2010.03.30 13:00 - The M-word

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

A little chaotic start. When it settles down, Bleu, Bertram and his friend Fay are here with me to talk.

Liza Deischer: hi bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hy liza ! :-)
Liza Deischer: leaving again I'm afraid :-)
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... have a good time ! :-)
Liza Deischer: thanks
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: heyy storm ! ... :-)
Storm Nordwind: Hi there Bertram

Tempus fugit?

Bertram Jacobus: long time no see ;-)
Storm Nordwind: Yes it appears so, though maybe only 3 weeks!
Bertram Jacobus: yes - sl time seems always to contain more fl time ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: why may that be so ?
Storm Nordwind: I agree!
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... not sure. Any ideas?
Bertram Jacobus: no, was a serious question from an unknowing man ... (me)
Storm Nordwind: Where we are and how we feel does seem to affect our comprehension of time
Storm Nordwind: There is the English saying, "Time flies when you're enjoying yourself"
Bertram Jacobus: understandable -
Bertram Jacobus: and hey bleu :-)
Storm Nordwind: Hi there Bleu
Fay Yedmore: hey bleu
Bleu Oleander: hey all

We chat for a while about the art exhibits...

Storm Nordwind: Any more artistic creations adorning the Plaza Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: haven't seen any
Bleu Oleander: perhaps the next round is taking more time
Storm Nordwind: Ah perhaps... I still have one more piece to do - and I'll try to finish it by Friday
Bertram Jacobus: i can´t do any art - sry ... am very untalented for such -
Bleu Oleander: oh good
Fay Yedmore: can i ask about that art?
Bleu Oleander: maybe every month or so we could design a new art project
Fay Yedmore: what is the meaning what was/is the plan?
Storm Nordwind: Of course Fay, please do
Bleu Oleander: with new parameters
Bleu Oleander: the challenge was to create a work of art
Fay Yedmore: oke
Bleu Oleander: that fit certain parameters
Fay Yedmore: and for what wich theme?
Bleu Oleander: and illuminated a Play as Being theme
Fay Yedmore: are there already some creations?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: Storm has some wonderful ones
Fay Yedmore: can the be watched?
Bleu Oleander: sure take a look
Fay Yedmore: where
Fay Yedmore: am sorry am so new here
Fay Yedmore looks a bit shy
Bleu Oleander: in the play as being village square
Storm Nordwind: It is to the north and slightly east of here
Fay Yedmore: ah perhaps you can take me ones there hun?
Bertram Jacobus: i can show you dear , then , if you like ...
Storm Nordwind: About 200m away

...and who can creates them

Fay Yedmore: i would like to make such too ones
Fay Yedmore: or is there date?
Fay Yedmore: or what is the plan
Bleu Oleander: Bert, have you made one?
Bertram Jacobus: no. i typed before : sry : i´m very untalented in such doings ...
Fay Yedmore: or cant i because am not part of the group?
Fay Yedmore: sorry of all my questions
Storm Nordwind: Fay, you would have to give it to Bert to put there. It has to follow certain rules. And you have to be a group member to place it there
Bleu Oleander: no one is untalented :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i am. in that. i can do other thigs
Fay Yedmore: smiles sure
Bertram Jacobus: things*
Bleu Oleander: maybe next project we could allow one texture and only a few prims
Bertram Jacobus: so - to support fay´s questions : which are the actual parameters ? and which is the time table ? is there one ?
Storm Nordwind: It's interesting to see though how creativity can be enhanced by constraints
Bleu Oleander: yes
Storm Nordwind: The parameters are on the guardian email list
Bleu Oleander: i sent you a notecard
Bertram Jacobus: ty for the nc bleu
Fay Yedmore: thanks
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: each piece has a notecard .... if you go look, take one from each one
Fay Yedmore: yes i would love too

Fay's questions naturally lead the conversation into what guardians are and what the Play as Being practice is.

Fay Yedmore: maybe i can perhaps ask one more thing
Bleu Oleander: sure
Fay Yedmore: how can u become a member of this group
Fay Yedmore: are there some task to do or ?
Storm Nordwind: The group is for Play as Being guardians
Storm Nordwind: We invite people to become guardians if they've visited this place a lot and have taken up the Play as Being practice
Fay Yedmore: practice?
Fay Yedmore: please help me out ther
Storm Nordwind: That's what these meetings are for
Fay Yedmore: ah great
Storm Nordwind: To talk about the Play as Being practice
Storm Nordwind: If you look on http://playasbeing.wik.is you'll find out more about it
Fay Yedmore: oh wow
Fay Yedmore: yes i will do that
Fay Yedmore: awesome
Fay Yedmore: thanks storm
Storm Nordwind: But the basic practice is a short meditation of only 9 seconds, but repeated at 15 minute intervals
Fay Yedmore: oke
Storm Nordwind: By the way... since you appeared with Bert, I may have made an assumption: all the conversations here are recorded and put on that website - including this conversation. Do you mind if your name and words are mentioned?
Fay Yedmore: no storm i was here already a view times smiles
Storm Nordwind: Good :)
Bertram Jacobus: heyy cal :-)
Storm Nordwind: Hello Cal
Fay Yedmore: hey cal
Bleu Oleander: hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone :)
Fay Yedmore: am reading the site but i will take some more time for it
Fay Yedmore: to much to soon and to late for me now smiles
Fay Yedmore: looks so intresting
Storm Nordwind: Yes I can understand that!
Storm Nordwind: The introductory bits will be the most useful at first
Fay Yedmore: but what about those meditations
Fay Yedmore: never dne such
Fay Yedmore: done
Bertram Jacobus: here, i could imagine, nobody will evangelize ...
Bertram Jacobus: will be more the other way round : one has to question quite intense to get to know something about the practise ? what do all think about this ? ;-)

The 9 second practice.

Storm Nordwind: There are some introductory ideas on the website. But basically we stop for 9 seconds, just pause, and drop our associations and identifications that we carry with us most of the time, our baggage if you like, so that we can get a chance to see what we are behind that
Storm Nordwind: It's called Play as Being, because we can play with what it might be like to 'be', or even to be Being
Fay Yedmore nods

Frequency is more important than regularity.

Bertram Jacobus: i found it a very and really intense practise to do that all 15 minutes !
Bertram Jacobus: over the whole day ...
Storm Nordwind: The frequency is important yes
Storm Nordwind: Many people are not exact in the timing
Bertram Jacobus: was never able to do that i admit ...
Storm Nordwind: But it's the frequency of poking holes in what we assume to be real that helps
Bertram Jacobus: only partly
Bertram Jacobus: and as i heard its so for most
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: does anybody here practise like that ? stopping every 15 minutes for 9 seconds ? over the hole day ?
Storm Nordwind: Many people record their impressions. There are several blogs out there with people's experiences. And some people find the time to come here and discuss them. Someone is here every 6 hours!
Storm Nordwind: I have done Bert. My consistency varies a lot though!
Bleu Oleander: I am not as regularly timed as every 15 min for 9 sec, but am noticing that I do it with more frequency than when I first started
Bertram Jacobus: how long could you do it storm ? how many hours ? how many days ? or was it for weeks, even moth ? continiously ?
Storm Nordwind: Certainly for a day at a time, yes
Storm Nordwind: Each day is a new day! :)
Storm Nordwind: I might not do it while driving though :)
Bertram Jacobus: i installed reminders on my cellphone which reminded me for about 8 hours of the days every 15 minutes ...
Storm Nordwind: Great!
Calvino Rabeni: I find long drives an especially good time for awareness practice
Calvino Rabeni: because there is nothing else to do
Storm Nordwind has a 4 hour drive to Crestone ahead of him on Saturday...
Calvino Rabeni: Good idea about the cell phone Bert

I used the M-word before (meditation). Does that include or exclude people? What other words could we use?

Bertram Jacobus: but i have a question in my mind : would this practise also be fine for somebody who didn´t do any meditation before ? sry - am very unsure about that ... hm - because my own access to it was and is quite different ...
Storm Nordwind: I would say yes
Bleu Oleander: I would agree
Storm Nordwind: Especially as experienced meditators might not call it meditation! ;)
Bertram Jacobus: ah - the naming it "micro meditation" is a quite smart way to help accept it as such ;o)
Storm Nordwind: But the important thing is it's very accessible
Calvino Rabeni: I think of it as "awareness" but not "meditation"
Calvino Rabeni: There's no wrong way to do it
Storm Nordwind: Cal's right - awareness is a better word, although it can sound wishy-washy to some people :)
Bertram Jacobus: i find "micro meditation" quite clever as words for it :o)
Bertram Jacobus: didn´t find that my self for sure
Bertram Jacobus: heard it here
Calvino Rabeni: But, when you "get" awareness, then it is possible to do with it various things, if you know meditation or other practices that can be done in a short time.
Calvino Rabeni: I think of as "a meeting with myself" with an open agenda
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all ... bfn :)
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now Bleu
Calvino Rabeni: Whatever the things I do within that time, are not the definition of the practice
Calvino Rabeni: Bye!
Fay Yedmore: ppl thanks for those words
Fay Yedmore: explaining
Storm Nordwind: You are very welcome
Fay Yedmore: right now i feel all is much info for me
Fay Yedmore: so i will take some thime
Bertram Jacobus: you know that i´m happy with all that fay - dear ...
Storm Nordwind: Good idea
Fay Yedmore: to get all clear to me
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: That is a good use of attention too Fay :)
Fay Yedmore: well thats just how i feel right now
Bertram Jacobus: all VERY fine dear !
Fay Yedmore: so i will leave you all a bit to go to my island
Fay Yedmore: i wish you all a good evening
Fay Yedmore: thanks again smiles
Bertram Jacobus: am with you ...
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now
Calvino Rabeni: :) fare well
Storm Nordwind waves
Fay Yedmore: waves

Bertram is touched by his friend's reaction. Meanwhile I have to leave, and there is another brief chaotic coming and going.

Bertram Jacobus: it touched her extremly intense ...
Bertram Jacobus: ty for all here ...
Storm Nordwind: You're welcome Bert.
Storm Nordwind: Would you please excuse me guys. I have to be away in a moment for another meeting
Calvino Rabeni: Sure, thanks Storm, BFN
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: bye storm
Bertram Jacobus: so this was ... special to me ... did you feel it too cal ?
Calvino Rabeni: Not as much as some late night sessions, but I'd like to know what quality you experienced?
Calvino Rabeni: Your friend being here, had the effect for you that I couldn't really see
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey you both
Calvino Rabeni: Greetings Yakusan
Bertram Jacobus: hi yaku ...
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: the quality is ... feeling cal ... quite intense ... somebody new got beings impressions ... such ... and sry - have to leave now - may need help (!) ...
Calvino Rabeni: :) thanks, good to meet with you Bert
Bertram Jacobus: sry yaku for leaving so fast after your coming here and bye cal - may be all beings be ghappy please (!) ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
Calvino Rabeni: namaste Bert
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi pila
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
Pila Mulligan: hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: GTSY, Pila
Yakuzza Lethecus: but actually i am about to allow the gravity to drop myself into my fluffy,warm and comfy bed
Yakuzza Lethecus: and practice a little for the dream workshop :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: gute nacht ihr beiden
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye!
Calvino Rabeni: Heh, good night :)

Calvino and Pila settle down to a new conversation. They talk about the US civil rights movement and how WWII brought change for New World inhabitants through intimate contact with Old World attitudes. I'll leave you with them...

Calvino Rabeni: Well, Pila, are there things whereof to speak would be meet?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: well let's see ...
Pila Mulligan: do you have an interest in sociological-political history
Pila Mulligan: ?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know yet :)
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have something specific in mind?
Pila Mulligan: yes, how WWII affected the civil rights movement
Pila Mulligan: it is a simple matter, but one I only gained insight to somewhat recently
Calvino Rabeni: I'm interested in the sociology of "current" history, I believe....
Calvino Rabeni: Do say
Calvino Rabeni: And I'll BRB :)
Pila Mulligan: ok
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Back
Pila Mulligan: wb
Pila Mulligan: 90 secs :)
Pila Mulligan: in 2002 I got involved in helping make a website for a World War II veterans association -- it was the first African-American tank battalion to enter the war -- I was involved somewhat with the civil rights movement in previous decades, but the expereince with the veterans opened my eyes to something new
Pila Mulligan: when they first joined the army in the early 1940's they came from very diverse social and political situations -- some from the deep south immersed in the Jim Crow culutre there, some from the west and north where discrimination was less brutal but just as prevalent (one member of the batttalion was Jackie Robinson, who became the first black major league basball player later in his life)
Pila Mulligan: when they got to Europe, and before while they were staged in England, they found culutres that were much less prejudiced
Pila Mulligan: they were not treated badly and indeed were welcomed in situations where they would be treated badly in the US
Pila Mulligan: then they went into combat and succeeded, despite being treated with less support than similar white units
Pila Mulligan: so they considered they were fighting WWII on two fronts -- against Germany in the fireld and against racial discrimnation in the army
Pila Mulligan: when they returned to the US after that expereince, they had a different view of things, and many of them, and their children became leaders of the civil right smovement
Calvino Rabeni: Ok, so that was one of the factors instigating "consciousness raising".
Pila Mulligan: like Jackie Robinson, they were willing to take heat to amke advances
Pila Mulligan: yes
Calvino Rabeni: A positive side effect of warfare
Pila Mulligan: a few actually chose ot stay in England and Europe
Pila Mulligan: after the war
Pila Mulligan: it was interesting to hear first hand stories of how the war changed them
Calvino Rabeni: indeed
Calvino Rabeni: ...
Calvino Rabeni: There are several streams in the history - which haven't cohered yet for me -
Pila Mulligan: can you elaborate some?
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, I'd like to know more about how the civil rights movement became the cause celebre of social liberalism in the USA
Calvino Rabeni: And in doing so, what was lost / obscured
Pila Mulligan: i think it was simply an extension of the cause of slavery
Calvino Rabeni: Nothing is simple.
Pila Mulligan: did you know the Founding Fathers agreed to take slavery off the table as a politcal issue for 50 years, to see if the new republic could get on its feet before facing it
Pila Mulligan: ?
Calvino Rabeni: No
Pila Mulligan: then, when the 50 years was up, the same agreement was extended again by Congress
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, the thinking is too simplistic, IMHO, to consider that the civil rights movement is an extension of a natural social progression of some kind, without looking at whose interests specifically, were served by having it be foregrounded
Pila Mulligan: slavery was the deepest controversy around during the first years of American history, and it was consciously set aside for that reason -- it was seen as too heavy, too likely to shake apart the new Republic, to take on in the normal course of politics at the start
Pila Mulligan: and sure enough, whe they finally got around to it, it did shake apart the Republic, in the civil war
Pila Mulligan: the interets at stake in the issue were the fuindamental conflict between an agrarian society (the couth) and anindustrializing society (the north)
Calvino Rabeni: And what was lost in that practice. The focusing of liberalism on "civil rights" narrowly construed as white/black race relations, diverted attention from and therefore annulled other social justice movements, such as a struggle against classism.
Calvino Rabeni: I believe you can find the "race" card being played - in a negative way - as a distraction technique from those other issues
Calvino Rabeni: In a way the liberals were manipulated by that strategem
Calvino Rabeni: And it has resulted in quite a "blind spot" of the liberal progressive movements
Pila Mulligan: I thing slavery antedates Marx
Calvino Rabeni: I think it's something that needs to be left behind, or updated
Pila Mulligan: well, there are many ways to see the cotroversy
Pila Mulligan: but as an event, the civil rights movement was probably the greatest contribution the US has made to world history
Calvino Rabeni: Slavery per se, is a class issue nowadays, and is as big as ever, and is no longer centered around race relations per se. Especially WRT black / white race relations
Pila Mulligan: yes, slavery continues
Calvino Rabeni: To consider it so, I think, is too narrow a focus by far
Pila Mulligan: hmmm
Pila Mulligan: I'll accept the criticism without changing my opinion :)
Calvino Rabeni: And is diversionary from what seem to be truer causes of social injustice and oppression
Pila Mulligan: there are indeed many causes to advocate terms of social injustice and oppression
Pila Mulligan: in terms of*
Calvino Rabeni: It's not a criticism, it's just suggesting to look at the big picture, fight the war and forget the recent skirmishes (to get back to the earlier war metaphor)
Pila Mulligan: I have a somewhat different historical view, however, Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Could you state it briefly, and I'll think about it?
Pila Mulligan: I did
Pila Mulligan: see above
Pila Mulligan: rather than being a skirmish that distracted from other issues, the civil rights movement was the culmination of the most fndamental controverysies in American history
Calvino Rabeni: I don't see it as a specifically american issue
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
Pila Mulligan: in most of the rest of the Western world, legalized discrimination was not as bad as in the US
Pila Mulligan: it was brutal in the US
Pila Mulligan: by dealing with the issue, in law, the Us opened the door to social justice issues such as those you are concerned with, througout the world
Calvino Rabeni: I guess I see american slavery as particular form of a more general issue of economic power and oppression, not specifically defined by race
Pila Mulligan: that is true
Pila Mulligan: ut in the US it all fell on the slavery issue
Pila Mulligan: but*
Calvino Rabeni: And the social justice issues are still too much (in my opinion) defined by social identity factors (race, gender, etc.) rather than class and power
Pila Mulligan: it takes time to undo the tribal structure of genetic memory
Calvino Rabeni: True, and that is important too
Pila Mulligan: most violent oppression arises in conflicts between groups, overshadowing the oippression within groups
Calvino Rabeni: That is something worth looking at carefully
Calvino Rabeni: I actually have to leave soon but we can pick this up again later
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for the discussion, Pila
Pila Mulligan: ok, see you later Cal
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: bye for now