2010.08.18 07:00 - The Mystery of Mr. Magoo

The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
Eliza Madrigal: at the moment my viewer seems to be spinning
Gaya Ethaniel: :(

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :))
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Gaya and Eliza.
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: I am well, thank you. I hope both of you are also well and happy today.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes thank you :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Any topics you'd like to discuss Bruce and Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray thinking: SO many! Don't know where to begin!
Gaya Ethaniel: :D
Eliza Madrigal: is excited when she comes to a session with 'too many topics to choose'
Gaya Ethaniel: Well you could pick one ... :)
Bruce Mowbray: It's a bit like letting oneself be seen - - by everything? by one thing? by sky, earth, heavens?
Gaya Ethaniel: What is 'it' Bruce?
Eliza Madrigal: waiting for something to jump out to be shared?
Bruce Mowbray: I've been reading THE FRUITFUL DARKNESS by Joan Halifax.
Eliza Madrigal: Ooooo nice title!
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it might be that. . .
Bruce Mowbray: For me, it's like waiting for something to choose to look.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Gaya :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Agatha.
Agatha Macbeth: Hey Liz :)
Agatha Macbeth: And hello Brucie
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes letting things arise naturally is fine with me too while sitting together silently.
Bruce Mowbray: It's a very humbling experience -- Would the sky want to look at me? Or this enormous oak in my yard? Or perhaps these birds -- would they want to look?
Gaya Ethaniel: Or one could see that ... the feathery clouds are us ... cooling winds ... a forest with sun streaming between dense green leaves ... it's me!
Gaya Ethaniel: :P
Bruce Mowbray: Precisely so, Gaya.
Eliza Madrigal smiles, sways
Bruce Mowbray: Inviting the world to see us, then, is a continuum of awareness between what we used to think of as "us" and the world -- One Thing, not two, or many.
Eliza Madrigal: last night the drop exploration took a little turn for me... from 'drop what you have to see what you are' to 'drop what you have for what you are'... no seeing...
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Eliza Madrigal: wondered if this was a bit of the 'being seen' sensibility....
Eliza Madrigal: allowing awareness
Agatha Macbeth: I'm sure pema could tell us :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) well, pema would ask "What do you think?" hahah
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bruce Mowbray: Dropping what we have for what we are - - - One of the things we "have" is an idea that we are a separate self.

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Or many separate selves?
Gaya Ethaniel: phone
Eliza Madrigal: indeed...
Agatha Macbeth: Ring ring...
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed – an infinity of "others" into which our separateness disappears.
Bruce Mowbray: I am aware, for example, that every breath I take in is an inhalation of an infinity of beings from the past...
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Pema.
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Pem :)
Agatha Macbeth: Talk of the devil...
Gaya Ethaniel: /afk
Pema Pera: Hi Agatha, Gaya, Eliza, Bruce!
Eliza Madrigal grins @ agatha
Pema Pera looking for his horns in his inventory . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema!
Bruce Mowbray: That the air that nourishes me comes from plants, who, in turn, have been nourished by composted tissues from once-living beings.
Agatha Macbeth: Ha
Bruce Mowbray: So as I breathe, I breathe the "past" ---
Bruce Mowbray: There is an unbroken continuum -- and that is only one example.
Agatha Macbeth: When we look at stars we are looking at the past
Gaya Ethaniel: back
Eliza Madrigal: yet they are 'here'
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: When the stars look at us. . . they are looking at. . . ?
Agatha Macbeth ponders
Eliza Madrigal: might be fun to ask :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: What do you think, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bruce Mowbray: To exclude any being - living or not - from the continuum denies part of what we are.
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Agatha Macbeth: 'It's the star man waiting in the sky'
Pema Pera: (just to show I read the note card with the chat log for today, that I got from Eliza)
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, you could have gotten away with showing how all-knowing you are, Pema
Pema Pera: ha!
Agatha Macbeth: Mr Omniscience ;-)
Pema Pera looking around, quizzically
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: letting yourself be seen is such a rich topic . . .
Pema Pera: by the stars, or by the light of the stars, or by the visual phenomena that we call stars, or by Being playing any of the above, or . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: Yes. Indeed it is. I have been wondering if this is what shamans do -- let themselves be seen in order to transform adversaries into Protectors.
Pema Pera: no doubt that is a large part of it!
Bruce Mowbray: Arch calls himself a shaman.
Agatha Macbeth: Shamanism is a very interesting subject
Bruce Mowbray: I think that's one of the reasons he always wears an animal on his body.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: And you Bruce?
Eliza Madrigal: Who is Blub?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Well, what I'm sort of "pushing toward" here is that by allowing ourselves to be "seen" we enter into a profound tradition. . . of transmission and healing.
Agatha Macbeth: Blub is a satellite in orbit around planet Bruce :)
Pema Pera: and losing ourselves . . . at least the too-small image we have of our self usually
Bruce Mowbray smiles and laughs inwardly -- and so does Blub.
Agatha Macbeth can hear blub laughing
Eliza Madrigal: from within bruce
Gaya Ethaniel: Or seeing ourselves in a larger context ... rather than closed up with identifications, emotions etc.
Pema Pera: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: How can it not be nourishing :)
Bruce Mowbray: I hope this does not yank us too far a-field, but I saw INCEPTION last night . . .
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: great, what did you think of it?
Eliza Madrigal listens
Bruce Mowbray: and was concerned about all of the violence folks encountered in their dreams.
Eliza Madrigal: concerned?
Pema Pera: well, that's to make it a commercial success, unfortunately
Bruce Mowbray: Was thinking that is these individuals had done better PaB-type work during their waking hours, their dreams would not have been burdened with so much violence.
Bruce Mowbray: if these individuals....
Pema Pera: but then it wouldn't sell very well, probably
Pema Pera: avatar sold well too, with lots of violence unfortunately . . .

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: . . . yes, commercials reasons. . . but taken as literature. . .
Eliza Madrigal: and well, when the idea is to keep 'others' out, there is bound to be violence to some degree....?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza, you have hit it right on the nail! That's exactly the reason I brought up the movie -- and you've made the point perfectly.
Gaya Ethaniel: Violence in dreams sometimes isn’t about violent actions themselves.
Agatha Macbeth: She usually does! :)
Eliza Madrigal: =P~
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes a good point Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal is like Mr Magoo
Pema Pera: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Rather than working with "adversaries" in our waking lives (as shamans do), we go in "heroics" in our dream lives to "win". . .
Gaya Ethaniel: What's Mr Magoo?
Bruce Mowbray: and so there is much violence in dreams.
Agatha Macbeth: Ha, Waldo!
Pema Pera: you think there is much violence in dreams in general, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Mr. Magoo is a good analogy. . . he "blindly" wander through life. . .
Eliza Madrigal: He is a cartoon character who is completely blind but keeps walking along and the environment seems to respond to his good intentions... saving him from terrible falls and happenings continually
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: It is as if Mr. Magoo's environment sees him blundering along and is compassionate toward him.
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bruce Mowbray: We are all Mr. Magoo's, huh?
Pema Pera: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Suppose he's a content lot.
Gaya Ethaniel: contented
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... which does speak to the point re violence in Inception and dreams and life as well
Eliza Madrigal: Gaya, more you can say about violence not being violence?
Gaya Ethaniel: Violent dreams for me are rare [I'm talking about non-'residual' types of dreams ...] so sometimes it can be pointing to things happening in my life etc.
Bruce Mowbray: In the movie, there was much made of the "projections" - parts of our sub-conscious that "stare" at us --- concerned for our protection-preservation? Do these "projections" (in the movie and in Gaya's experience) "point toward" things happening. . . that we should pay more attention to?
Gaya Ethaniel: As you said, struggling as a result of blocking others out can manifest as a sort of violence in one's dream?
Gaya Ethaniel: Haven't had such a dream yet but anyway :P
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! That is SUCH a valuable understanding, Gaya.
Eliza Madrigal: so it seems what you keyed into re the film and being seen... is openness, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: The only way to work with afflictive emotions is to encounter them directly, enter their world, and let them transform us as we transform them.
Gaya Ethaniel: I think a lot are missed by one's waking self and come up during dreams if that's what they meant by 'projections'.
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps radical openness is in some sense its own protection
Bruce Mowbray: how is that, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: if one isn't holding back, hiding, there is a kind of disarming... nothing to loose....
Eliza Madrigal: lose
Bruce Mowbray: Do you mean a way of "surrendering"?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Much more resources become available you mean?
Bruce Mowbray: I see, thank you.
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, really interesting thought Gaya
Bruce Mowbray: For me, surrendering in a contemplative sense means that whatever I felt could "overwhelm" me becomes one with me - so our energies and strengths are united -- "Other" becomes "One Self."
Eliza Madrigal: so enemies are just radical friends... hehe
Bruce Mowbray: Both Other and Self disappear in the process.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes our enemies, in truth, become our Best friends.
Pema Pera: encountering emotions directly, going into them fully, does seem to be essential, but going into them without believing them -- feeling their strength but not feeding it further by reifying -- similar perhaps

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I'm struck by that, Pema! 'feeling their strength'... seems a respect or acknowledgement
Pema Pera: by seeing emotions as other, as outside my core self, as something I have, and as something to fight, strengthens them -- while taking an open stance may allow them to play out without sticking; but all that is easier said than done :-)
Pema Pera nods at Eliza
Pema Pera: hi Qt!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Qt :)
Qt Core: Hi all
Eliza Madrigal: play out without sticking... hmm..
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :))
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Qt :)
Bruce Mowbray: Our personal "hurts" (and adversaries) show us the Woundedness of the World -- and that all sufferings are shared. . . Thus, compassion emerges as a natural healer/healing.
Eliza Madrigal: like a fountain..
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Qt.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I'm learning more about the mind that sees something as an enemy ...
Agatha Macbeth: 'A dagger of the mind'
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: mmm.... nodding....thinking...
Bruce Mowbray: The notion that we have individual minds is a great delusion of Western thought.
Pema Pera: yes, it's one-sided, a half-truth
Bruce Mowbray: Think ourselves to be separate thinkers, we also suppose that we need to defend our thoughts.
Bruce Mowbray: Defend our minds as if they were our SELVES.
Pema Pera: there is also beauty in individuality, of each organism
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, yes
Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's a valid idea in a limited context though.
Pema Pera: and beauty in seeing it all as part of the whole tapestry
Bruce Mowbray: The beauty of individuality is that each particular reflects the Whole -
Eliza Madrigal: yes I was considering the particularness of each expression... nothing like it before or after...
Bruce Mowbray: Indra's Net.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I think what may have been lost in the idea is to see and to be able to put it in a larger context.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes seeing the whole ...
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza, and yet -- everything like it, before and after. Much danger in literalism, here ;-)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Pema Pera: has anyone ever build an Indra's Net in SL? Would be fantastic!
Eliza Madrigal: well I wouldn't want to be trapped in indra's net...
Agatha Macbeth: What is it?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Pema, appreciate the individuality in the whole tapestry :)
Bruce Mowbray: I made one with a 3D program.... I'll see if I can find it...
Eliza Madrigal: not even in something so wonderful as that
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, neat Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Well I know Indra, but never knew about his net
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: if you knew indra, like I know indra... oh, oh...
Agatha Macbeth: Ah well...
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: Eliza is throwing an Indra's net
Eliza Madrigal: heheh, Agatha does that to me
Agatha Macbeth: ??
Eliza Madrigal points and looks innocent
Agatha Macbeth scratches her head
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: eliza plays one of the many jewels in Indra's net reflecting all the other jewels, including Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, ok
Bruce Mowbray: I found it and am uploading it now...
Eliza Madrigal: sounds mischievous
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds cute :)
Pema Pera: will we be assimilated?
Agatha Macbeth: Qt will
Eliza Madrigal: hahaa
Qt Core: never ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: ty Bruce
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Pema Pera: ah, Qt, all resistance is futile!
Eliza Madrigal: flipping and slipping from the net...
Pema Pera: oh, very nice, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: I made this a few years ago with a #D graphics program.
Pema Pera: very Escher-esque
Bruce Mowbray: The spheres are supposed to be the gems in Indra's net.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, wild Bruce. Thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Hm, kaleidoscopic
Pema Pera: Indra with a good-hair-day
Qt Core: ty bruce
Bruce Mowbray: You're welcome.
Eliza Madrigal: one can be a hermit perhaps, and still totally engaged...
Gaya Ethaniel: Nice :)
Bruce Mowbray: But, you know, any image of anything would also be an image of Indra's Net, no?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: since everything is connected and reflective of everything else.
Pema Pera sneaking out, having just entered Thursday, and ready to dream about Indra's Net -- thank you all !
Gaya Ethaniel: I have to go ... thanks everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, Pema. Be well.
Pema Pera: bfn
Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now Pem, take care
Eliza Madrigal: fractals you mean Bruce... Eden will enjoy reading this
Agatha Macbeth: You too Gaya
Qt Core: bye Pema
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema and Gaya
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, aggers, Be well!
Eliza Madrigal: I should go too...
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Eliza!
Qt Core: and Gaya and Eliza too
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Everyone! Hugs
Agatha Macbeth: Is the time session tomorrow Liz?
Eliza Madrigal: It is Friday Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Fridayok
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Bye
Eliza Madrigal: :) See you!
Bruce Mowbray: bye!
Eliza Madrigal waves
Bruce Mowbray: You came in on the tail end of quite a discussion, Qt.
Qt Core: so it seems, i was doing something important before... napping ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: I've been here for an hour -- and my dog is wondering when we'll go for our morning hike.
Bruce Mowbray: But I don't want to leave if you had something you wished to discuss or share.
Qt Core: hi Mick
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Mickorod.
Mickorod Renard: hiya Qt, Bruce
Mickorod Renard: hi lucinda
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Luci.
Qt Core: i'm thinking about all those connections and dependencies, against my preference about being a lone island
Mickorod Renard: hey Qt, I may be able to make it to the assisi retreat
Qt Core: hi Luci
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Bruce, Mickorod, Qt
Bruce Mowbray: The whole first hour of our session here was devoted to that theme, Qt.
Qt Core: nice read the post, i have "only" the problem to how to manage the rest of my family that need almost continuous assistance/presence
Bruce Mowbray: Essentially, how when we let ourselves be seen by the world, we discover a continuum of shared being.
Qt Core: i will surely read the log then!
Mickorod Renard: is that a recent log?
Lucinda Lavender: me too
Bruce Mowbray: with all that implies -- including adversaries, woundedness, shared energies, and shared capacity fo compassion and healing.
Qt Core: this session one, mick ;-)
Mickorod Renard: great
Mickorod Renard: wish I had come on earlier
Qt Core: i'm more concerned/interested in why/if/when one would do that, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: No, Mick -- I was trying to summarize the previous hour's discussion right here - during this session.
Mickorod Renard: I see
Bruce Mowbray: ok-- Qt -- I am trying to understand your point: Why one would allow himself to be seen by the world? Is that what you mean?
Qt Core: yes, and the opposite too, why one would want to see the world, knowledge is power and, sometimes, pain
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the first and easiest answer to your question is --- That's what this week's Time Magic assignment was: to let ourselves be seen by whatever is "outside" of us.
Bruce Mowbray: (chapter Three).
Bruce Mowbray: of Pema's Time Magic book,
Bruce Mowbray: so folks were beginning to do that and beginning to share their results.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I will not try to relate others' experiences here, only to say that for me the exercise involved a profound "shift."
Qt Core: should read that, i'm, having problems in understandi how that relate to time
Mickorod Renard: sounds similar to earlier stuff we did Qt
Bruce Mowbray: For me (and I can speak only for myself) - there was/is a "discovery" that all time is continuous.
Mickorod Renard: yes, i was wondering that too
Lucinda Lavender: would you want to say more Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: That as I breathe in this air - which has been made by plants -- out of the compost of an infinite number of living things of the past...
Qt Core: are those writing available on the pab site, right ?
Bruce Mowbray: then I breathe in the entire continuity of Time itself.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, all of this will be available on the wiki --- (for better or for worse!!!)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Mickorod Renard: thats like a phenemology twist on it bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! Like a sort of "reverse" phenomenology -- I guess.
Bruce Mowbray: It is the stuff that shamans do ---
Mickorod Renard: nice
Bruce Mowbray: Enter into the energies of their adversaries -- in order to surrender to that energy -- and thereby be transformed by it ---
Bruce Mowbray: no more adversaries --- no more self/other duality.
Mickorod Renard: share with the oneness?
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed --
Bruce Mowbray: discover self-less-ness and that this is entirely how it is -- right now -- and right every-now.
Bruce Mowbray: That there is, perhaps, a larger mind of which our individual minds are sub-systems.
Bruce Mowbray: A it like the shared dreams on INCEPTION.
Bruce Mowbray: a bit like.
Qt Core: again this inception thing... and it won't be avaiable here until a month!
Mickorod Renard: I try and do this from time to time,,for me its like bathing in a warm rainfall,,it has to cascade
Bruce Mowbray: same for me, Mick. It is not something I can do continuously -- It sort of "pendulates" back and forth.
Bruce Mowbray: Me, then, me-as-all, then me again, then me-as-all again, etc.
Mickorod Renard: yea,for me the theoretical bathing is like the all consuming connection
Bruce Mowbray: Do you see "bathing" as a Real world ritual, then, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: funnily , yes
Mickorod Renard: although I forget the link
Bruce Mowbray: (many traditions do --- either as cleansing/purification or as Baptism.... etc.)
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: water too is significant
Bruce Mowbray: For eight years I taught in a medium security state prison. . .
Mickorod Renard: listens?
Bruce Mowbray: and at the end of each day, I would go to the local YMCA and take a long shower -- to wash off the negativity -- the fear, and anger and grief of my work environment.
Mickorod Renard: ah yes
Bruce Mowbray: otherwise I'd end up taking all the carp home with me.
Bruce Mowbray: crap.
Mickorod Renard: I can understand
Bruce Mowbray: eventually I came to understand that it was NOT something I could wash away so easily.
Bruce Mowbray: I guess we're going to be showered here in 5 minutes!
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Bruce Mowbray: a cleansing!
Mickorod Renard: well,i can connect with what u are thinking Bruce
Lucinda Lavender: Just wanted to say I am reading an interesting book called Bereavemnt Dreaming and the individuating Soul...
Mickorod Renard: I too had unsavory tasks during my work
Bruce Mowbray: yes? go on, please (or until we get washed away).

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: yes, Luci? please say more.
Mickorod Renard: was it good,the book?
Lucinda Lavender: :)Well just wanted to say I have just started it and it is good...
Lucinda Lavender: I will report more as I go.
Lucinda Lavender: it is quite relevant to discussion of being I think
Mickorod Renard: great,,willu take your findings to the dream session?
Lucinda Lavender: unfortunately I cannot because I am at work during Maxines session
Mickorod Renard: owww
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Bereavement-Dr...2&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Lucinda Lavender: thanks Bruce
Mickorod Renard: ty bruce
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Bruce Mowbray: np -- I think I better move on now -- lest I get swept away with the cleansings about to happen here.
Lucinda Lavender: there is discussion there using the word transliminality
Mickorod Renard: yes ,,me too
Lucinda Lavender: me too
Bruce Mowbray: trans-liminality -- the sharing of thresholds?
Lucinda Lavender: have a great day all
Qt Core: ok, bye then ;-)
Mickorod Renard: and qt,,let me know how the assisi trip pans out
Lucinda Lavender: yes I think so
Bruce Mowbray: Yes -- may all be well and happy today!
Qt Core: ok
Qt Core: bye
Mickorod Renard: bye bruce
Mickorod Renard: bye all
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Mick.