2010.03.26 13:00 - power,sillyness and psychoanalysis

The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Susi Alcott: smiles
Susi Alcott: hi Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi :)
--BELL--
Susi Alcott: Hi Qt
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi qt :)
Qt Core: hi Susi, Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello vellora
Vellora Vella: hi
Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
Qt Core: hi Vellora
Yakuzza Lethecus: everything here will be logged and hold against you
Yakuzza Lethecus: if not by us then it´s safed at the lindens always accessible for the us government
Vellora Vella: its okay
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok :)
Susi Alcott: smiles to Yaku's words
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i was at an event on governance in virtual worlds today
Susi Alcott: ah yes Vellora; these Yaku and Qt are also good friends to me
Yakuzza Lethecus: and one guy from a law school mentioned that logging issue bye the lindens part
Yakuzza Lethecus: even all private messages are logged
Susi Alcott: Yaku and Qt; this Vellora is also very good long time (years) to me
Vellora Vella: aha - okay
Vellora Vella: nice to meet you
Qt Core: nice to meet
Yakuzza Lethecus: you´re welcome vellora
Vellora Vella: thk u
Susi Alcott: pls you Vellora sit between these warm hearted men :)
Qt Core: we are a little obsessed wit simmetry ;-)
Vellora Vella: oh.... thank you
Qt Core: wow, i'm rarely told i'm warm hearted, quite the contrary, usually
Qt Core: it is surely nicer to hear ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: hello
Qt Core: hi widget
Susi Alcott: hi Widget
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey widget
Widget Whiteberry: nice to see you all
--BELL--
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal :)
Qt Core: hi cal
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Cal
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: :) Hello and to each in your very own way :) good day
Widget Whiteberry takes a few deep breaths to focus on being here
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Yakuzza Lethecus: and welcome liza :)
Qt Core: :) sometimes i come here at pab session to feel obliged to take such breathes ;-)
Vellora Vella: hi Liza
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Liza
Liza Deischer: hi all
Qt Core: hi liza
Liza Deischer: is there a topic?
Qt Core: not yet
Vellora Vella: ^^
Liza Deischer: ok
Qt Core: do you have one Liza ?
Liza Deischer: hmm, not yet :-)
Qt Core: :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: breathing
Calvino Rabeni: How about Power?
Arisia Vita: Hi all!
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Ari
Liza Deischer: hi arisia
Vellora Vella: Hi Arisia
Qt Core: hi arisia
Susi Alcott: U'de please sit on my left side ?
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Qt Core: Power, Calvino ? in which context ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: welcome arisia
Susi Alcott: sry wrong window...
Calvino Rabeni: In the context in which You have it, to make a difference you want made.
Calvino Rabeni: Or in the context that others have it, who make a difference you want made on your behalf
Susi Alcott: well...might that be so that each one's power is what somebody gives...or not
Calvino Rabeni: For example, some people can organize a group, and it benefits people to create a community. THey use their power for that purpose
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Zon
Zon Quar: hyea
Liza Deischer: hi zon
Calvino Rabeni: And Susi if I might say so, clearly has a power too
Widget Whiteberry: Is 'power' interchangable with 'energy'?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zon
Calvino Rabeni: Which is used for helping people
Qt Core: thinking about the power of people as voters (having local elections this sunday)
Susi Alcott: well...have had many groups 'back then', but nowbody had any power but 'to be free'
Calvino Rabeni: Energy - perhaps - I think one can't use power without having energy
Calvino Rabeni: So cultivating energy might be a prerequesite to using it as power
Calvino Rabeni: spiritual or otherwise
Liza Deischer: you need something to put the group together
Liza Deischer: I don't know if that is power
Liza Deischer: and hold it together
Calvino Rabeni: So the question is about the types of power that we have not ceded to others and to institutions
Vellora Vella: afk for a minute
Calvino Rabeni: The King of Thailand has great moral power, and can influence the nation during a military coup
Calvino Rabeni: LIkewise anyone here can go to Meetup.com and convene a group for any social purpose whatever
Calvino Rabeni: Or speak up about the good choices in a family matter, for instance
Liza Deischer: I try to get a picture for myself of what power is
Calvino Rabeni: Or simply the power to keep centered, when the world looks chaotic and crazy
--BELL--
Vellora Vella: back
Calvino Rabeni: There is "power with" as well as "power over"
Susi Alcott: wb Vellora
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
Liza Deischer: to me power is action
Calvino Rabeni: Power for selfish reasons, and power to unite, etc.
Liza Deischer: something that you need to decide or force in a way
Liza Deischer: land I think it is an 'outgoing' action
Liza Deischer: creating something
Vellora Vella: power is in anything around us - i think
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, power to create something new
Vellora Vella: we ar surrounded by it
Calvino Rabeni: creativity
Yakuzza Lethecus: but to some extend we have to come to a common ground on these terms
Calvino Rabeni: Are we filled with it as well as surrounded by it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t get into words like ,,great knowledge" and alike in the time space knowledge book
Susi Alcott: so....you take that power can be spiritual force ...?
Calvino Rabeni: my own opinion yes, susi
Yakuzza Lethecus: so, power,spiritual force so is that what i often understand as a positive tension ?
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: :) Hello
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi aga :)
Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense too Yakusan
Vellora Vella: Hello Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Guten Abend Yaku :)
Liza Deischer: hi Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Hello all
Qt Core: hi Agatha
Zon Quar: agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Buona Sera QT :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zon
Agatha Macbeth: C'mon cushions!
Calvino Rabeni: Are there internal "resistances" to personal power?
Liza Deischer: (and now in Ducht please :-))
Calvino Rabeni: Like, Great Knowledge is a kind of "tease" in a way
Liza Deischer: *Dutch
Calvino Rabeni: it suggests you might need to have power to do something with the knowledge
Calvino Rabeni: Imagination can be a tease also, creating a positive tension
Zon Quar: knowledge is power
Susi Alcott: there I'de again come to that thinking, that such kind of power one can have only when it's given by others...
Susi Alcott: -> Zon; when one can use it yes
Calvino Rabeni: I'd agree with "knowledge is (a prerequisite of) power"
Calvino Rabeni: And also - power can lead to more knowledge?
Liza Deischer: is knowledge power, or can you use it as such
Calvino Rabeni: But having knowledge without power to use it can be suffering
Vellora Vella: you can give power to people just be with them... saying nothing
Susi Alcott: indeed Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Yes that is a power too :)
Arisia Vita: When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Sri Chinmoy Ghose
Agatha Macbeth: VERY true Ari! :)
Liza Deischer: I have a feeling that power hee is translated as 'active energy'
Zon Quar: love is power
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello aali
Liza Deischer: I'm not sure if that is power to me
Yakuzza Lethecus: first time here ?
Liza Deischer: hi Aaliyah
Zon Quar: it drwas things together
Zon Quar: pulling force
Calvino Rabeni: What is power to you, Liza?
Susi Alcott: hi Aaliyah
Liza Deischer: I think power is not just active, but used with force
Zon Quar: love is a glue tha holds ppl together
Liza Deischer: to me love is not the same as power
Zon Quar: so it is a power
Vellora Vella: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.”
Liza Deischer: it can be powerful, but that is something different
Vellora Vella: was A.Einstein saying
Calvino Rabeni: "the power of love" is something many have heard about
Zon Quar: all depends on how we like to define words
Calvino Rabeni: Yes- that is power too - how to decide how to define words
Liza Deischer: that doesn't mean that love equals power
Susi Alcott: finds also probs to think that love is power...but force...
Calvino Rabeni: TO make a decision about how to define them - this is a power
Vellora Vella: i belive in natural justice and balance
Vellora Vella: as a power and force
Liza Deischer: power is something to me that can put something into, or out balanc
Liza Deischer: balance
Calvino Rabeni: To allow others to define one's terms is to hand over power
Susi Alcott: but I have spoken much to people how love is the healing energy and knowledge/truth is healing 'thing'
Susi Alcott: and to make love is the most hight power of healing
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Vellora Vella: sure ^^
Liza Deischer: yes, but love can be powerfull, but not in itself
Susi Alcott: so very true
Zon Quar: why not
Calvino Rabeni: say more Liza?
Zon Quar: is power always used by onwe person over others
--BELL--
Susi Alcott: as love itself is not any power, but when there's aciton; will to love, it can turn to be powerfull
Liza Deischer: well, that would mean that a lot of things/ emotions equals power
Susi Alcott: cuz loving gives much strength to who loves...
Calvino Rabeni: Zon, that is for someones definition of power - but there are other definitiosn too
Liza Deischer: I think it is more about how you use it
Calvino Rabeni: power with, not power over
Susi Alcott: one turnes then to be strong; powerfull
Calvino Rabeni: or the "higher power" etc.
Widget Whiteberry: I think of power as something that can be shared in many ways
Widget Whiteberry: and focused in many ways
Susi Alcott: then it is the person who is powertull...not love itself
Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
Vellora Vella: it is the way we handle and use the power... all we got endless of it
Susi Alcott: agree with Widget, and thinks that the only good way to use power is to share it...
Vellora Vella: the balance
Calvino Rabeni: :) to widget also
Liza Deischer: or the activity the person uses
Calvino Rabeni: Balance seems important to power too
Vellora Vella: and believing is much more powerful than knowing in a kind of way i think
Liza Deischer: not if balance is not coming from force
Zon Quar: Power (philosophy), the ability to control one's environment or other entities
Liza Deischer: (to me that is)
Liza Deischer: balance just can be
Calvino Rabeni: The topic of "power" has power - it caused the bell and pause to be ignored :))
Liza Deischer: :-)))
Agatha Macbeth: /smiles @ Cal
Liza Deischer: i felt that power cal :-)
Susi Alcott: ->Zon; and that is something that I've taken to been used more wrong way; ruling over...
Zon Quar: tha was from wipikedia..lol
Calvino Rabeni: Recognizing and acknowledging power - can make it more conscious
Liza Deischer: (couldn't shut up)
Arisia Vita: Now I must use my power to fly to another meeting, be well and happy till we meet again...
Liza Deischer: bye ari
Calvino Rabeni: Ruling over is a low type of power, I think
Calvino Rabeni: Bye
Susi Alcott: that's why my mind connects easily bad and sad things to the word power...
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Ari
Arisia Vita: bye all
Vellora Vella: bye
Susi Alcott: enjoy Ari _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the word power brings sadness due to its abuse in certain places
Vellora Vella: yes
Vellora Vella: power creates power
Calvino Rabeni: but it might be good to "redeem" or heal it from those situations
Widget Whiteberry: Cal: 'those situations'?
Calvino Rabeni: All the stories about abuse of low power
Calvino Rabeni: It is a spiritual power, not to be dominated by those stories in a negative way
Zon Quar: well i like to be able to control my environment
Qt Core: have to go, rl calls, bye all
Liza Deischer: bye QT
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
Vellora Vella: bye QT
Susi Alcott: ah yes; the rule can use power as supporting, and then I take it rises from force of love and understanding
Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT
Zon Quar: bye qt
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Qt
Liza Deischer: What is 'higher' power?
Zon Quar: that wich controls us
Susi Alcott: might that be something that 'few' people have created from there beliefs...
Susi Alcott: well...may I tell a story ?
Vellora Vella: sure
Liza Deischer: please do Susi
Susi Alcott: as I met such man, who did believe that 'the upstairs office' do rule over people
Susi Alcott: I asked him; "Does the upstairs office stop some people to do something ?"
Susi Alcott: he was in silence for a while, and then said;
Susi Alcott: "Sometimes"
Susi Alcott: then I asked; "Does the upstairs office force somebody to do something?"
Susi Alcott: again he thought for a while and said; "Sometimes"
Susi Alcott: after that he didnt' anymore believe that the upstairs office would rule over or controll people
Susi Alcott: end of the story
Liza Deischer: I hope he stil gets his paycheck :-)
Calvino Rabeni: To me, "sometimes" is power
Agatha Macbeth grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care widget
Widget Whiteberry: I need to be elsewhere ...
Calvino Rabeni: If there is a chance that one may lose the job, that is a real conntrol
Susi Alcott: that still is not to controll
Liza Deischer: right cal :-)
Widget Whiteberry: ty, Yak, Cal, all
Liza Deischer: bye Widget
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Widget
Susi Alcott: enjoy your time Widget _/!\_
Vellora Vella: sure cause upstairs-office is more an reclamation-office telling u things... but not demanding
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Widge
Zon Quar: yes the possibility to control is power
Calvino Rabeni: And the systems of capitalism and classism are forms of power
Agatha Macbeth nods
Calvino Rabeni: As in, past eras, other forms of social power - feudalism, etc.
Liza Deischer: but if you don't do what you are supposed to do, you 'ran' into the office
Calvino Rabeni: And yet, they don't control every kind of power
Liza Deischer: "The office' will notice that and act
Calvino Rabeni: many powers are still free
Vellora Vella: sure
Calvino Rabeni: perhaps then they need to be "secret" some times
--BELL--
Susi Alcott: and specially what comes to this 'higher power' people speak much about...forgetting the given free will
Liza Deischer: reight Susi :-)
Susi Alcott: and yes; to me...that is much 'higher' to be human being than an angel or any kind of spirit 'in the upstairs office'...even so many people speaks also aobut 'higher self'....
Vellora Vella: if u could control everything in life... it wont be a real life.... no surprises.... some boring perhabs
Susi Alcott: as also this 'higher self' is learning from experiences in our human life..
Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks away, *damn no onigokko today, what a friday*, but wait a minute...
Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
Vellora Vella: looooooool
Susi Alcott: nice power _/!\_
Vellora Vella: true
Calvino Rabeni: Yakuzza has the "power" to move the avatars
Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone :)
Agatha Macbeth: Schlaf gut :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Liza Deischer: bye Yaku
Vellora Vella: gute Nacht
Vellora Vella: cu
Vellora Vella: flower power
Liza Deischer: :-)
Susi Alcott: ...Liza...
Vellora Vella: was at the hippie time actual
Vellora Vella: lol
Susi Alcott: you have a text above your head....
Liza Deischer: yes
Susi Alcott: that word is much used in 'finnish'....meaning sadness...
Liza Deischer: yes, I know
Vellora Vella: there is this song.. yes
Liza Deischer: meaning exactly that
Vellora Vella: feeling empty ?
Calvino Rabeni: Singing "the blues" a kind of power ?
Susi Alcott: ...you dont feel will to share the reason to your feeling ?
Agatha Macbeth: Sure is
Liza Deischer: hard to answe
Susi Alcott: sadness is yes very powerfull
Susi Alcott: then pls dont even try
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Liza Deischer: but some people don't understand the change in the choice of my clothing
Vellora Vella: hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: that is why the text is there
Susi Alcott: Hi Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi All sorry for being Really late, lol, basically came to say hi
Liza Deischer: hi Sharon
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Sharon :)
Zon Quar: hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: but lets say I sometimes have a meating with the dark side of the moon
Agatha Macbeth: Pink Floyd?
Liza Deischer: felt the need in sl to show it
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Zon Quar: its helpful sometimes
Liza Deischer: because sl can be used for such expression
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
SophiaSharon Larnia: it can be indeed Liza
Zon Quar: not tohide
Liza Deischer: I have been traumatised in early life
Zon Quar: but face
Liza Deischer: at a moment I have no memory of
Liza Deischer: except difficult feelings
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Liza Deischer: that is hard to heal
Liza Deischer: so I try to find ways to deal with it
Agatha Macbeth: Sorry to hear that Liza
Zon Quar: healing comes from looking into it
Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
Zon Quar: just watching
Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Liza
Liza Deischer: yes Zon, but it is hard to say where I need to look into
Zon Quar: nods
Susi Alcott: the feeling itselt
Liza Deischer: I have been accting all my live in a certain way
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Liz, it must be difficult to talk about
Liza Deischer: thinking that to be normal for me
Liza Deischer: now, I dont know who I am
Zon Quar: watch the feeling, yes
Zon Quar: netiher ddo i
Agatha Macbeth: Who does know who they are?
Liza Deischer: and have a body that doesn't have the power left to work with me
Zon Quar: and nether doea anyone
Liza Deischer: true Agatha, but to me it is a daily question
Agatha Macbeth nods
Liza Deischer: to be precise it is there in almost every moment
Liza Deischer: and sometimes it gets the better of me :-)
Zon Quar: watch it then
Liza Deischer: Oh belief me, I do
Zon Quar: as a witness
Zon Quar: outsider
Liza Deischer: I'm a meditator, now the drill
Liza Deischer: and outsider is not exactly the right word
Liza Deischer: it is like stepping out and staying in it the same time
Zon Quar: no..i mean not attached
Liza Deischer: yes, thats a better word
Susi Alcott: sometimes the beautiful truth of our spirit can be only more than tiny sparkle in our chest; deep inside 'somewhere there'...surrounded with darkness....but it is there...
SophiaSharon Larnia: what your saying Liza sounds very familiar to me
Zon Quar: feeling and seeing that feeling
Liza Deischer: I know Sharon :-)
Zon Quar: at same time
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Liza Deischer: thanks Susi, because that is also true
Vellora Vella: you will find the power u need.... i believe
Liza Deischer: thansk Vellora
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: but m text and probably my appearence will tell you when I start to feel better :-)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Agatha Macbeth: I like your appearance :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have alts Liza, ad still haven't integrated them all
Liza Deischer: thansk Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Vellora Vella: it is good... that u express your feelings... absolutely
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Qt
Qt Core: hi ;-)
Susi Alcott: Hi Qt
Zon Quar: qt
Vellora Vella: hi
Liza Deischer: yes, i have an alt too, but this avatar is the closest to me
Vellora Vella: aha
Liza Deischer: so it contains a lot of who I am
Vellora Vella: k
Liza Deischer: wb QT
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
Liza Deischer: strangly enough, or not strange at all, my alt feels pretty good :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello again QT
SophiaSharon Larnia: its both, i cant explain it either ;p
Liza Deischer: it is nice to see how you can be so different at the same time
Liza Deischer: but alts are mostly more relaxed
Zon Quar: we ar made of little Is
Zon Quar: every desire is an I
Liza Deischer: only dealing with a small part of the personality
Agatha Macbeth: It's finding the big I that's the problem :)
Zon Quar: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia wonders if there is a big I
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Liza Deischer: wonders with you Sharon
Susi Alcott: and when it's found, it grows....again 'something' to seek for....if wants to seek
Liza Deischer: but I understand Agatha;'s drift
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Zon Quar: there is integrity
Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Liza
Calvino Rabeni: Whether there is or isn't a big I, the little i's might as well get along with some harmony and mutual regard ?
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Liza Deischer: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Perhaps there is no Big I, only the Big Us?
Calvino Rabeni: And the power of Witness is healing and unifying
Liza Deischer: me, myself and I, we the Queen :-)
Liza Deischer: and connected
Liza Deischer: in that perspective you could say that my feelings are a part of us
Zon Quar: on our way to the big us we intgrate our little Is
Agatha Macbeth nods
Liza Deischer: showing a bit stronger in my me
Liza Deischer: or in this avatar
Liza Deischer: :-) Zon
Agatha Macbeth likes 'my me' :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: @agatha, that might be a good working hypothesis - could ease some issues - ("the big Us")
SophiaSharon Larnia likes your me too
Agatha Macbeth: For sure!
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
Zon Quar: and we get integrated by learning to love thses little Is
Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully...
Zon Quar: is there another way ?
Liza Deischer: love is still a bit far away, accepting is what I'm working on
Susi Alcott: acceptance
Liza Deischer: and is coming closer
Susi Alcott: that brings also love to be closer
Liza Deischer: I think I will not change back completely to my appearence I had :-)
Vellora Vella: ^^
Liza Deischer: yes Susi
Susi Alcott: smiles *
Agatha Macbeth: Please don't ;-)
Liza Deischer: hahah
Agatha Macbeth: I love the jacket too
Susi Alcott: growing makes always experience of change...
Liza Deischer: thanks, but did you see the backside :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
Agatha Macbeth: That's what I meant :)
Liza Deischer: okay :-)
Susi Alcott: my this AV has not changed but by it's dress few times, cuz this is only 'half' of me...how I experience 'it'...and it's the part that never changes in me...
Liza Deischer: wow
Vellora Vella: great yes
--BELL--
Susi Alcott: and as I didnt' create this Av for myself, but to be able to answer to friends calls to be able to come to PaB
Liza Deischer: :-)
Susi Alcott: and giving less probs to who donno me
Susi Alcott: as I found out that no woman is jealousy to a monk
Susi Alcott: that was the beginning
Liza Deischer: hahah
Susi Alcott: the reason
Susi Alcott: noticed that neither men are
Liza Deischer: well, you're a man, I'm not jealous
Liza Deischer: :-)
Liza Deischer: or appear to be a man
Liza Deischer: but thanks for asking Susi
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Liza Deischer: and thanks all for being here
Calvino Rabeni: afk
Susi Alcott: thank you that you didn't ask
Calvino Rabeni: brb
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: :-)
Agatha Macbeth only just noticed how alike Zon and QT are
Zon Quar: ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: in appearance sure :)
Liza Deischer: yes they are
Agatha Macbeth: Brothers?
Zon Quar: should i get hurt
Qt Core: same skin i thiink and very little different shape
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Susi Alcott: cute how you looked each other :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Liza Deischer: skin form first avatar?
Zon Quar: hm
Vellora Vella: i also made a skin update today.... hehe
Susi Alcott: rofl
Zon Quar: well he is rather handsome
Agatha Macbeth: Who?
Qt Core: no, maybe just second or third, i feel weird changing skins and shapes
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Liza Deischer: :-) Zon
Qt Core: you too zon ;-)
Zon Quar: ty
Liza Deischer: QT looks a bit more serious
Agatha Macbeth: Only a bit tho....
Zon Quar: im not seriosu at all
Vellora Vella: Scooter: "it is nice to be important - but it is more important to be nice"
Zon Quar: im totally irresponsible
Qt Core: a man in red pants serious ?
Susi Alcott: and Zon more 'asking'
Agatha Macbeth: Or even pink
Zon Quar: pink ?
Susi Alcott: yes; revealing his warm heart
Liza Deischer: :-)
Qt Core: ;-)
Liza Deischer: there was a small article in the Dutch newspaper, that psyo-analyses won't be paid by the insurance any more
Liza Deischer: but we are very willing to do that for you :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Oh?
SophiaSharon Larnia: why Liza?
Liza Deischer: long term psycho-therapy doesn't seem to work
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh
Liza Deischer: psycho-analyse is long term
Agatha Macbeth: Ow!
Zon Quar: sounds true
Susi Alcott: at least half a year
Liza Deischer: I agree, but there are some that can't heal, but need support
Agatha Macbeth: What do Dutch psychiatrists think of that?
Qt Core: so they still pay for electroshock ? ;-)
Liza Deischer: so you need to organize that
Zon Quar: answers r never inpast
Liza Deischer: probably QT
Susi Alcott: I received one psycho analytist to one of my readio brogramms once
Liza Deischer: I'm not sure yet
Susi Alcott: she told me what I know of that
Liza Deischer: but most psychiatrist don;t do psycho-analyse
Liza Deischer: that is psycho-therapie
SophiaSharon Larnia: i couldn't stick to something like in in rl that long
Liza Deischer: I think, theu don't like it :-)
Qt Core: aren't psycho analist a (bad) substitute for good friends ?
Agatha Macbeth: Psychotherapists then?
Zon Quar: history doesnt cure ppl
Zon Quar: they jous go on and on and on
Liza Deischer: no, they aren't, not if it is a good psycho-therapist,
Vellora Vella: hmm
Liza Deischer: he or she is much more
Liza Deischer: then just a good friend
Liza Deischer: on a distance
Liza Deischer: but being there
Liza Deischer: like in meditation
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Agatha Macbeth: I see
Liza Deischer: but most psycho-therapist only agree upon the distance
Agatha Macbeth nods
Liza Deischer: that makes them invalid to the kind of problems I have
Calvino Rabeni: ...back
Susi Alcott: wb Cal
Liza Deischer: wb Cal
Vellora Vella: wb
Liza Deischer: but I'm please to say I found a good therapist now
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: took some searching
Agatha Macbeth: Glad to hear it Liza
Liza Deischer: and she happens to be an American :-)
Susi Alcott: well...what I take that is the prob when no such theraphy dont work out, is that it's still the way that even if the patient askes 'what time it is', the therapist asks 'what do you think it to be'
Liza Deischer: talking about internationality
Liza Deischer: sorry Susi, can you explain?
Liza Deischer: bye Zon
Zon Quar: slips away, giving Liza a hug on his way....bye
Agatha Macbeth: Cya Zon
Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
Qt Core: bye Zon
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zon
Vellora Vella: bye Zon
Susi Alcott: that's just one example of how so many of those therapists works, cuz they have taken so literaly the teaching 'not to give answers'
Susi Alcott: bye Zon
Liza Deischer: yes, true
Susi Alcott: and the patient sure can ask the time in order to know how much time there's left for the session
Liza Deischer: but they take everything litteraly and the take away the 'power' of the patient
Susi Alcott: specially if there's something rising from his/her mind
Susi Alcott: that's for sure
Liza Deischer: quite easily, because it is the patient desease that causes the problem, not there analysis
Susi Alcott: specially painfull person needs answers....
Liza Deischer: yes Susi
Liza Deischer: yes susi
Liza Deischer: sorry, thought I had chatlag :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Susi Alcott: ah well...sometimes the prob is not so much patient's 'own'....only 'not understood' ones experienes and haveing doubts
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: There are many types of therapists and therapy ... very different in nature ... although some studies indicate that it is the personal relationship that makes the "therapy" work or not ... or gives it the power
Calvino Rabeni: Agree Susi
Liza Deischer: I agree cal
Liza Deischer: but that means there needs to be a relationship
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've had some who I've wondered even stayed in business
Liza Deischer: something a lot of therapist don't believe in
Susi Alcott: and when there's such experiences that the therapist has never had,,,when patient trusts to such therapist or therapy....there's not much options that any more understanding could come...
Liza Deischer: but luckely for a lot of us
Liza Deischer: there are really good therapists too
Calvino Rabeni: The "problem" often should not be "personalized" as much as it is
Liza Deischer: that's what they say
Liza Deischer: but doing the opposite, by not recognizing it
Calvino Rabeni: If we live in a neurotic society for example, that is suffering not original with the person
Liza Deischer: a lot do
Liza Deischer: exactly
Susi Alcott: agree with Cal 130%
Calvino Rabeni: When people suffer, the feel alone and disconnected
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and like they are the only one, maybe at fault in some way
Liza Deischer: sorry"
Calvino Rabeni: And then they feel measured against a "normal" world in opposition
Liza Deischer: quite right
Agatha Macbeth nods
Liza Deischer: a lot of therapist uses statistics
Agatha Macbeth: Too true
SophiaSharon Larnia: that seems to be a source of a lot of agnst
Liza Deischer: they it is prooven
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes learning a wider compassion for all, can turn back upon the self and be very healing
Liza Deischer: because the statistics say so
Liza Deischer: but you can individualize statistics
Liza Deischer: as smart as they are
Liza Deischer: they haven't figured that out
Liza Deischer: that one out
Liza Deischer: yes Cal
Liza Deischer: and you need to feel the connection
Liza Deischer: that is very important
Liza Deischer: I stop here :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: yes, if it isn't felt, it does not seem actual
Liza Deischer: (being aware that this is recorded :-))
Liza Deischer: (and almost becoming too personal)
Susi Alcott: (and you can ask also to delete the part you dont want to been published)
Liza Deischer: yes, but I have no objections, not at all
Liza Deischer: sometimes life is hard
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is worth thinking about what is right and not for revealing the personal
Liza Deischer: it might as well be said so
Agatha Macbeth: You are brave to speak about it Liza
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Liza Deischer: yes Cal
Liza Deischer: thanks Agatha
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thank you Liza, inspiring to me
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Liza Deischer: and now I need to pee
Liza Deischer: :-)
Susi Alcott: grins
Agatha Macbeth: Have one for me ;_)
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I was going to say - it is time for me to "cross the great water" :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been wanting to check out the art works :))
Agatha Macbeth: Or the water works?
SophiaSharon Larnia: havent been there yet
Calvino Rabeni: So, I will pack my bags and go towards the boat
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Cal
Agatha Macbeth: Aye aye cap'n
Calvino Rabeni: (still need a boat, in RL) :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Bye all, and thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Pleasant sailing
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Qt Core: bye Cal
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: has anyone here made anything?
Susi Alcott: have not yet, but having an idea ...I think
Qt Core: me and art ? better not to go there ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: heheh
Agatha Macbeth: I can make a mess and that's it
Liza Deischer: not yet
SophiaSharon Larnia: cheers for messes
Agatha Macbeth: Yup
Liza Deischer: well that would be nice
Liza Deischer: a mess
SophiaSharon Larnia: being as a mess
Liza Deischer: when I talked about it with Bleu
Agatha Macbeth: 'Another fine mess you've gotten me into'
Liza Deischer: we initially thought of a junkyard
Qt Core: with some sort of light coming out of the mess center ?
Liza Deischer: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh!
SophiaSharon Larnia: i suspect being is not entirely tidy!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: and right in all its parts ;p
Agatha Macbeth: I think I agree
Liza Deischer: yes
Liza Deischer: or no
Liza Deischer: I mean, I agree
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Agatha Macbeth: Or maybe
Qt Core: me and my messy desk too
Liza Deischer: :-)
Susi Alcott: 'hear' Moon to say like he uses; 'Only the master can deal with the mess'
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, if he put it there!
Agatha Macbeth grins
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: so I'm going over to have a look :))finally
Susi Alcott: 'organized unorder' :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Liza Deischer: :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Chaos theory :)
Liza Deischer: bye Sharon, and thanks
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye :)) take care
Qt Core: bye Sharon
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Sharon, take care
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: _/!|_
Liza Deischer: and I'm worn out
Liza Deischer: thanks or your support guys
SophiaSharon Larnia: _/!\_ even
Agatha Macbeth: Take care Liza :)
Liza Deischer: (and girls)
Agatha Macbeth: *hugs*
Liza Deischer: I will
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Liza
Qt Core: bye Liza
Agatha Macbeth: Good night all
Qt Core: and 'notte Agatha
Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Aga
Susi Alcott: thank you guys also
Susi Alcott: wish you good night
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Qt Core: 'night Susi
Susi Alcott: starpower
Qt Core: bye Vellora