2010.08.21 19:00 - Befriending Time

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
Paradise Tennant: hiya pema .. how are you :)
Pema Pera: fine, happy, how about you?
Paradise Tennant: fine happy a bit tired and still cannot see any cushions yet :)
Paradise Tennant: how is life in japan :)
Pema Pera: all good things will come for those who wait . . .
Pema Pera: (re: cushions)
Pema Pera: hot
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pema Pera: in both Tokyo and Kyoto the maximum temeratures are often 36 or 37 degrees, just about body temperature, 100 F
Pema Pera: and worse, it doesn't get much cooler at night either
Paradise Tennant: yowser
Pema Pera: and very humid too
Pema Pera: but otherwise I'm happy to be here -- just staying indoors during the day mostly
Paradise Tennant: nods understandably so :)
Pema Pera: and soon things will get better
Pema Pera: September through November are the best time of year here, I feel
Pema Pera: I love the fall, anywhere, but especially in Japan
Pema Pera: any cushions yet, paradise?
Paradise Tennant: been enjoying your writing :) sort of like one of the old fashion novels that you come in episodes .. :) yes the fall is lovely .. cooler here at night already

Nice comparison, to episodic novel writing!

Paradise Tennant: nope
Pema Pera: ah yes, that occurred to me too, and thanks :-)
Paradise Tennant: been taking me 10 15 minutes to rez not sure why
Pema Pera: neither the writer nor the reader has any idea how the novel will continue to meander, when serialized in newspapers or magazines
Pema Pera: same in my case :)
Pema Pera: hi Adoro!
adoro Rhapsody: hi pema
Pema Pera: good to see you again
Paradise Tennant: yes makes it more interesting .. spontaneous :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya adoro ;)
adoro Rhapsody: pleasure is mine
adoro Rhapsody: hi paradice
Pema Pera: it must be late for you in Holland, adoro!
adoro Rhapsody: no early , pema
Pema Pera: :-)
adoro Rhapsody: its 4.14 am here
adoro Rhapsody: and with u ?
Pema Pera: 11:14 am
Pema Pera: in Tokyo
adoro Rhapsody: wow
Pema Pera: 10:14 pm for Paradise, I guess
--BELL--
Pema Pera: we're really spanning the globe
adoro Rhapsody: so what happens with u there will happen over 7 hours in holland ?
adoro Rhapsody: u r in land of the rising sun in real
Pema Pera: only things like "clocks chiming twelve o'clock" I guess :-)
Pema Pera: (what will happen 7 hours later)
Pema Pera: (sorry, when the fountain gets misty, we pause for 90 seconds)
adoro Rhapsody: drinking coffe or tea
Pema Pera: both are good here :)
adoro Rhapsody: ok sorry
Pema Pera: and yes, the sun really rises here
adoro Rhapsody: where is here ?
Pema Pera: Tokyo
adoro Rhapsody: du u pause there ?
Pema Pera: visiting for my work
adoro Rhapsody: working on sunday ?
Pema Pera: I'm staying here a few months
adoro Rhapsody: interesting
Pema Pera: and my work is in my own time, no 9-5 or anything like that
Pema Pera: it's my hobby after all :)
Pema Pera: astrophysics
adoro Rhapsody: do they have ecolution trhere too ?
Pema Pera: ?
Paradise Tennant: smiles really makes for a rich life when you love what you do :)
adoro Rhapsody: have u seen wubbo ockels ecolution on sail 2010 in amsterdam ?
Pema Pera: no?
adoro Rhapsody: yesterday ?
Pema Pera: what is it?
adoro Rhapsody: well look in youtube
Pema Pera: (I live in New York, dont' come often to Holland)
adoro Rhapsody: search for: ecoluton Groningen
Pema Pera: yes sir
adoro Rhapsody: in yourube
adoro Rhapsody: youtube
adoro Rhapsody: and u will see
adoro Rhapsody: i hope u can understand it because its in dutch
Pema Pera: Ecolution: Premiere European Hemp Clothing . . . .

That did seem like a fun web site, http://www.ecolution.com/, but probably not what was meant...

Pema Pera: interesting
adoro Rhapsody: no ecolution groningen
adoro Rhapsody: or ockels ecolution
Pema Pera: oh, a sailing ship?
adoro Rhapsody: his new sailing ship
adoro Rhapsody: co2 neutral
adoro Rhapsody: high tech
Pema Pera: hi Kochira
Pema Pera: こちら？
Pema Pera: come join us if you like!
Pema Pera: I guess not :-)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: was wondering if you would like to talk a bit about your latest chapter :)
Pema Pera: oh, I'd be happy too
Paradise Tennant: pema .. would that be ok ? adoro ?
adoro Rhapsody: i wonder if its good for my health to stay
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: in pab
Pema Pera: aything special that you were drawn to, or had questions about?
Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Chapter_3:_Magic%2C_a_Reality_Check
Paradise Tennant: well the enigma of time of course :)
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Pema Pera: yes, an enigma it is
Pema Pera: and yet everything is given by/in time
Pema Pera: perhaps even as time
Pema Pera: and we know so little about it . . . .
adoro Rhapsody: even second life time
Pema Pera: oh sure
adoro Rhapsody: but its a tool of management
Pema Pera: in SL space is virtual, but time is the same old time as in RL, by and large -- we meet "in real time" as they say!
Pema Pera: I've often wondered about whether we can create a virtual world in which time is also virtual . . . .

I've been playing with the thought that it could make very interesting science fiction stories, if we could find a way to give a specific meaning to virtual time.

adoro Rhapsody: who started with central europe time in greenwich ?
adoro Rhapsody: and why ?
Pema Pera: one question is: sometimes we feel we control time, sometimes we feel time controls us, . . . are both true, or one, or none??
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: thats TAO
Pema Pera: how do you feel, Paradise?
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: hmm
adoro Rhapsody: whats so funnny ?
Paradise Tennant: not sure it exists really
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: its an beleive ?
adoro Rhapsody: believe ?
adoro Rhapsody: no science ?
Pema Pera: during the PaB retreat we worked with both notions: we controlling time and time controlling us
Pema Pera: and we tried to put each one on its head so to speak, trying to find alternatives

A little further on I said more about each one.

Paradise Tennant: sometimes .. there are moments where .. there is a glimmer of .. a difference to what we view as time
Pema Pera: can you say more about that, Paradise?
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hmm felt it more when I was a kid .. but .. just a sense .. that one moment was no different from the next really .. there was a kind of core that did not change
adoro Rhapsody: 5 minutes in waiting room by dentist is another experience than 5 minutes on birthdayparty !
Pema Pera: timeless time perhaps . . .
adoro Rhapsody: sure
adoro Rhapsody: time flies when u having fun
adoro Rhapsody: 90 second s?
adoro Rhapsody: ?
adoro Rhapsody: 90 secondslife ?

Here is the first one:

Pema Pera: during the retreat we experimented with first us doing an exploration, and then later letting Time do the exploration for us -- as a we to put the "us controlling time" on its head
adoro Rhapsody: wow
adoro Rhapsody: interesting
adoro Rhapsody: and what came out ?
Pema Pera: (we pause for 90 seconds here, adoro, once every 15 minutes: pond gest misty, bells ring, green lines in chat log)
adoro Rhapsody: its a nice ritual
adoro Rhapsody: that controls us ?
adoro Rhapsody: here in pab ?

And here is the second one:

Pema Pera: then we also put "time controlling us" on its head, in a different way: instead we did "play as Being" and while identifying ourselves with Being we could then let Time, as an aspect of Being, Play
Pema Pera: both ways of turning things around were very interesting, and deeply inspiring
adoro Rhapsody: sure
Pema Pera: hard to summarize the effects here in a few words
adoro Rhapsody: they still are
Pema Pera: does that give some idea or sense, Paradise?
Pema Pera: those two motions?
adoro Rhapsody: emotions ?
adoro Rhapsody: or notions ?
Pema Pera: what you described may be close to the first reversal, letting Time do its thing
Paradise Tennant: yes
adoro Rhapsody: sorry for interupting
Paradise Tennant: I bought a wind up clock today .one that has a very nice chime to it .. you wind it up once a month :)
Pema Pera: (motions like in reversing the usual attitudes, adoro)
Pema Pera: wow, a month worth of chimes with one gesture!
adoro Rhapsody: so u dont have a time leg Pema ?
adoro Rhapsody: lag
Paradise Tennant: thought it would be an interest ritual .. both the winding and the chiming because it is a signal for me to drop and pause
Paradise Tennant: smiles
adoro Rhapsody: ok
Pema Pera: how often does it chime?
Paradise Tennant: on the hour and half hour
adoro Rhapsody: pause is good for health
adoro Rhapsody: but smoking pause is when u may smoke, the rest of time u may not smoke
adoro Rhapsody: u better not smoke at all

I thought about an analogy, with time as a door.

Pema Pera: coming back to time: it would be really curious if we watched a room where there would be a secret door, and each moment all kind of things would appear from through that door -- we would be curious what would be behind the door
Pema Pera: but time behaves just like that
Pema Pera: each moment everything appears from out of the door of time
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pema Pera: and yet we're used to it
Paradise Tennant: we are
Pema Pera: don't ask many questions
Paradise Tennant: very accepting
Pema Pera: don't ask don't tell :-)
adoro Rhapsody: i agree
Pema Pera: so how to ask Time?
Pema Pera: how to get the conversation started?
adoro Rhapsody: hear, see and be silent
Pema Pera: that may be a good start, adoro :)
adoro Rhapsody: we dont have to kill u because u dont know too much
Paradise Tennant: hmmm what is the first question pema :)
Pema Pera: it can take many forms
Pema Pera: we can ask Time to show its face -- that's pretty direct
Pema Pera: or for starters we can ask how It lets appearance appear -- to give us a hint :-)
Pema Pera: does that make some sense, to try?
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: what if there is no time :) .. per se ..only a pattern that unfolds and the order of the pattern or the space of the pattern is what we call time but it is no distinct really sometimes that's how I think i of it
Pema Pera: hi Hokon!
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
adoro Rhapsody: hi hokon
Pema Pera: that's quite possible, Paradise
Hokon Cazalet: lol play as being, i was just pondering that concept

Hokon's remark peaked my curiosity.

adoro Rhapsody: there was no time in paradise
Paradise Tennant: hiya hokon :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Pema Pera: what comes to mind, Hokon, when pondering play as Being?
Hokon Cazalet: oh i was just thinking about how play (not to interrupt you guys' topic) would be a way to access Being
Pema Pera: yes, that's the idea, roughly :-)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe, i hadnt gotten far yet
Paradise Tennant: a wonderful approach .. :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Pema Pera: and yes, Paradise, seeing time as a patterning movement is an interesting angle
Pema Pera: Being patterning its patterns, without substantiality somehow "behind" what appears
Pema Pera: Hokon, one thing we do sometimes during short breaks, in RL and in SL, is to try to drop what we have in order to see what we are
adoro Rhapsody: is that the purpose of the 90 seconds break ?
Pema Pera: not so much a purpose, as more one way to get into the spirit of the approach
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: i see
Pema Pera: you like Kant, Hokon?
Pema Pera: (just saw your profile :-)
Pema Pera: and phenomenology -- like Husserl?
Pema Pera: oops, no more Hokon -- crashed perhaps?
adoro Rhapsody: just flew away
Pema Pera: dropped everything :-)
adoro Rhapsody: the art of letting go
Pema Pera: -)
Paradise Tennant: yes it is an art L(
Paradise Tennant: ':)
adoro Rhapsody: no science
adoro Rhapsody: i like u both in this discussion technique
Pema Pera: coming back to time, Paradise, do you see some options for trying to become friends with time? Or does that sound too . . . abstract . . . strange . . . unrealistic . . . ?
adoro Rhapsody: lets innovate our time concept
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pema Pera: when walking in nature, we can befriend trees and clouds and brooks . . . why not time?
Pema Pera: wb Hokon
adoro Rhapsody: because time is not nature made but man made
Hokon Cazalet: ty
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Paradise Tennant: smiles wv hokon :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Paradise Tennant: wb
adoro Rhapsody: Hey!

Paradise asked some difficult questions :-)

Paradise Tennant: how does being friends with time work pema
Pema Pera: oh, you just offer friendship, or whatever you do when walking in nature, and befriending trees or clouds
Pema Pera: and you let yourself be seen
Paradise Tennant: listens can you say more
adoro Rhapsody: to be seen ?
Pema Pera: it has a nice phenomenology component -- I see in Hokon's profile an interest in phenomenology :-)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
adoro Rhapsody: the phenomon of time ?
Pema Pera: not so easy to describe in a few words . . . but if any of you try, and describe what you find, it would be much easier to take it from there
Pema Pera: we have to recognize in each other's words what we are hinting at
Pema Pera: we can't pin it down
Pema Pera: but we can resonate
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: like music
Pema Pera: shall we try during the next 90 seconds pause?
Pema Pera: befriending time?
adoro Rhapsody: ok
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: to resonate with it :)
adoro Rhapsody: time has become my friend
adoro Rhapsody: no hurrie anymore
Paradise Tennant: smiles a great friend to have :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
adoro Rhapsody: pab and internet are timeless
adoro Rhapsody: but still my friend

Paradise switched from SL to RL and from indoors to out:

Paradise Tennant: well speaking of time I think I will scoot getting late here .. the dog is giving me a pointed stare .. with an intent to spend some time to outside ..
Pema Pera: enjoy the walk, Paradise!
Hokon Cazalet: bye paradise =)
adoro Rhapsody: so he is your boss ?
adoro Rhapsody: and friend ?
adoro Rhapsody: its dog apuse
adoro Rhapsody: pause
Paradise Tennant: lol indeed ...
Paradise Tennant: thank you all ...namaste :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
adoro Rhapsody: namaste
Pema Pera: namaste, Paradise :)
adoro Rhapsody: have a good time
adoro Rhapsody: timeless time in paradise
adoro Rhapsody: no jetlag annymore
Pema Pera: :)
adoro Rhapsody: oh no
adoro Rhapsody: thats my biorytm
adoro Rhapsody: no time no ritm ?
adoro Rhapsody: no music ?
Hokon Cazalet: yeah, that could be true
adoro Rhapsody: its the tone that makes the music not the rytm ?
Hokon Cazalet: id say both does
adoro Rhapsody: ok and and no ar ar
adoro Rhapsody: or or
Hokon Cazalet: well tone and rythym together, the motion of harmonies changing forming a melody
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: just like form and contents?
Hokon Cazalet: sorta
adoro Rhapsody: thnx
Hokon Cazalet: =)
adoro Rhapsody: u r wise lady
adoro Rhapsody: no olympic records ?when no time ?
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
adoro Rhapsody: so high definition time measureing may be our friend
adoro Rhapsody: hundres micro seconds life ?
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Pema Pera: I rarely measure my friends, adoro
adoro Rhapsody: ok letting go time is friendly
Hokon Cazalet: i would say time has a primal nature that is not measurable
adoro Rhapsody: but champions wanna get measured
adoro Rhapsody: because of theyr record

A nice surprise to see Aphrodite joining us.  I thought she was still traveling.

Pema Pera: Hi there Aphrodite!
Hokon Cazalet: hi venus =)
adoro Rhapsody: hi aph
Pema Pera: and so nice to hear that you joined us as a guardian!
Pema Pera: black is fine!
Hokon Cazalet: black is the color of mystery =)
Pema Pera: noon right now
adoro Rhapsody: black is no colour
Hokon Cazalet: black is a color and isnt
Pema Pera: oh, that's fine!
Pema Pera: good to see you again
adoro Rhapsody: ok
adoro Rhapsody: thats TAO
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pema Pera: and nice to see all the many welcomes that you got by email -- did you get a chance to read them already?
adoro Rhapsody: no time ?
adoro Rhapsody: to read the manuals ?
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. It was lovely
Aphrodite Macbain: to get the emails
Pema Pera: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: cu later
Pema Pera: bye Aphro!
Hokon Cazalet: byes
adoro Rhapsody: bye
adoro Rhapsody: what u see is not what u get
Pema Pera: I'll have to get going too
Pema Pera: nice talking with y'all !
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hokon Cazalet waves
adoro Rhapsody: have a good time in tokio !
Hokon Cazalet: im gonna get going also
Pema Pera: bye everybody
adoro Rhapsody: bye
--BELL--
adoro Rhapsody: i wanna bring in 2 urls for the record :
adoro Rhapsody: see: http://enovatechina.com
adoro Rhapsody: and especialy for our dutch participants: http://www.idealize.nl
adoro Rhapsody: thanks forredording and publishing.
adoro Rhapsody: for recording