2010.08.04 13:00 - Tossing Coins

The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

Fefonz Quan: Hello Sartre
Fefonz Quan: brb
Sartre Placebo: hey fef
Sartre Placebo: sry for not responding so quickly
Fefonz Quan: HI Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fefonz :)
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
Fefonz Quan: I am great, and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Not bad thanks :)
Sartre Placebo: Hi gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Satre :)
Fefonz Quan: Gaya, could you say some words about the I ching workshop? though on the email group, i didn't manage to have time to really participate
Fefonz Quan: Hi Qt
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... hm ...
Qt Core: Hi all
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Qt :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Where to start ... :)
Sartre Placebo: Hey qt
Gaya Ethaniel: I find it interesting to see how the results entice me to see narrowly, self-centred. It's a good practice for me in that sense.
Fefonz Quan: what results are you pointing at?
Gaya Ethaniel: And also a good reminder how circumstances change, good time never last forever and one can't be in a bad situation forever etiher.
Gaya Ethaniel: When you toss coins, you get a result, sometimes one symbol but often two.
Gaya Ethaniel: Each symbol has a name and interpretations attached to it.
Fefonz Quan: how open is this interpertation to your personal view?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well, not sure yet ... I've only practised for a few months now. But I think most of the time it's not personal.
Fefonz Quan: (Qt, i asked Gaya about the I ching workshop, jst to let you knwo)
Gaya Ethaniel: But of course, it is personal because it can show how one can be in harmony ...
Qt Core: yes, i was already here ;-)
Fefonz Quan nods, i think i can grasp that
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't frame questions before tossing anyway ...
Fefonz Quan: aha! (is that like cheating, or maybe it doesn't make any difference?)
Fefonz Quan: (surely in a linear view it should make a huge difference)
Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I'm not sure yet ... but some people use it for divination.
Fefonz Quan: divination?
Gaya Ethaniel: For example today, I had 'Thunder' and had a thunderstorm.
Gaya Ethaniel: So was it about my personal situation or the weather or something else? :)
Fefonz Quan: oh cool! so the weather report feature works at least ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: I just find it fun anyway ...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Let me find what Thunder means ... one sec.
Fefonz Quan: (strong turmoiled emotional state?)
Qt Core: i can't really see anything useful to read in tossed coins... that said i have the i ching book but never read it
Gaya Ethaniel: Zhen portends success. First comes the shock which evokes apprehension and fear. Then, the aftermath is laughter. For a hundred miles around people are terrified. But the sincere worshipper does not let his sacrificial cup and spoon drop.
Gaya Ethaniel: Thunder repeated is the image of Zhen. The Superior Man, in fear and trembling, develops his virtues and examines his faults.
Gaya Ethaniel: Zhen - Thunder [51]
Fefonz Quan: The description is so poetic!
Gaya Ethaniel: I just find these texts attached to symbols useful to read most of the time.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Confucius' commentaries are also in the poetry form.
Qt Core: yes, the "explanations" aren't bad, but then you can just open the book at a random pages using dices ;-)
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: I Ching is much older ... Confucius studied it until he was very old I think.
Fefonz Quan: So the virtues are developed or purified in the presence of shock and fear?
Gaya Ethaniel: OK I got my book out ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Zhen, Taking Action ... representing the spring.
Fefonz Quan: unexpected - thunder in the spring
Gaya Ethaniel: It advises people to adopt a cautious heart andn a cautious mind in dealing with a new situation before expecting success.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it is the time for a new cycle to begin.
Gaya Ethaniel: Wise men keeps himself calm and remain at east. He does not let the excitement lead to failure in important matters. With a cautious mind, he cultivates his virtues and examines his erros. This is the key to success.
Gaya Ethaniel: "The Complete I Ching by Alfred Huang"
Fefonz Quan: errors?
Gaya Ethaniel: errors yes :)
Fefonz Quan: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: So I guess what you said is right Fefonz. With fear and shock thunder can bring, one needs to be cautious :)
Gaya Ethaniel: What I find interesting though is to see Thunder, the season ... images of new cycle. One can gleam many things off the old text.
Fefonz Quan nods
Fefonz Quan: would you say that like other methods, the point is less at 'predicting' and more at 'mirroring' (yourself/opthers aournd you/the universe around you)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes!
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not dismissing 'prediction' part. I just don't know how to do that :P
Gaya Ethaniel: It's fun to watch thoughts that come up seeing the results. As you say it shows a lot about what's going on with my life.
Gaya Ethaniel: Has any of you tried it?
Fefonz Quan: and do you discuss those results in the workshop, or keep it as personal practice?
Fefonz Quan: nope, i didn not
Gaya Ethaniel: We meet and discuss results or various other things.
Qt Core: no
Gaya Ethaniel: oh do you want to try??
Fefonz Quan: now?
Gaya Ethaniel: yeah
Gaya Ethaniel: Just for fun ...
Fefonz Quan: sure! how can we?
Gaya Ethaniel: ok ... need three coins, same size
Gaya Ethaniel: Not too small
Fefonz Quan: ok, just a second...
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Fefonz Quan: i got mine :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ok so take a short pause like 9 sec
Gaya Ethaniel: Then throw and tell me what you've got ie head head tale
Gaya Ethaniel: tail
Gaya Ethaniel: You need to throw 6 times in total
Fefonz Quan: )do i need to decide which side is one and which is 0?)
Gaya Ethaniel: Well, one side is head and the other tail ...
Gaya Ethaniel: What kind of coins you have?
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: number on one side, some drawing on the other
Gaya Ethaniel: OK then drawing busy side - head, number side - tail
Fefonz Quan: ok
Gaya Ethaniel: You hold the coins in your hands, shake a bit then throw as you like.
Fefonz Quan: all at once?
Gaya Ethaniel: 3 coins together yes.
Fefonz Quan: ok, 2 heads and a tail
Gaya Ethaniel: ok now second throw please.
Fefonz Quan: no 2 tails and a head
Gaya Ethaniel: 3rd throw please.
Fefonz Quan: 2 tails
Fefonz Quan: 3 tails
Gaya Ethaniel: 4th?
Fefonz Quan: (the 2 was typo)
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Fefonz Quan: 2 tails 1 head
Gaya Ethaniel: 5th
Fefonz Quan: the same
Gaya Ethaniel: 6th final
Fefonz Quan: ans 2 heads 1 tail
Gaya Ethaniel: ok let me double check that I got this right ... one sec
Gaya Ethaniel: Let me look up the book now :)
Fefonz Quan: so i head 3x6=2 to the 18 possible results
Fefonz Quan: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Gaya, Fef,Sartre, Qt.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes you've got 47 (Kun - Exhausting) changing to 28 (Great Exceeding).
Fefonz Quan: (then we should divide by the repetition due to non-orering, never mind...)
Qt Core: hi bruce
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bruce :)
Fefonz Quan: what does great exceeding mean?
Gaya Ethaniel: Because you had all tails at the third throw, which is yin line changing to yang, you have two gua.
Sartre Placebo: hey bruce
Qt Core: hi Darren
Darren Islar: hi everyoe
Sartre Placebo: and daren :)
Gaya Ethaniel: 28 Da Guo, Great Exceeding
Fefonz Quan: hi darren
Gaya Ethaniel: Great Exceeding. The ridgepole sags. Favourable to have somewhere to go. Prosperous and smooth. [King Wen's decision]
Gaya Ethaniel: The lake rises over the tree. An image of Great Exceeding. In correspondence with this, The superior person stands firm alone without fear. And withdraws from the world with no depression. [Confucius' commentary]
Gaya Ethaniel: The interesting thing I always note is the changing line.
Gaya Ethaniel: And what it says in the book.
Fefonz Quan: what is the changing line?
Fefonz Quan: (Gaya is showing us an example of I ching practice, for the new comers)
Gaya Ethaniel: That's the third line [yao 3] in the first gua symbol 47 Kun Exhausting.
Gaya Ethaniel: When you have either all tails or all heads, the lines changes from either yin to yang or vice versa, which gives you a second gua symbol.
Gaya Ethaniel: Making sense?
Fefonz Quan: i see.
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fefonz Quan: so do i move from exhausting to great exceeding?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes when all tail [yin line] changed to the opposite, yang line, gua 28 changes to 47. There are 64 gua in total.
Fefonz Quan: the numbers are not telling me much, the other descriptions might
Gaya Ethaniel: I just looked up the book about that line. It talks about a difficult situation where one is not able to advance or retreat. Its advice is to go home.
Gaya Ethaniel: Well once practised over a time, sometimes you see a pattern.
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: yes, me like to go home :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Me too ... almost time :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Fefonz and everyone. Good night :)
Sartre Placebo: night gaya
Darren Islar: bye Gaya
Qt Core: the problem is you get stuck being already at home ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Good night, Gaya.
Fefonz Quan: night Gaya, thanksfor the explanations and examples!
Gaya Ethaniel: oh no ... sorry to hear it Qt >.<
Qt Core: 'night Gaya
Fefonz Quan: night all, i'll go to sleep as well,
Bruce Mowbray: Good night, Fef.
Sartre Placebo: sleep well fef
Darren Islar: nite Fonz
Qt Core: 'night Fef
Fefonz Quan: hope we didn't ;bore you with all that I ching stuff
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Bruce Mowbray: The I Ching fascinates me. I first began using it in Novermber of 1970.
Bruce Mowbray: For about thirty years, I threw a reading on New Years Day.
Bruce Mowbray: and still have all of them.
Qt Core: i still have sartre as a cloud and Darren in grey...
Bruce Mowbray: Because I was not able to get into Pila's i Ching session last night, I pulled out my Wihelm translation and re-read the introduction by Jung.
Bruce Mowbray: Yep -- Sartre's a cloud for me, too.
Darren Islar: sartre is a clould to me too, but I look good
Darren Islar: very good (joking)
Bruce Mowbray: You look fine, Darren.
Qt Core: ok, Darren got some colors ;-)
Darren Islar: ah :)
Sartre Placebo: better now ?
Bruce Mowbray: You're stilla fog, Sartre.
Qt Core: no, and your tag says you are still loading too
Bruce Mowbray: still a fog.
Bruce Mowbray: a loading fog.
Qt Core: are you on a text only sl client ?
Sartre Placebo: now ?
Sartre Placebo: not today :)
Qt Core: nothing new
Sartre Placebo: the problem is that i don´t know which pillow is used in the circle then :)
Darren Islar: a loading fog, that means some lightening is coming up :)
Darren Islar: you have your own pillow :)
Bruce Mowbray: This pillow works fine, Sartre. So I will not move and you can move here - -
Sartre Placebo: no what i mean is when i use radegast
Sartre Placebo: i don´t see the used pillows in case i use a text only client
Bruce Mowbray: "radegast"?
Sartre Placebo: http://avalon-project.ning.com/xn/de...ource=activity
Sartre Placebo: ups
Sartre Placebo: wrong link
Sartre Placebo: http://radegastclient.org/wp/
Bruce Mowbray: You look to me like you're sitting on an unused pillow - - but you are nevertheless stilla fog.
Bruce Mowbray: still a
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- Now you've moved -- but, alas, still a fog.
Darren Islar: it is not the pillow
Darren Islar: but what is it?
Bruce Mowbray: Nope -- not the pillow.
Darren Islar: I guess Yakuzza is online too?
Sartre Placebo: of course
Bruce Mowbray: my guess is that it's beteen Sartre and his server (ISP)
Sartre Placebo: but that´usually not a problem
Bruce Mowbray: between.
Darren Islar: how does Yaku look?
Bruce Mowbray: Yaku is not here.
Darren Islar: no, but he is online
Darren Islar: sartre knows how he looks
Bruce Mowbray: yes, he is on-line -- only not nearby.
Darren Islar: no but Sartre is his alt
Darren Islar: so he has two avatars online at the same time
Bruce Mowbray: I've seen Sartre many times -- we attended the same Philosophy Class together every wee... so i know how he looks, too.
Bruce Mowbray: week.
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Ohhhhhhh!
Darren Islar: yes, I know, but if Yaku isn't a cloud, I guess we can deminish a few possibilities
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe someone should ask Yaku for a TP and research this thing further.
Darren Islar: so, guy behind the machine, do you see two or one cloud?
Bruce Mowbray: Folks, the library is closing and I am going to have to depart.
Darren Islar: me too
Bruce Mowbray: Enjoy!
Darren Islar: soon
Qt Core: one
Darren Islar: bye Bruce :)
Qt Core: bye Bruce
Qt Core: do the lag meter tell you something bad, Sartre
Qt Core: ?
Sartre Placebo: not really
Sartre Placebo: which lag meter ?
Darren Islar: I guess the guy behind the machine is now playing with Yaku
Sartre Placebo: i could relog
Darren Islar: you can try
Sartre Placebo: actually i was looking for something on a webpage
Qt Core: advanced/performance tool/lag meter in 2.1
Darren Islar: ah, okay
Darren Islar: I'm going
Darren Islar: see you :)
Qt Core: bye Darren
Sartre Placebo: bye darren
Sartre Placebo: night qt
Qt Core: 'night Sartre