2010.08.13 06:00 - Reality Check

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Dubrovna. The comments are by Adams Dubrovna.

The usual full group gathered for the Friday morning time session including a number of newcomers. We spent a good time discussing how we look at reality

SophiaSharon Larnia: Good morning Pema :)
Pema Pera: Hi Sharon!
Pema Pera: Still hot at the East Coast, or are you getting some relief?
SophiaSharon Larnia: its much better today :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: although lost power for 4 hours last night
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya, Eden, Pema, Sharon :)
Eliza Madrigal rubs her eyes
Pema Pera: hi Eliza and Eden!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza, Eden and Yakuzza :)
Pema Pera: and hi Yaku!
Eden Haiku: Hello Yaku, Pema, SophiaSharon and Eliza :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi uns
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Uns
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Uns, welcome :)
Uns Mistwalker: hi
Uns Mistwalker: rezzing
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bleu,sharry
Eliza Madrigal: That's fine... let me give you a note about the group...
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi bleu
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sharry
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :), Sharry too :)
Uns Mistwalker: thank you.
Pema Pera: hi Bleu, Sharry, Uns!
Sharry Ragu: hi
Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu, Uns ad Sharry :)
Sharry Ragu: hi Eden :))
Pema Pera: Hi Darren
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Darren
Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darren :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Darren
Sharry Ragu waves hello
Pema Pera: hi Adams!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams
Darren Islar: hi Adams
Adams Dubrovna: Hello everyone :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi adams,darren
Pema Pera: Would anybody like to volunteer to post the chat log for today? Adams and Darren did so the last two times.
Eden Haiku: Good morning Adams :) hello Darren :)
Adams Dubrovna: I can post it if you like
Pema Pera: looking spiff, Adams, dressed for the occasion!
Pema Pera: thank you, Adams!
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: Hi Baeric!
Baeric Constantine: Hello all :)
Darren Islar: hi Baeric
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Baeric, welcome :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Baeric
Pema Pera: Thank you all for joining us, and a special thanks for all those who contributed to the reports this week!
Pema Pera: I was really touched by all the moving and very personal accounts
Pema Pera: the notion of being on the way, together and individually, and Adams connecting sense of love
Pema Pera: see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2F%2F08%2F%2F13:_Reports
Pema Pera: and for those new here, see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time for more background
Pema Pera: today we're still working with chapter 2, http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/2._Arising and later today I'll post a new chapter
Pema Pera: would anybody like to comment on the text that we read and/or the reports posted?
Eliza Madrigal: (just a note that newcomers have had intros, etc - all is well :)
Pema Pera: (thank you!)
Eden Haiku: Reading the most recent reports :)
Pema Pera: hi Bruce!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Darren Islar: hi Bruce :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Bruce
Eliza Madrigal just caught up on reports... smiling at Darren's "I still didn't fall asleep"
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone, Very sorry to be so late.
Pema Pera: btw, I think Maxine is still on a bicycle tour in Nova Scotia, following the PaB retreat we had there
Pema Pera: we're just starting, Bruce :)
Darren Islar: it wasn't like it was in the movies :)
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, so nice to see everybody being so realistic!
Darren Islar: it is in the movies
Eden Haiku: Good morning Bruce :)
Pema Pera: all of us aware of many imperfections
Eliza Madrigal nods

Bleu asks about the benefits of looking at life as "not real" to start things off

Bleu Oleander: In your report Pema you say, your life may not be real ultimately, not any more real than a movie character .... how is that a beneficial view to have?
--BELL--
Baeric Constantine: How would that view be degenerative, Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: doesn't the view that the world is real help us live in the world?
Pema Pera: I'm always aware of the danger of using a metaphor like that, Bleu :-).
Darren Islar is dropping his stone in the water, hears a little splash, some water is plunging in the air, followed by some wrinkels in the water, after the stone seems to be gone
Eden Haiku: I like Adam's nice summary: Love!
Pema Pera: but what I tried to point out is that we tend to make everything too heavy, too solid
Pema Pera: taking everything more lightly may free us to experiment more
Baeric Constantine: In Plato's Socratic dialogue, Meno proffers the paradox (my favourite paradox), "And how will you inquire into a thing when you are wholly ignorant of what it is? Even if you happen to bump right into it, how will you know it is the thing you didn't know?" Thus, if we are to use our life as a laboratory, how then can we carry experiments on something not yet occurred, as we do not recognise it?
Pema Pera: how do you think that "reality" of the world helps us to live in the world, Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: being open to many possibilites?
Pema Pera: yes
Eden Haiku: Though it might be useful to have things crystallize in some solidity too I think Pema.
Pema Pera: we just have to start somewhere, Baeric :)
Uns Mistwalker: each breath, decreases by one, the number left to me.
Bleu Oleander: the world to me is a series of relationships
Pema Pera: sure, Eden, it's always a matter of balance
Baeric Constantine: Series of relationships? can you not have some in parallel then?>
Pema Pera: but is "reality" not just a judgement? does it change the relationships?
Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to have parallel relationships?
Darren Islar: you need to start somewhere Pema :)
Darren Islar: and 'reality' can be one
Pema Pera: sure, as long as you don't get stuck the idea
Darren Islar: testing its solidity for example
Darren Islar: sure
Eliza Madrigal: yes, seeing the assumptions we continually make without realizing we're doing so...
Bleu Oleander: I think we make predictions about the world and we try to confirm or negate them by using our senese
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef :))
Bleu Oleander: senses*
Darren Islar: hi Fonz :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Fefonz
Pema Pera: hi Fefonz!
Uns Mistwalker: and seeing them, Eliza, removes you from the present into reflection on the past, doesn't it?
Bleu Oleander: hi Fefonz
Pema Pera: hi Bob!
Baeric Constantine: All experimentation is based on one assumption or another before a factual basis can be established
Eliza Madrigal: well that's a funny thing Uns... yes 'past' but not past as in 'back there' necessarily like some drag on the present...
Darren Islar: hi Bob
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bob :)
Baeric Constantine: Hello Bob
Uns Mistwalker: Yes Eliza...it is a matter of how tightly the consciousness clings to the observation of an assumption.
Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you a note about the group Bob, one moment ...
Pema Pera: sure, Baeric, theory and experiment are mutually dependent
Fefonz Quan: Hi all! :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i did Eliza
Sharry Ragu waves hello to bob and Fefonz
Baeric Constantine: Hello FeFonz.
Bruce Mowbray: Is it the consciousness that clings - or the rational mind?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay Sharon thx :) (sorry to bombard Bob then, hah)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (suspects we both are yes sorry)
Darren Islar: or is the rational mind part of our consciousness?
Bruce Mowbray: If we "drop" reasoning and just let the experience arise, without needing to explain it rationally... perhaps we will discover something fresh.
Fefonz Quan: I woul say consiousness is prior to rational mind
Uns Mistwalker: to me, rational thought is simply one means of directing consciousness.
Bruce Mowbray: agree that consciousness is prior.
Darren Islar: agree with Uns
Darren Islar: but the word isn't that important I guess
Baeric Constantine: cannot conciousness direct rational thought, then, Uns?
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I think we worry that if we see more of the presumptions we're making, bringing things up to the open, that we won't enjoy life as much... it seems the opposite to me... yes, the freshness Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: If by "reason" we mean our attempts to "control" through structuring - in order to have things make "sense," then we will not have a freash sheer appearance.
Bruce Mowbray: fresh.
Darren Islar: maybe, but 'fpcus
Darren Islar: focus can help
Bleu Oleander: appearance is reality to me
Bruce Mowbray: attention, yes.
Bruce Mowbray: Not sure whether what you mean by focus and what I mean by attention are the same, though.
Pema Pera: in that case I'm happy with the word "real", Bleu :-)
Darren Islar: it is both doing something and not doing another thing
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eden Haiku: brb (phone)
Darren Islar: to me it is not only dropping the pre-assumptions
--BELL--
Darren Islar: well, I guess focus is maybe more concentrated, but you need a form of concentration to be attentive
Darren Islar: (or to have attention, I should say) Words!
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps there's a language problem here -- but what I bring to the experiment is not concentration. I bring "intention," "attention," and "attitude [receptivity]"
Darren Islar: can't do without concentration
Bruce Mowbray: the intentionaltiy is probably my "concentration
Baeric Constantine: intension or intention, Bob?
Baeric Constantine: Bruce, rather
Baeric Constantine: sorry
Eliza Madrigal: the pre-assumptions for me just mean that when/if I allow myself to see how much I normally don't see, it kind of creates a shakiness in my general idea that I am seeing all there is to see, as I go along...
SophiaSharon Larnia: true, need some concentratioon, seems to flow well when loosely held though too.
Bruce Mowbray: the intention to be present and do the work.
Darren Islar: true
Uns Mistwalker: Eliza, do you think it possible to see all there is to see as you go along?
Pema Pera: yes, it can lead to a re-evaluation of what we think is real, ELiza
Darren Islar: a light focus :)
Bruce Mowbray: but a very different thing, say, drom "concentrating" (focusing) on the tip of a candle.
Bruce Mowbray: from.
Adams Dubrovna: A real-evaluation of what is real allows us to see our priorities
Bleu Oleander: re-evaluation ... a good thing
Eliza Madrigal: well I'm not too worried about that Uns... about seeing 'all' as though I could just by force of wanting to...
Adams Dubrovna: see=examine
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Adams
Darren Islar: to me it is more that you need to put something in it to get result, whether it is focus, concentration or intention
Pema Pera: yes, Adams, seeing priorities is a very practical application of all our considerations here
Eliza Madrigal: Hi RawVegan :))
Pema Pera: hi Raw!
Darren Islar: hi Raw
RawVegan Serenity: hello everybody
Sharry Ragu: :))
Pema Pera: how about just relaxing, Darren?
Pema Pera: does that not bring its own sense of attention?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Darren Islar: relaxing to me is taking me anywhere, without the awareness
Darren Islar: to me it is a combination
Pema Pera: a cat can be totally relaxed, yet jump up at the sound of a bird
Darren Islar: of relaxing, letting go, focussing, motivation, a whole mix of things
Baeric Constantine: relaxed does not mean unprepared.
Baeric Constantine: or rather a lack of ability to act
Fefonz Quan nods to Baeric
Fefonz Quan thinks of Tai-Chi
Darren Islar: what I try to say is that both aspects are needed
Baeric Constantine: sorry - does not neccessarily mean...
Darren Islar: so maybe you can call it prepared relaxation, that is okay with me
Eden Haiku: would love to be realxed as a cat and prompt as a cat too...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sharry Ragu: relaxing does not equate to dropping my awareness to me, I absorb the beauty of my garden, watch nature, appreciate the moment
Eden Haiku: *relaxed
Pema Pera: yes, Darren, I think we are using all these terms in slightly different ways
Baeric Constantine: not really prepared relaxation, Darren
Pema Pera: nice image, Sharry!
Uns Mistwalker: i love that typo Eden...i went to real-axed.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, perhaps notice the 'same' things in another way Sharry...?
Fefonz Quan: me too Uns :-)
Darren Islar: :) Uns
Sharry Ragu nods..
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Eden Haiku: Ah yes Uns, real-axed...Grinning, showing her teeth :)))
Baeric Constantine: I concur, if one stops being aware, then it would suggest something more than relaxed, surely?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: like axed, Baeric?
Darren Islar: have you ever watched the ears of a cat that is relaxing :)
Baeric Constantine: to much like chopped to me, Pema
Baeric Constantine: :)
Fefonz Quan: (yes, cat and paste...)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Sharry Ragu: I like that earlier question Elizer, thought provoking and an exercise to practice :))
Bruce Mowbray wonders whether dogs "focus" but cats "relax."
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Sharry Ragu: hehe... my BoofMan relaxes ;)
Darren Islar: I should focus associate more with cats
Eden Haiku: Dogs 'focus'? Really?
--BELL--
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray: [judging by what their ears do.]
Baeric Constantine: not being a dog or a cat.... I cannot say, I do know that CATastrophes happen, and I get dog tired....
Bleu Oleander: dogs focus, Eden .... on food :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Darren Islar: :)
Uns Mistwalker: and time?
Eden Haiku: Ah, they do Blue, that,s true :))
Fefonz Quan feels that we emphasize too much the amount of focusing, and maybe missing the point\
Bruce Mowbray: My problem with the word "focus" is that it seems to have hard edges.
Eliza Madrigal listens
Darren Islar: yes Fonz
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Bruce
Darren Islar: again for me it wasn't about the word
Bleu Oleander: attention perhaps is a better word
Fefonz Quan: for me, attention/awareness is like a flashlight - i can laser-focus it on one thing
Pema Pera: how about appreciation?
Fefonz Quan: or i can expand its lobe wide to cover all that is around me
Eliza Madrigal: appreciating the edges...
Darren Islar is tasting appreciation
Uns Mistwalker: but there is also a soft-focus...not sharp, that is, not assigning weight to various perceptions...just letting it flow.
Fefonz Quan: indeed, i feel that the omni-mode works better for appereciation,
Darren Islar: right Uns
Sharry Ragu: leaves on a stream...
Fefonz Quan: and the laser mode requires more effort - hence some more tension
Pema Pera: /nods at Uns
Uns Mistwalker: and this soft-focus perhaps is more conducive to play.
Fefonz Quan agrees with Uns too
Uns Mistwalker: to links not previously made
Baeric Constantine thinks Uns has a mania type disposition towards play :D
Darren Islar: I think we actually talk about different way of focussing/concentrating and there seems to be a whole area there
Fefonz Quan: and the play between the modees can be also revealing
Uns Mistwalker: agreed Darren
Uns Mistwalker: and Fefonz!
Eliza Madrigal: yes, interesting
Sharry Ragu: focus and concentration feels like work to me
Fefonz Quan: focus - in order to first clean some colateral noise, and then open up - to absorb all there is with a clear mind/awareness
Eliza Madrigal: but work you enjoy is play...
Darren Islar: well, to a certain extend, that is my point Sharry
Fefonz Quan: (not sure colateral is the right word here)
Darren Islar: the work can be light, but it is not all about dropping or taking away our pre-assumptions
Darren Islar: right Eliza
Darren Islar: and right Fonz
Eliza Madrigal: yes, not taking away surely Darren... just seeing them... factoring them in?
Darren Islar: yes and it needs work to do so
Fefonz Quan: factoring, or just be aware of them, no calculations involved
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Darren Islar: and the more you do it, the easier it gets, the more playful it can be
Uns Mistwalker: only with mastery does the work become effortless
Darren Islar: yes
Sharry Ragu: :))
Darren Islar: at least, I think so :)
Uns Mistwalker: Yeah, i'm taking other's word for it too.
Darren Islar: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well, like some of the reports had to do with relationships and people in our lives... What if in every encounter we *knew* that there were obscurations we were imposing...
Bruce Mowbray muses: Only with play does mastery become effortless.
Bleu Oleander: have to go .... thank you all .... thanks Pema, look forward to the next chapter :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Blue :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bleu*
Adams Dubrovna: bte Bleu
Sharry Ragu: ã‹¡
Sharry Ragu: take care Blue
Baeric Constantine: bye
Baeric Constantine: bye Bleu - go well :)
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Bleu.
Darren Islar: bye bleu
Fefonz Quan: bye Blue
Sharry Ragu: how about the mind blow when you become aware of the obscurities you apply!! :))
Darren Islar: I think you are right Bruce, there needs to be play involved
Uns Mistwalker: yes, Sharry, leads to a whole lot of keeping one's mouth shut.
Sharry Ragu: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Darren Islar: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: quietly slips away also ^^
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now All :))
Uns Mistwalker: gye Sophia
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye ssl
Adams Dubrovna: bye Sharon
Baeric Constantine: bye
Baeric Constantine: Bye Sophia
Sharry Ragu: tc!
Eden Haiku: I also have to go to return a phone call. Bye everyone :))
Darren Islar: quitly ssays goodbye
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone who´s leaving
Adams Dubrovna: bye Eden and Darren
Pema Pera: bye Darren and Sharon!
Fefonz Quan: bye Eden, Darren
Pema Pera: and everyone leaving :)
Darren Islar: no I was saying goodbye to others :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye those whose names end with 'n'
Baeric Constantine: bye
Baeric Constantine is aware of people leaving, so focuses, and gives them attention to say bye to those leaving
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry DarreN
Fefonz Quan: wb Darren :)
Sharry Ragu: lol
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray: May I suggest a real-world application here?
Sharry Ragu: please do
Bruce Mowbray: [bell's going to ring in a moment....]
Bruce Mowbray: I'll try to squeeze it in before the bell....
Eliza Madrigal: In SL we can see when someone makes a change... they may show up as a cat or diff gender... we dont see that in RL but I think it happens...
Pema Pera: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry Bruce. Listening :)

Click to the next session for the exciting conclusion of this morrning's twin session and hear more about Bruce's real-world application (or how the real World Turns) but first a word from our sponsor (hehe)

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