2010.03.29 01:00 - Sleeping in a Painted Room

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. I arrived a little late and Calvino was already there.

Tarmel Udimo: hey Calvino:)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi there, Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: just walked through the front door before the session started:)
Tarmel Udimo: with the time change, its now 7:00pm rather than 8:00
Tarmel Udimo: how has your day been?
Calvino Rabeni: Good day - I was away from media for the weekend
Tarmel Udimo: nice!
Tarmel Udimo: a retreat or just a visit to the country?
Calvino Rabeni: A retreat with a group at a remote location
Tarmel Udimo: shamanic?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, partly.
Tarmel Udimo: and what was the other partly?
Tarmel Udimo: :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Partly "physical work" and partly group ritual and partly something like "therapy" for certain individuals
Tarmel Udimo: I see, sounds like a good weekend:)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it was
Tarmel Udimo: was the ritual specific, ie like sweat lodge or????
Calvino Rabeni: The main idea was to move the group away from some land, partly by un-creating the sweat lodge that has been there a long time
Calvino Rabeni: So - in the lodge, but no fire
Tarmel Udimo: understand...
Tarmel Udimo: was it a location that had held many and was this difficult for some of the group?
Calvino Rabeni: Also to "clear" some relationships with the land-owners, to leave no unfortunate attachment
Calvino Rabeni: yes it was difficult and there were some who did not want to leave, and some group council around having a decision that all felt accepting of
Calvino Rabeni: (even if they didn't like it)
Calvino Rabeni: So there was part of it about "leaving" esp. the security of having a sense of place
Calvino Rabeni: Etc.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: it is difficult... the place i stayed at when i went on my writing retreat was lovely, but also shanga 'owned' and so there had been much discussion around allowing me to be there etc... sometimes groups can blow things out of proportion
Tarmel Udimo: or should i say the interaction between individuals in a group;)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I felt like there was some of that going on

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: But the effort was to get past "you have your opinion and I have mine" to a more group "knowing" - not easy to explain, but consensus is more than voting or everyone having their "say"
Tarmel Udimo: yes..
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Zon, welcome
Zon Quar: heya
Tarmel Udimo: have you been here before?
Zon Quar: nods
Zon Quar: what r u talking about
Tarmel Udimo: Calvino Rabeni: But the effort was to get past "you have your opinion and I have mine" to a more group "knowing" - not easy to explain, but consensus is more than voting or everyone having their "say"
Tarmel Udimo: we are discussing group dynamics
Zon Quar: nods
Zon Quar: isnt it a kind of dialogue
Calvino Rabeni: We were talking about an event where a community was separating from a place they had felt rooted in
Zon Quar: ah
Tarmel Udimo: and I mentioned how some times the group dynamic can sometimes inflate things
Calvino Rabeni: removing their physical objects and transferring their spiritual connections
Zon Quar: how inflate ?
Tarmel Udimo: well depending on the 'maturity' of the individuals, it can also be a power struggle between wanting to be heard as well as having what one says to be the 'right' way
Zon Quar: nods
Zon Quar: depends on maturity of individuals
Tarmel Udimo: nods for sure
Tarmel Udimo: and so how did it end
Tarmel Udimo: calvino
Calvino Rabeni: It also depends on if they have "community" and some trust in it
Tarmel Udimo: good point
Calvino Rabeni: because if they don't, then an individual naturally feels they must be responsible alone to get the "right" thing to happen. Othewise they can trust others to carry part of that responsibility
Tarmel Udimo: hummm
Tarmel Udimo: yes, that's a good way to look at it
Zon Quar: i think the trust should be in life in general
Tarmel Udimo: trust is an interesting word
Zon Quar: well..of course it depends on the objectives of the individual and the group
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Or the other way around - the objectives may depend on the trust
Zon Quar: groups can be distructive too, like nazi party
Zon Quar: or some 2reliugious" sects
Tarmel Udimo: agree
Zon Quar: "religious"
Zon Quar: so i think the individual is responsible in group too
Tarmel Udimo: yes and must learn to trust themself first
Zon Quar: nods
Zon Quar: thats why i think healthy group is based in dialogue

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: How the story turned out, Tarmel, is that the ones who were against the move, learned that they could trust the others to carry the spirit of the community to the new place, and came to believe that it would work in that new place also
Tarmel Udimo: ahh beautiful
Zon Quar: u true group spirit then
Zon Quar: an understandingthat group spirit is not governed by outer circumstances
Zon Quar: but inner pull
Calvino Rabeni: My view was that the conflict with the land owners had been exaggerated and at first I did not think it warranted a move
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Zon true
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it takes work to "see" it.
Zon Quar: and challenges
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: True, the challenges call up a need for finding the deeper values
Calvino Rabeni: If you moved a family to a different city, it would be similar, but this was a larger group
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: One unexpectedly nice thing was, I had through pure random circumstance, a cabin that was designed by an artist as a complete work of art
Calvino Rabeni: so it was like sleeping inside a painting
Calvino Rabeni: Which gave me impressions and some dream influences
Calvino Rabeni: Many stories were told. :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: How are your stories, Tarmel?
Tarmel Udimo: my writing?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, if you care to relate anything :)
Tarmel Udimo: well my stories, its really more like one long story with many subplots:)
Tarmel Udimo: in fact its about 3-4 generations
Zon Quar: r u writing a novel Tarmel ?
Tarmel Udimo: yes and no... first the story and then deciding what format
Calvino Rabeni: That's interesting and intriguing
Zon Quar: what a nice way...first story then format
Zon Quar: haven'y thought that way
Tarmel Udimo: yes well it kind of happened that way...
Tarmel Udimo: because it was a story i had written over 10 years ago
Zon Quar: but i am not a writer..lol
Tarmel Udimo: one has to start somewhere
Tarmel Udimo: so now coming back to it I had to upgrade the ideas
Tarmel Udimo: which is what i am doing now
Tarmel Udimo: missed this: Calvino Rabeni: One unexpectedly nice thing was, I had through pure random circumstance, a cabin that was designed by an artist as a complete work of art [1:55] Calvino Rabeni: so it was like sleeping inside a painting [1:55] Calvino Rabeni: Which gave me impressions and some dream influences
Tarmel Udimo: what a nice thing to happen
Calvino Rabeni: An unexpected grace
Tarmel Udimo: yes very much so