2010.08.24 19:00 - Closures of Being

 

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

 

Highlights:   Aphrodite's story of her day,

coming from/being seen

closures of being

 

Eliza Madrigal: Aph, are you on the ground, or is my viewer not working correctly?

Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza!

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox! So nice to see you

Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'm on the ground. Do I look like I'm floating?

Fox Monacular: it's been a while!

Eliza Madrigal: you are near the notecard holder and not in the pavillion to my 'view' Aph

 

--BELL--

 

Eliza Madrigal: Yes Fox, too long :)

Fox Monacular: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: I don't understand what ou aid

Eliza Madrigal: :) That's okay... might be my viewer

Aphrodite Macbain: you Eliza

Fox Monacular: hey Eos!

Eliza Madrigal: no worries :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza, Fox, Aphro

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eos

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you appeared in the pavillion now Aph

Eliza Madrigal: (to me)

Aphrodite Macbain: Hopeyou don't mind the fact that I brought my own school of fish

Eos Amaterasu: Fox is pale as death....

Eliza Madrigal: It seems to be a trend...

Eliza Madrigal: not paleness... fishiness...

Fox Monacular: jellyfish

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: Fox was pale this morning. I thought he was getting married

Fox Monacular: can i join your school, Aphro?

Fox Monacular: :) hehe

Eliza Madrigal: jellyfish..,. cute

Aphrodite Macbain: Sure. why not be the teacher?

 

Aphrodite recounts the story of her day

 

Aphrodite Macbain: I had a strange day today

Eliza Madrigal listens

Aphrodite Macbain: I'm on an island on the west coast of Canada. Gabriola Island

Aphrodite Macbain: I went for a walk on these beautiful slabs of limestone rock

Eliza Madrigal: mmm, sounds really nice

Aphrodite Macbain: and watched a boat trying valiantly to get into a small bay but constantly failing because of the current

Eos Amaterasu: hmm

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)

Aphrodite Macbain: I was very worried about them, afraid they might capsize but being helpless to help

Eos Amaterasu: (hi Pema)

Aphrodite Macbain: He Pema

Fox Monacular: hi Pema

Pema Pera: hi Eos, Eliza, Fox, Aphrodite!

Eos Amaterasu: Aphro is telling the story of her day

Eliza Madrigal gave pema a note

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :) I'll give you a note too...

 

Aphrodite Macbain: After trying for an agonizingly long period of time they were able to sail back where they came from. The current was so strong they couldn't motor against it

Paradise Tennant: smiles hello .. everyone :) waiting to rezz :)

Fox Monacular: Hi Paradise!

Aphrodite Macbain: Very tense. Then I put my hand on a wasp (they're everywhere) and it stung me badly.

Pema Pera: (Hi Paradise)

Fox Monacular: oh no...

Eliza Madrigal: ouch

Paradise Tennant: listens concerned

Pema Pera holds his breath

Aphrodite Macbain: It still is sore and swollen 4 hrs later. How can something so tiny make such a large impact!?

Eos Amaterasu: hmm

Eliza Madrigal: Oh, there is a question :)

Fox Monacular: sounds terrible, Aphro

Eliza Madrigal: Do you relate the two events somehow Aphrodite?

Aphrodite Macbain: Anyway I made the day very frightening, Thank you for listening. I don't know what it all means

Eos Amaterasu: thank you for sharing that in this space

 

Fox Monacular: perhaps sometimes a wasp is just a wasp:)

Eliza Madrigal giggles

Aphrodite Macbain: That's what I've been wondering Eliza. It was like I was paying so much attention to the boat that I didn't notice I wS PUTTING MY HAND ONTO wasp

Eos Amaterasu: hmm hmm leads to sting sting

Aphrodite Macbain: sorry about the caps. Yes, it could be totally meaningless- just stressful to me

Eliza Madrigal: understandable

Eos Amaterasu: the day is kind of symbolic of itself

Aphrodite Macbain: sting sing... sounds like an interesting proposition

Aphrodite Macbain: what would be the symbol? dealing with adversity?

Eos Amaterasu got stung by 6 wasps recently....

Eliza Madrigal hears jazz... sing sing sing...

Aphrodite Macbain: six!!?

Eliza Madrigal: 6?!

Fox Monacular: 6?

Aphrodite Macbain: there was a reaction!

Pema Pera: wow

Fox Monacular: i've only been stung once i think... in my whole life

Aphrodite Macbain: did you go to hospital?

Pema Pera: lucky you, Fox!

Eos Amaterasu: I didn't even realize they were there: apparently I mowed close to a nest they had in a beam

Eliza Madrigal: me too Fox, at least by a wasp...

Aphrodite Macbain: It's very painful. No stinger, just poison

Eos Amaterasu: suddenly I felt all these stings

Eos Amaterasu: (felt like a WW II movie :-)

Eliza Madrigal: haha

Eos Amaterasu: I immediately retreated

Fox Monacular: sounds bad

Aphrodite Macbain: ouch.

Eos Amaterasu: the stings were long lasting

Paradise Tennant: http://www.ehow.com/how_2048_treat-bee-sting.html

Pema Pera: and then you did realize they were there . . .

Aphrodite Macbain: what did youdo?

Eos Amaterasu: I googled :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: bee stings are different from wasp stings Paradise

Paradise Tennant: bee sting 101 .. there are all kinds of things you can to reduce the pain

Eliza Madrigal: well you pee on them... Oh, wait, that;s jellyfish...

Aphrodite Macbain: bees leave their stinger, wasps just lots of poison

Eliza Madrigal: (Sorry)

Aphrodite Macbain: I went to a doctor and he gave me an ice pack

Eos Amaterasu: Now I realize they are there....

Eos Amaterasu: (the bees)

Eos Amaterasu: in some kind of weird ecology in an old railroad tie

Pema Pera: what did google say, Eos?

Aphrodite Macbain: that's good don't disturb them unleass you are wearing the right stuff

Eos Amaterasu: baking soda

 

--BELL--

 

Aphrodite Macbain: yes. that's suppose to reduce the swelling

Paradise Tennant: benedryl ?

Eos Amaterasu: do you know that spot well, Aphrodite?

Pema Pera: I once stepped on a wasp, near a swimming pool, got stung in the middle of a toe, underneath, very painful, and very hard to walk for a few days . . . .

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that happened to my daughter... walking across grass in sandals

Aphrodite Macbain: no I just discovered it today Eos. Actually most distrubing was watching a sailboat foundering in the wather and being helpless

Pema Pera: yes

Aphrodite Macbain: to help

Aphrodite Macbain: the curent was very very strong

Aphrodite Macbain: kind of hit a deep fear in me

Eliza Madrigal: powerlessness..

Eos Amaterasu: yes, when you realize it's really out of your control, and could be dangerous....

Aphrodite Macbain: Yes absolutely powerless to help

Aphrodite Macbain: yes you understand thanks

Pema Pera: hi Dakini!

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi

Paradise Tennant: hiya dakini

Fox Monacular: Hi Dakini

Aphrodite Macbain: It'slike you are watching a disaster hapen

Eliza Madrigal: O.O! Hi Dakini :)

Aphrodite Macbain: happen

Eos Amaterasu: sometimes "deep in my heart I know there's no help I can bring"

Paradise Tennant: what happened to the sailboat :)

Aphrodite Macbain: what's that quote?

Eos Amaterasu: from "To Ramona", by Bob Dylan (Sinead Lohan performance)

Pema Pera: nice song . . .

Aphrodite Macbain: it finally was able to turn itself around and go out the way it came in - it went with the flow

Aphrodite Macbain: I helled and waved and said "yay!"

Paradise Tennant: smiles

Aphrodite Macbain: yelled

Dakini Rhode: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: but it was a real drama that I felt is was watching from a safe place-like a TV show

 

Paradise sees flare over water

 

Paradise Tennant: once was waking up looking out at the water and saw a flare about 7.30 on a november snowy morning .. blinked for a while and then called the harbour police with the co-ordinates .. :) then felt very quilty as I watched them head out against choppy waves in the cold ..

Eliza Madrigal nods. You paint the picture well Aphrodite

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks. What happened Paradise

Pema Pera: but you helped them, Paradise, why did you feel guilty?

Paradise Tennant: got home from work that nite and there was a thank you message from them .. turns out a boater was trying to move his power boat had engine failure and was close to running aground on some rocks .. he had only one flare and sleepy me saw it :)

Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful!

Pema Pera: how lucky he was!!

Aphrodite Macbain: how wonderful. You were able to make a significantdifference

Paradise Tennant: well could not really think of any good reason some one who was not in distress would shoot off a flare

Paradise Tennant: but miserable day to have to go out in

Paradise Tennant: smiles we are all connected :)

Pema Pera: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: There are so any times that we have choices to act or not

Aphrodite Macbain: so many

Aphrodite Macbain: It takes something extra to act

Aphrodite Macbain: my computer doesnt know how to spell

 

Coming from, like being seen

 

Eos Amaterasu: we make the best decision we can, or try to come from a good place doing so

Paradise Tennant: smiles yes but ultimately is easier ..

Paradise Tennant: acting

Eliza Madrigal: blame it on cereal in the keyboard, like bruce does :)

Paradise Tennant: smiles

Aphrodite Macbain: yes - but we usually realize that after the fact Paradie

Pema Pera: nice twist Eos, to come from rather than to go to

Paradise Tennant: yes

Aphrodite Macbain: ok even tho it's not breakfast time?

Pema Pera: like being seen instead of trying to see

Paradise Tennant: yes

Pema Pera: something I've been exploring a lot since the last retreat

Eos Amaterasu listens

Paradise Tennant: can you say more pema :)

Pema Pera: and coming from, being prepared, sounds broader than going to, which can be too narrow

Aphrodite Macbain: yes Pema?

Pema Pera: similarly trying to see is narrow

Pema Pera: you focus on one spot

Pema Pera: while letting yourself be seen is much broader

Pema Pera: you fan out, letting all be in non-focus in some way

Pema Pera: hard to put in words . . .

Aphrodite Macbain: How do you "let" yourself be seen?

Pema Pera: just try it and it will grow on you -- that was my experience at least, it's still growing :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: relax ?

Pema Pera: part of it, yes

Pema Pera: you can start with a very simple exercise

Aphrodite Macbain: stop pretending?

Pema Pera: take an object, a stone say, or a tree

Aphrodite Macbain: yes?

Pema Pera: and instead of looking at the stone, let the stone look at you

Pema Pera: and just sit or stand with that for a few minutes

Pema Pera: not expecting anything at all

Pema Pera: not judging

Pema Pera: just letting yourself be seen

Aphrodite Macbain: become self consious?

Pema Pera: as the object, not the subject, of the seeing

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)

Aphrodite Macbain: oh

stevenaia Michinaga: evening

Eos Amaterasu: looking at the fountain....

Pema Pera: drop all judging, including about consciousness or "what it means"

Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Stevenia

 

--BELL--

 

Pema Pera: hi Steve!

Eos Amaterasu: fountain looking at me

Aphrodite Macbain: that's a tough one Pema

Aphrodite Macbain: laptop loking at me

Dakini Rhode: hi Steve

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Dikini, ltns

stevenaia Michinaga: Dakini

Dakini Rhode: :)

Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya steve :)

Aphrodite Macbain: join us steve

Fox Monacular: interesting, letting the object look at you... like freudian uncanny?

Fox Monacular: Hi Steve!

Eos Amaterasu: hi Steve, Dakini...

Aphrodite Macbain: trouble is i see myself reflected in my monitor

Eos Amaterasu: can you say more, Fox?

stevenaia Michinaga: as soon as things rezz, I have a bad habit of finding occupied pillows to sit on

Aphrodite Macbain: sit to the right of the redhed

Aphrodite Macbain: redhead

Eos Amaterasu: :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Eliza Madrigal: Um... there are two :)

Eos Amaterasu: :-) :-)

Fox Monacular: the feeling that an object (often in the context of a work of art) returns your gaze and actively imposes its own

Aphrodite Macbain: oops.

Pema Pera: ( Aphrodite, two years ago we played with some of these subject/object reversal ideas in a Kira workshop; here is some material left from then

Pema Pera: yes, it is often felt as uncanny, Fox, at first

Pema Pera: adding some spice :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: Hey thanks Pema

Aphrodite Macbain: Amazing you were able to find this so quickly!

Pema Pera: btw, Eos, that's another wiki that needs to be copied -- or it will be lost

Pema Pera: well, I organized that workshop :-)

Pema Pera: so I still remember :)

Eos Amaterasu: (will remind tech group)

 

Eliza introduces closure, and Pema and Eos run with it

 

Eliza Madrigal: uncanny seems to go back to suspension for me... as does being seen... as in 'no closure' which was a screwy idea in the first place

Eos Amaterasu: 'no closure'?

Pema Pera: (or perhaps it was already copied? let's check later)

Eliza Madrigal: closure was a screwy idea, I mean ... :)

Aphrodite Macbain: could you say more Eliza?

Eos Amaterasu: closure vs disclosure?

Eos Amaterasu: greek word for truth = aletheia : a (from) lethe (forgetfulness)

Eliza Madrigal: not much, except that I've been working with staying open to being seen...

Aphrodite Macbain: =disclosure?

Eos Amaterasu: how does that feel?

Eliza Madrigal: and there is much to that which seems to demand being in tension... or getting comfortable with not finishing/fixing

Pema Pera: or perhaps relaxing in the tension, without trying to cut/end the tension?

Eliza Madrigal: tension not quite as in conflict though it seems similar at first

Aphrodite Macbain: that's really hard for me. to let things just "be"

Eliza Madrigal: yes Pema, relaxing IN the tension... interesting way of putting that

Paradise Tennant: nods and listens

Eos Amaterasu: the tension is also a fish

Eliza Madrigal: I think Eos's coming 'from' has a similar taste...

Aphrodite Macbain wonders how she would relax in the tension

Eliza Madrigal: a fish? haha

Pema Pera: closure is like putting a wrapper around it, a stamp, a judgment to store it away in memory, to organize the world according to the little schemes of the self/ego -- something like that, Eliza?

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks for the fish

Pema Pera: :-)

Eliza Madrigal thinks that by the time she catches up with the fish thing happening around here everyone will have moved on to birds again...

Eliza Madrigal: or cats :)

Pema Pera: to eat the fish and the birds?

Aphrodite Macbain wonders what it IS about fish

Eliza Madrigal nods @ Pema re wrappers

Eos Amaterasu: beautiful wrappers are encitements to opening

Pema Pera: :0(

Pema Pera: :-)

Fox Monacular: and mysterious:)

Pema Pera: (sorry, typo!)

Pema Pera: sushi on keyboard

Aphrodite Macbain: what do you do with wrapped closures? put them in the freezer?

Eos Amaterasu: :-)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Pema Pera: yes, it's called memory, Aphro :)

Aphrodite Macbain: Got to go and listen to some drumming in the woods. I'll make sure to avoid any wasps

Eliza Madrigal: hahaha

Pema Pera: freezing one's world according to one's own ideas . . . .

Pema Pera: good luck, Aphrodite!

 

Eos Amaterasu finds this intriguing re closures in programming languages....

Pema Pera: ah, yes!

Aphrodite Macbain grins at Pema

Aphrodite Macbain: Bye

Eliza Madrigal: Bye Aphrodite, enjoy :)

Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for listening

Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Eos?

Aphrodite Macbain: bye

Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for sharing :)

Eos Amaterasu: bye Aphro, and thanks so much for sharing your day

Paradise Tennant: goodnite aprhodite

Pema Pera: closure is a way to "wrap up" a world and pass it on to somewhere else -- wouldn't you say, Eos?

Pema Pera: instead of paying with coins, you pay with a whole "state of a world"

Eos Amaterasu: yes, it's a way to wrap whatever happens within a certain state, or initial state

Pema Pera: so when you want to share a world, it's good to wrap it up

Eos Amaterasu: I'm Popeye the sailor man

Pema Pera: but when you wrap up your own world to put it into the freezer of memory, that may not be so good . . .

Eos Amaterasu: that's a closure around Being

 

--BELL--

 

Pema Pera thinks computer programming should be taught in early elementary school, together with reading, writing, adding, multiplying -- equally fundamental as a way of thinking and looking at the world.

Pema Pera: thanks for a great metaphor, Eos!

Eos Amaterasu: we should take our closures off :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Eliza Madrigal: ahaha

Pema Pera: interestingly, closures lead to meta-programming : changing the program while it is running!

Paradise Tennant: would certainly let us be seen :)

Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed Paradise

Pema Pera: using closures to then take them off :-)

Eliza Madrigal: another interesting idea Pema...

Eos Amaterasu: it's hard to grasp space with the naked hand

Fox Monacular: although sometimes it seems important to have a 'closure' in order to move on with being...

Pema Pera: a skin is a protection and also a communication channel . . . closures in codes are similar

Eos Amaterasu: nothing wrong with closures - can't live without 'em

Fox Monacular: thermodynamically open:)

Fox Monacular: like an autopoietic system

Pema Pera: (just googled closure; the term was invented in 1964, but became widespread through the use of the word in Scheme in 1975. . . interesting!)

Eos Amaterasu: we avs are but smart skins...

Eliza Madrigal: perhaps fixed closures are what hinders... which in that case they aren't really closed...

Eos Amaterasu: no expression without closures

Eos Amaterasu: no hand without skin

Pema Pera: another interesting computer science metaphor: closures delay evaluation!

Eos Amaterasu: futures!

Pema Pera: allow postponing of judgment

Pema Pera: wow

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Pema Pera: shall we start a Kira computer class for players as Being, Eos?

Eos Amaterasu: pre-collapse

Eos Amaterasu: heh

Pema Pera: only half kidding . . .

Eos Amaterasu: only half, yes

Eos Amaterasu: intentionality is call-by-future

Pema Pera: if you kid half also, we can do it together :-)

Eos Amaterasu: heh heh

Pema Pera: yes, epoche is closure !!!

Pema Pera: never thought about that

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eos Amaterasu: hmm, I suppose, yes: just that snowglobe

Pema Pera: watching a state without (yet) acting on it

Pema Pera: yes, the globe is a pretty good closure around the snow :)

Fox Monacular: (sorry everyone, need to go now.. good night!)

Eos Amaterasu: still in pre-collapse so to speak

Pema Pera: when shall we start our workshop, Eos?

Eliza Madrigal: Night Fox :)

Pema Pera: bye Fox!

Eliza Madrigal: Me too actually

Pema Pera: bye Eliza!

Eos Amaterasu: bye fox, eliza

Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for the lovely evening

Eos Amaterasu: wow, was going to say exactly that!

Pema Pera: same here!

Paradise Tennant: good nite fox elzia :)

Eliza Madrigal: :::waves::::

Paradise Tennant: namaste

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'

stevenaia Michinaga: I am fading, night all

Pema Pera: bye Steve!

Paradise Tennant: good nite steve ..

Paradise Tennant: I think I will scoot too :)

Eos Amaterasu: I will go after the gong, 'night steve

Paradise Tennant: thank you all :)

Paradise Tennant: be well .. :) be seen !

Dakini Rhode: i'll be off too... interesting watching the chat :)

Dakini Rhode: nite

Eos Amaterasu: Wow, I'm seeing you for the first time, Dakini

Pema Pera: bye Dakini, thaks for joining us again!

Pema Pera: really, Eos??

Eos Amaterasu: I kept wondering where Dakini was

Pema Pera: you mean first time ever, or first time today?

Pema Pera: and well, hahaha, we got some kind of closure by scaring everybody away talking about closures, hehehe

Eos Amaterasu: oh, first time today

Eos Amaterasu wonders if that was coincidence

Pema Pera: that very quickly cleaned out the whole circle :-)

Pema Pera: who knows, just (half) kidding

Pema Pera: lots of half kidding today

Eos Amaterasu: I think there is something there, in programming language design

Pema Pera: so, when shall we start our metaphoric meta programming workshop?

Eos Amaterasu: especially regarding implementing intentionality for software

Pema Pera: yes!

Eos Amaterasu: so that it is not only "artificially intelligent" but also "cares"

Eos Amaterasu: I think over the next month and a half I can integrate that with some of the things I've been doing

 

--BELL--

 

Pema Pera: btw, here is part of a preface by Matsumoto, the inventor of Ruby, for a book written by somebody else about metaprogramming:

Pema Pera:

Ruby inherits characteristics from various languages -- Lisp, Smalltalk, C, and Perl, to name a few. Meta- programming comes from Lisp (and Smalltalk). It's a bit like magic, which makes something astonishing possible. There are two kinds of magic: white magic, which does good things, and black magic, which can do nasty things. Likewise, there are two aspects to metaprogramming. If you discipline yourself, you can do good things, such as enhancing the language without tweaking its syntax by macros or enabling internal domain-specific languages. But you can fall into the dark side of metaprogramming. Metaprogramming can confuse easily. Ruby trusts you. Ruby treats you as a grown-up programmer. It gives you great power such as meta- programming. But you need to remember that with great power comes great responsibility. Enjoy programming in Ruby.

matz October 2009

Eos Amaterasu: sounds like "the force" :-)

Pema Pera: it's a great book, it sports two programmers, an experienced one and a relative beginner, and the more experienced one acts like a kind of friendly zen master :)

Pema Pera: let me get the URL, just a sec

Eos Amaterasu: I've come across this before: what is the book?

Pema Pera: Amazon link

 

Eos Amaterasu: Very nice evening. I just did a Pecha Kucha presentation on "Earth Cadet Net", with a few slides and seconds hinting at need for intentional programming

Pema Pera: oh how interesting!

Pema Pera: coding is "active math" or "math coming alive"

Pema Pera: what is a Pecha Kucha presentation?

Eos Amaterasu: Yes, we should pursue this further. I may prepare something more for a Knowledge Federation workshop....

Pema Pera: what is a Knowledge Federation workshop?

Pema Pera: (not from startrek??)

Eos Amaterasu: actually, yes :-)

Eos Amaterasu: (to starttrek)

Eos Amaterasu: but, 

Eos Amaterasu: 20 slides, each 20 seconds

Eos Amaterasu: started in Tokyo

Pema Pera: it's interesting: just reading that closures got popularized partly by Gerry Sussman, one of the inventors of scheme

Eos Amaterasu: yes, SICP

Pema Pera: Gerry's philosophy is: live life like debugging a code

Eos Amaterasu: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Pema Pera: in order words, the purpose of life is to run your life in order to debug it

Pema Pera: yes, I got sicp in 1983 from Gerry, as a pre-manuscript :)

Pema Pera: changed my coding style forever

Pema Pera: how interesing, pecha kucha, was about to quip that it sounded Japanese -- but it is :-)

Eos Amaterasu: those talks are all available as videos on the net from MIT

Eos Amaterasu: I think kind of like monkey chant sounds, the sounds of conversation

Eos Amaterasu: p'cha k'cha is how I say it

Pema Pera: yes, that's probably the best English reading

Eos Amaterasu: Chogyam Trungpa said that the monkey chant is the sound of naked sangha

Pema Pera: sound of chattering away

Eos Amaterasu: (fully disclosed?)

Pema Pera: like a babbling brook :-)

Eos Amaterasu: There'

Pema Pera: we should keep talking about this, Eos -- so many interesting ideas

 

Pema Pera: perhaps a theme meeting? We haven't had them for a while

Eos Amaterasu: yes.

Pema Pera: but may be too specialized?

Pema Pera: how many programmers do we have here:

Pema Pera: Wol, Fael, Storm, you, me, must be quite a few others . . . .

Pema Pera: Calvino of course

Eos Amaterasu: QT?

Pema Pera: who else?

Pema Pera: ah yes, Qt too

Eos Amaterasu: Fefonz

Pema Pera: yes

Pema Pera: Lia of course!

Eos Amaterasu: quite a group....

Pema Pera: funny how names bubble up in memory, as from a beer glass . . .

Pema Pera: must be more

Pema Pera: Riddle!

Pema Pera: okay, enough to fill the circle

Pema Pera: shall we pick a date?

Eos Amaterasu: next week?

Pema Pera: let's first think about time zones

Eos Amaterasu: give some advance notice

Pema Pera: probably not a 7 pm, for the Europeans

Pema Pera: not a 1 pm, since I'll sleep

Pema Pera: not a 1 am, since you sleep

Pema Pera: so 7 am obviously

 

--BELL--

 

Eos Amaterasu: so 7 am SLT, that would work for me next week or week after (although which day?)

Pema Pera: 7 am will be 11 pm, not ideal either, but just somewhat better than 5 am

Pema Pera: how about sending an email to the PaB group, asking who is interested, and give thema few choices? We can give both 7 am and 1 pm (I can get up early as an exception). Next week I'll be in Beijing . . . How about the week after?

Pema Pera: let's say Thursday or Friday,

Pema Pera: so how about giving four choices:

Pema Pera: 7 am and 1 pm

Pema Pera: and September 9 and 10

Pema Pera: would all four work for you?

Eos Amaterasu: Yes, at the moment looks good, so I'll plan around that

Pema Pera: Okay: how about you sending an email to the group, after you post this log: it will help giving people a chance to read the log for today, to get an idea

 

Eos Amaterasu: And the theme ....

Pema Pera: hmmm

Eos Amaterasu: wasn't there once a session around computer languages?

Eos Amaterasu: (I wasn't there)

Pema Pera: one about debugging yes

Pema Pera: about Gerry Sussman's idea in fact!

Pema Pera: Quite a while ago

Pema Pera: perhaps triggered by ThreeDee, also a programmer, and Adelene, same?

Pema Pera: we could call it "closures and continuations" but that's still a bit cryptic

Eos Amaterasu: there's drawing on the programming domain for metaphors and language (such a that of closure)

Eos Amaterasu: how sofware can think?

Eos Amaterasu: more importantly, how software can care?

Pema Pera: yes

Eos Amaterasu: or, specific concepts such as closure

Pema Pera: software = mathematics + time

Pema Pera: --> life

Eos Amaterasu: so maybe we can present that as the general context within which to investigate being

Eos Amaterasu: & fortune

Pema Pera: :-)

Eos Amaterasu: there's strange ways in which some languages, such as Clojure, deal with time

Eos Amaterasu: Anway, I'll draft a letter

Pema Pera: yes!

Pema Pera: hard to put all that in a short title . . .

Pema Pera: perhaps you can come up with something

Eos Amaterasu: okay, I'll give it a try tomorrow

Pema Pera: to continue the "coming from" metaphor :-)

Pema Pera: okay, thanks a lot, Eos

Eos Amaterasu: now I should go to bed - good night!

Pema Pera: A good American session: "for fun and profit"

Pema Pera: sleep well