak much about...forgetting the given free will
    Liza Deischer: reight Susi :-)
    Susi Alcott: and yes; to me...that is much 'higher' to be human being than an angel or any kind of spirit 'in the upstairs office'...even so many people speaks also aobut 'higher self'....
    Vellora Vella: if u could control everything in life... it wont be a real life.... no surprises.... some boring perhabs
    Susi Alcott: as also this 'higher self' is learning from experiences in our human life..
    Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks away, *damn no onigokko today, what a friday*, but wait a minute...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
    Vellora Vella: looooooool
    Susi Alcott: nice power _/!\_
    Vellora Vella: true
    Calvino Rabeni: Yakuzza has the "power" to move the avatars
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Agatha Macbeth: Thanks Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Schlaf gut :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: bye Yaku
    Vellora Vella: gute Nacht
    Vellora Vella: cu
    Vellora Vella: flower power
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Susi Alcott: ...Liza...
    Vellora Vella: was at the hippie time actual
    Vellora Vella: lol
    Susi Alcott: you have a text above your head....
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Susi Alcott: that word is much used in 'finnish'....meaning sadness...
    Liza Deischer: yes, I know
    Vellora Vella: there is this song.. yes
    Liza Deischer: meaning exactly that
    Vellora Vella: feeling empty ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Singing "the blues" a kind of power ?
    Susi Alcott: ...you dont feel will to share the reason to your feeling ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Sure is
    Liza Deischer: hard to answe
    Susi Alcott: sadness is yes very powerfull
    Susi Alcott: then pls dont even try
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: but some people don't understand the change in the choice of my clothing
    Vellora Vella: hi Sophia
    Liza Deischer: that is why the text is there
    Susi Alcott: Hi Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi All sorry for being Really late, lol, basically came to say hi
    Liza Deischer: hi Sharon
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Sharon :)
    Zon Quar: hi Sophia
    Liza Deischer: but lets say I sometimes have a meating with the dark side of the moon
    Agatha Macbeth: Pink Floyd?
    Liza Deischer: felt the need in sl to show it
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Zon Quar: its helpful sometimes
    Liza Deischer: because sl can be used for such expression
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it can be indeed Liza
    Zon Quar: not tohide
    Liza Deischer: I have been traumatised in early life
    Zon Quar: but face
    Liza Deischer: at a moment I have no memory of
    Liza Deischer: except difficult feelings
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: that is hard to heal
    Liza Deischer: so I try to find ways to deal with it
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry to hear that Liza
    Zon Quar: healing comes from looking into it
    Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
    Zon Quar: just watching
    Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Liza
    Liza Deischer: yes Zon, but it is hard to say where I need to look into
    Zon Quar: nods
    Susi Alcott: the feeling itselt
    Liza Deischer: I have been accting all my live in a certain way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Liz, it must be difficult to talk about
    Liza Deischer: thinking that to be normal for me
    Liza Deischer: now, I dont know who I am
    Zon Quar: watch the feeling, yes
    Zon Quar: netiher ddo i
    Agatha Macbeth: Who does know who they are?
    Liza Deischer: and have a body that doesn't have the power left to work with me
    Zon Quar: and nether doea anyone
    Liza Deischer: true Agatha, but to me it is a daily question
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Liza Deischer: to be precise it is there in almost every moment
    Liza Deischer: and sometimes it gets the better of me :-)
    Zon Quar: watch it then
    Liza Deischer: Oh belief me, I do
    Zon Quar: as a witness
    Zon Quar: outsider
    Liza Deischer: I'm a meditator, now the drill
    Liza Deischer: and outsider is not exactly the right word
    Liza Deischer: it is like stepping out and staying in it the same time
    Zon Quar: no..i mean not attached
    Liza Deischer: yes, thats a better word
    Susi Alcott: sometimes the beautiful truth of our spirit can be only more than tiny sparkle in our chest; deep inside 'somewhere there'...surrounded with darkness....but it is there...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what your saying Liza sounds very familiar to me
    Zon Quar: feeling and seeing that feeling
    Liza Deischer: I know Sharon :-)
    Zon Quar: at same time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Liza Deischer: thanks Susi, because that is also true
    Vellora Vella: you will find the power u need.... i believe
    Liza Deischer: thansk Vellora
    Liza Deischer: but m text and probably my appearence will tell you when I start to feel better :-)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Agatha Macbeth: I like your appearance :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have alts Liza, ad still haven't integrated them all
    Liza Deischer: thansk Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Vellora Vella: it is good... that u express your feelings... absolutely
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Qt
    Qt Core: hi ;-)
    Susi Alcott: Hi Qt
    Zon Quar: qt
    Vellora Vella: hi
    Liza Deischer: yes, i have an alt too, but this avatar is the closest to me
    Vellora Vella: aha
    Liza Deischer: so it contains a lot of who I am
    Vellora Vella: k
    Liza Deischer: wb QT
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
    Liza Deischer: strangly enough, or not strange at all, my alt feels pretty good :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello again QT
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its both, i cant explain it either ;p
    Liza Deischer: it is nice to see how you can be so different at the same time
    Liza Deischer: but alts are mostly more relaxed
    Zon Quar: we ar made of little Is
    Zon Quar: every desire is an I
    Liza Deischer: only dealing with a small part of the personality
    Agatha Macbeth: It's finding the big I that's the problem :)
    Zon Quar: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia wonders if there is a big I
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Liza Deischer: wonders with you Sharon
    Susi Alcott: and when it's found, it grows....again 'something' to seek for....if wants to seek
    Liza Deischer: but I understand Agatha;'s drift
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Zon Quar: there is integrity
    Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Liza
    Calvino Rabeni: Whether there is or isn't a big I, the little i's might as well get along with some harmony and mutual regard ?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Perhaps there is no Big I, only the Big Us?
    Calvino Rabeni: And the power of Witness is healing and unifying
    Liza Deischer: me, myself and I, we the Queen :-)
    Liza Deischer: and connected
    Liza Deischer: in that perspective you could say that my feelings are a part of us
    Zon Quar: on our way to the big us we intgrate our little Is
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Liza Deischer: showing a bit stronger in my me
    Liza Deischer: or in this avatar
    Liza Deischer: :-) Zon
    Agatha Macbeth likes 'my me' :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: @agatha, that might be a good working hypothesis - could ease some issues - ("the big Us")
    SophiaSharon Larnia likes your me too
    Agatha Macbeth: For sure!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
    Zon Quar: and we get integrated by learning to love thses little Is
    Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully...
    Zon Quar: is there another way ?
    Liza Deischer: love is still a bit far away, accepting is what I'm working on
    Susi Alcott: acceptance
    Liza Deischer: and is coming closer
    Susi Alcott: that brings also love to be closer
    Liza Deischer: I think I will not change back completely to my appearence I had :-)
    Vellora Vella: ^^
    Liza Deischer: yes Susi
    Susi Alcott: smiles *
    Agatha Macbeth: Please don't ;-)
    Liza Deischer: hahah
    Agatha Macbeth: I love the jacket too
    Susi Alcott: growing makes always experience of change...
    Liza Deischer: thanks, but did you see the backside :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
    Agatha Macbeth: That's what I meant :)
    Liza Deischer: okay :-)
    Susi Alcott: my this AV has not changed but by it's dress few times, cuz this is only 'half' of me...how I experience 'it'...and it's the part that never changes in me...
    Liza Deischer: wow
    Vellora Vella: great yes
    Susi Alcott: and as I didnt' create this Av for myself, but to be able to answer to friends calls to be able to come to PaB
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Susi Alcott: and giving less probs to who donno me
    Susi Alcott: as I found out that no woman is jealousy to a monk
    Susi Alcott: that was the beginning
    Liza Deischer: hahah
    Susi Alcott: the reason
    Susi Alcott: noticed that neither men are
    Liza Deischer: well, you're a man, I'm not jealous
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Liza Deischer: or appear to be a man
    Liza Deischer: but thanks for asking Susi
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: and thanks all for being here
    Calvino Rabeni: afk
    Susi Alcott: thank you that you didn't ask
    Calvino Rabeni: brb
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth only just noticed how alike Zon and QT are
    Zon Quar: ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: in appearance sure :)
    Liza Deischer: yes they are
    Agatha Macbeth: Brothers?
    Zon Quar: should i get hurt
    Qt Core: same skin i thiink and very little different shape
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: cute how you looked each other :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
    Liza Deischer: skin form first avatar?
    Zon Quar: hm
    Vellora Vella: i also made a skin update today.... hehe
    Susi Alcott: rofl
    Zon Quar: well he is rather handsome
    Agatha Macbeth: Who?
    Qt Core: no, maybe just second or third, i feel weird changing skins and shapes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Liza Deischer: :-) Zon
    Qt Core: you too zon ;-)
    Zon Quar: ty
    Liza Deischer: QT looks a bit more serious
    Agatha Macbeth: Only a bit tho....
    Zon Quar: im not seriosu at all
    Vellora Vella: Scooter: "it is nice to be important - but it is more important to be nice"
    Zon Quar: im totally irresponsible
    Qt Core: a man in red pants serious ?
    Susi Alcott: and Zon more 'asking'
    Agatha Macbeth: Or even pink
    Zon Quar: pink ?
    Susi Alcott: yes; revealing his warm heart
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Liza Deischer: there was a small article in the Dutch newspaper, that psyo-analyses won't be paid by the insurance any more
    Liza Deischer: but we are very willing to do that for you :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: why Liza?
    Liza Deischer: long term psycho-therapy doesn't seem to work
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh
    Liza Deischer: psycho-analyse is long term
    Agatha Macbeth: Ow!
    Zon Quar: sounds true
    Susi Alcott: at least half a year
    Liza Deischer: I agree, but there are some that can't heal, but need support
    Agatha Macbeth: What do Dutch psychiatrists think of that?
    Qt Core: so they still pay for electroshock ? ;-)
    Liza Deischer: so you need to organize that
    Zon Quar: answers r never inpast
    Liza Deischer: probably QT
    Susi Alcott: I received one psycho analytist to one of my readio brogramms once
    Liza Deischer: I'm not sure yet
    Susi Alcott: she told me what I know of that
    Liza Deischer: but most psychiatrist don;t do psycho-analyse
    Liza Deischer: that is psycho-therapie
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i couldn't stick to something like in in rl that long
    Liza Deischer: I think, theu don't like it :-)
    Qt Core: aren't psycho analist a (bad) substitute for good friends ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Psychotherapists then?
    Zon Quar: history doesnt cure ppl
    Zon Quar: they jous go on and on and on
    Liza Deischer: no, they aren't, not if it is a good psycho-therapist,
    Vellora Vella: hmm
    Liza Deischer: he or she is much more
    Liza Deischer: then just a good friend
    Liza Deischer: on a distance
    Liza Deischer: but being there
    Liza Deischer: like in meditation
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Agatha Macbeth: I see
    Liza Deischer: but most psycho-therapist only agree upon the distance
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Liza Deischer: that makes them invalid to the kind of problems I have
    Calvino Rabeni: ...back
    Susi Alcott: wb Cal
    Liza Deischer: wb Cal
    Vellora Vella: wb
    Liza Deischer: but I'm please to say I found a good therapist now
    Liza Deischer: took some searching
    Agatha Macbeth: Glad to hear it Liza
    Liza Deischer: and she happens to be an American :-)
    Susi Alcott: well...what I take that is the prob when no such theraphy dont work out, is that it's still the way that even if the patient askes 'what time it is', the therapist asks 'what do you think it to be'
    Liza Deischer: talking about internationality
    Liza Deischer: sorry Susi, can you explain?
    Liza Deischer: bye Zon
    Zon Quar: slips away, giving Liza a hug on his way....bye
    Agatha Macbeth: Cya Zon
    Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
    Qt Core: bye Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zon
    Vellora Vella: bye Zon
    Susi Alcott: that's just one example of how so many of those therapists works, cuz they have taken so literaly the teaching 'not to give answers'
    Susi Alcott: bye Zon
    Liza Deischer: yes, true
    Susi Alcott: and the patient sure can ask the time in order to know how much time there's left for the session
    Liza Deischer: but they take everything litteraly and the take away the 'power' of the patient
    Susi Alcott: specially if there's something rising from his/her mind
    Susi Alcott: that's for sure
    Liza Deischer: quite easily, because it is the patient desease that causes the problem, not there analysis
    Susi Alcott: specially painfull person needs answers....
    Liza Deischer: yes Susi
    Liza Deischer: yes susi
    Liza Deischer: sorry, thought I had chatlag :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Susi Alcott: ah well...sometimes the prob is not so much patient's 'own'....only 'not understood' ones experienes and haveing doubts
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: There are many types of therapists and therapy ... very different in nature ... although some studies indicate that it is the personal relationship that makes the "therapy" work or not ... or gives it the power
    Calvino Rabeni: Agree Susi
    Liza Deischer: I agree cal
    Liza Deischer: but that means there needs to be a relationship
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've had some who I've wondered even stayed in business
    Liza Deischer: something a lot of therapist don't believe in
    Susi Alcott: and when there's such experiences that the therapist has never had,,,when patient trusts to such therapist or therapy....there's not much options that any more understanding could come...
    Liza Deischer: but luckely for a lot of us
    Liza Deischer: there are really good therapists too
    Calvino Rabeni: The "problem" often should not be "personalized" as much as it is
    Liza Deischer: that's what they say
    Liza Deischer: but doing the opposite, by not recognizing it
    Calvino Rabeni: If we live in a neurotic society for example, that is suffering not original with the person
    Liza Deischer: a lot do
    Liza Deischer: exactly
    Susi Alcott: agree with Cal 130%
    Calvino Rabeni: When people suffer, the feel alone and disconnected
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: and like they are the only one, maybe at fault in some way
    Liza Deischer: sorry"
    Calvino Rabeni: And then they feel measured against a "normal" world in opposition
    Liza Deischer: quite right
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Liza Deischer: a lot of therapist uses statistics
    Agatha Macbeth: Too true
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that seems to be a source of a lot of agnst
    Liza Deischer: they it is prooven
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes learning a wider compassion for all, can turn back upon the self and be very healing
    Liza Deischer: because the statistics say so
    Liza Deischer: but you can individualize statistics
    Liza Deischer: as smart as they are
    Liza Deischer: they haven't figured that out
    Liza Deischer: that one out
    Liza Deischer: yes Cal
    Liza Deischer: and you need to feel the connection
    Liza Deischer: that is very important
    Liza Deischer: I stop here :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, if it isn't felt, it does not seem actual
    Liza Deischer: (being aware that this is recorded :-))
    Liza Deischer: (and almost becoming too personal)
    Susi Alcott: (and you can ask also to delete the part you dont want to been published)
    Liza Deischer: yes, but I have no objections, not at all
    Liza Deischer: sometimes life is hard
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is worth thinking about what is right and not for revealing the personal
    Liza Deischer: it might as well be said so
    Agatha Macbeth: You are brave to speak about it Liza
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Liza Deischer: yes Cal
    Liza Deischer: thanks Agatha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thank you Liza, inspiring to me
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Liza Deischer: and now I need to pee
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Susi Alcott: grins
    Agatha Macbeth: Have one for me ;_)
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I was going to say - it is time for me to "cross the great water" :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been wanting to check out the art works :))
    Agatha Macbeth: Or the water works?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: havent been there yet
    Calvino Rabeni: So, I will pack my bags and go towards the boat
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Cal
    Agatha Macbeth: Aye aye cap'n
    Calvino Rabeni: (still need a boat, in RL) :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye all, and thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Pleasant sailing
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Qt Core: bye Cal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: has anyone here made anything?
    Susi Alcott: have not yet, but having an idea ...I think
    Qt Core: me and art ? better not to go there ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: heheh
    Agatha Macbeth: I can make a mess and that's it
    Liza Deischer: not yet
    SophiaSharon Larnia: cheers for messes
    Agatha Macbeth: Yup
    Liza Deischer: well that would be nice
    Liza Deischer: a mess
    SophiaSharon Larnia: being as a mess
    Liza Deischer: when I talked about it with Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Another fine mess you've gotten me into'
    Liza Deischer: we initially thought of a junkyard
    Qt Core: with some sort of light coming out of the mess center ?
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i suspect being is not entirely tidy!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and right in all its parts ;p
    Agatha Macbeth: I think I agree
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: or no
    Liza Deischer: I mean, I agree
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Agatha Macbeth: Or maybe
    Qt Core: me and my messy desk too
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Susi Alcott: 'hear' Moon to say like he uses; 'Only the master can deal with the mess'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, if he put it there!
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so I'm going over to have a look :))finally
    Susi Alcott: 'organized unorder' :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Chaos theory :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Sharon, and thanks
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye :)) take care
    Qt Core: bye Sharon
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Sharon, take care
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: _/!|_
    Liza Deischer: and I'm worn out
    Liza Deischer: thanks or your support guys
    SophiaSharon Larnia: _/!\_ even
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care Liza :)
    Liza Deischer: (and girls)
    Agatha Macbeth: *hugs*
    Liza Deischer: I will
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Liza
    Qt Core: bye Liza
    Agatha Macbeth: Good night all
    Qt Core: and 'notte Agatha
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Aga
    Susi Alcott: thank you guys also
    Susi Alcott: wish you good night
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Qt Core: 'night Susi
    Susi Alcott: starpower
    Qt Core: bye Vellora
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