2010.08.19 07:00 - We are like onions

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

We started with just eight cushions around the lotus with no pool.

Storm Nordwind: Good morning Bruce
Storm Nordwind: Good evening Pema!
Pema Pera: hi Storm and Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Storm.
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Pema.
Pema Pera: small circle today -- or small square I guess :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
Pema Pera: we just squared the circle!
Storm Nordwind: Occam's Razor applies
Pema Pera: hi Bert!
Bruce Mowbray: Everyone wins and prizes for all.
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Bert.
Storm Nordwind: Hi Bert
Pema Pera: :-)

Bert arrives and procedes to emit hearts.

Bertram Jacobus: hello every body ! :-)
Bruce Mowbray thinks Bert might be in love today.
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Pema Pera: :)
Storm Nordwind: Only today? :)
Pema Pera: eternal romantic . . .
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - got it as a gift from fael and understand it as a sign for the so called "agape" (!) ... :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Well, this is the only day, so far, that I'n seen Bert emitting hearts.
Bruce Mowbray: ooopsss. No more hearts!
Bruce Mowbray: There they are again.
Bertram Jacobus: yes ! they´re still there (!?) ... ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: not so intense, quite subtile ... love that (sic!) :o)
Pema Pera: quite a hearty bubble bath . . .

A few more arrivals plus some keyboard frivolity.

Pema Pera: hi Selene
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi everyone
Bertram Jacobus: hello selene and yaku :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Selene.
Pema Pera: and hi Yaku and Eliza!
Storm Nordwind: Hi there Selene, Yaku!
Bertram Jacobus: and eliza ! :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Eliza.
Storm Nordwind: And Eliza!
Selene Northman: good day, Bruce, Yaku and Bertram :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good daym Yaku.
Bruce Mowbray: day.
Bertram Jacobus: god damn yaku ? did you want to write that bruce ? *giggle* ... :o)
Selene Northman: Hello Eliza :)
Yakuzza Lethecus dies from laughing....
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :), Selene
Bertram Jacobus: lol
Pema Pera enjoying Bruce's Australian accent
Bertram Jacobus: **********Applause!!**********
Bertram Jacobus: **********Applause!!**********
Agatha Macbeth: Strewth
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey aga :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Pema Pera: hi Agatha!
Bertram Jacobus: hey agatha ! :-)
Bruce Mowbray: I blame all typos on my keyboard.
Agatha Macbeth: Hi evrerybody :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi evrerybody :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: Ooh little circle
Storm Nordwind: gud on yer Bruce
Bertram Jacobus: but sometimes they can cause fun bruce ! :-)
Selene Northman: Hi Agatha and Storm :)
Bruce Mowbray: especially fun when the KB is loaded with clownish cereal droppings.
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, you too?
Bruce Mowbray: drippings.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: Or droppings...
Storm Nordwind winces
Agatha Macbeth: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
Bruce Mowbray: One experiences entirely different typos is Lucky Charms have been dripped - as opposed to oatmeal.
Bruce Mowbray: if.
Agatha Macbeth: Do they still make Lucky Charms?
Eliza Madrigal imagines the sound of granola in keyboard...
Bruce Mowbray: O hope not.
Bruce Mowbray: I.
Agatha Macbeth: I remember em about 40 years ago
Storm Nordwind can only guess those particular lucky charms are not made of silver
Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully not Stormy ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think they even qualify as food, Storm
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Agatha Macbeth: Leprechauns like them
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: somewhere.... over the rainbow...
Storm Nordwind: Leprechauns - ah yes... I saw an American commentator referring to their being at St. Andrews >.<

Frivolity having been given due recognition, we embark on a deeper topic: contemplation.

Bruce Mowbray: I feel a needto say something about "contemplation" - mostly in response to a log recently...
Eliza Madrigal leans in to listen @ bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Please do Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Yaku stated that he was not sure what "contemplation" meant. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and since I am one who has used the term frequently in PaB,
Bruce Mowbray: I want to echo his thought.
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: I suspect that there are as many "definitions" of the term as there are persons who "do" it.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, yes it´s an ongoing issue of ,,what´s the right way to think" if that even exists
Bertram Jacobus: but there are also definitions in dictionaries for it (!?) ... ethymology also ...
Storm Nordwind tends to use the word "contemplation" when thinking *about* something - as opposed to meditating on it
Agatha Macbeth nods
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bruce Mowbray: I'm just the opposite, Storm.
Pema Pera: the word "contemplation" is slightly less overused than "meditation" it seems :)
Bruce Mowbray: To me, contemplation is being in a receptive, passive mode and letting myself be "held" rather than "holding" the thought.
Pema Pera: and "contemplatives" sounds somewhat better than "meditators" (to me :-)
Storm Nordwind: I suspect that's just fashion Pema!
Bertram Jacobus: i made the experience, that not only few people even don´t know the word
Pema Pera: may well be, Storm
Yakuzza Lethecus: no it´s a bit tricky from the perspective that i struggle between contemplating and having a chit chat in sessions
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Yaku, and I appreciate your honesty about that.
Yakuzza Lethecus: so how to gain a feeling for contemplation, it´s not about dictionary definitions for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: so how to gain a feeling for contemplation, it´s not about dictionary definitions for me
Agatha Macbeth: To me, contemplation is a silent things anyhow
Bruce Mowbray: precisely so,: not about definitions but about your own exp[erience with it.
Pema Pera: ah, okay
Bertram Jacobus: individual over community ?
Bruce Mowbray: or, being "held" and "thought" BY community?
Pema Pera: what do you feel is the main difference between contemplation here in a PaB session and chit-chat, Yaku?
Selene Northman: well community over individual
Bertram Jacobus: i would say and think and feel so too selene ...

While we continue our discussions about contemplation, Qt arrives and eight cushions are no longer enough. I add the outer 24 cushions and everyone except Yaku quickly moves out a little. Consequently he gets a little shock.

Bertram Jacobus: hello qt :-)
Pema Pera: hi Qt
Qt Core: Hi all
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Qt.
Selene Northman: ty, Bertram, I am believing a strong community sense
Qt Core: an intimate setting ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Mr Steampunk :))
Selene Northman: Hello, Qt :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt
Qt Core: Hi Agata ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: ty selene, me too - it always seems to help - at least for not enlightened beings, if other share the own views ... at least for group beings as humans normally are ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :)
Agatha Macbeth: Squaring the circle...
Pema Pera: unsquaring the circle . . .
Agatha Macbeth: That too Pem :p
Storm Nordwind grins mischievously and causes the pool to appear
Agatha Macbeth: Yaku now has a wet bum
Bertram Jacobus giggles ... :o)
Selene Northman: lol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Luci
Qt Core: Hi Lucinda
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Lucinda.
Bertram Jacobus: hello lucinda
Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
Agatha Macbeth: Whoa, pink lady
Storm Nordwind smiles at Lucinda
Lucinda Lavender: Hello All:)
Agatha Macbeth: How are you Luci?
Selene Northman: Greetings Lucinda
Lucinda Lavender: I am ok..and well
Agatha Macbeth: Good, glad to hear it....:)
Lucinda Lavender: Yaku is holding an interesting position...

Bruce continues and starts to mention projections.

Bruce Mowbray: We've been chatting a bit about "contemplation" and our "definitions" of that.
Agatha Macbeth: At least he's on dry land now
Bruce Mowbray: I think I might have erred in seeing INCEPTION in the middle of the week in which I am to "come out of hiding and let myself be seen."
Bertram Jacobus: i see yaku totally normal ...
Pema Pera: hahaha, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Those subconscious "projections" can create much havoc.
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Me too Bert
Bruce Mowbray: especially for one who THOUGHT he was a "contemplative."
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray chooses to ignore his KB's play.
Bertram Jacobus: (you) agatha ... react(s) ... reacted ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: kb ?
Bertram Jacobus: what is this KB, plz ?
Bruce Mowbray: keyboard.
Bertram Jacobus: ah
Bertram Jacobus: ty
Bruce Mowbray blames his typos on his KB.
Agatha Macbeth: The dreaded communicative implement Berti :p
Lucinda Lavender: thinking about how in working with children there is an age that projections seem more apparent
Bertram Jacobus: sounds complicated agatha (!) ... :-)
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Bruce Mowbray: please say more, Luci.
Agatha Macbeth: How so Luci?
Agatha Macbeth: Here comes Bliss
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, to Bliss and her fish!
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Blissful :)
Agatha Macbeth: Nice wings :)
Lucinda Lavender: the children start to dress up I was thinking
Lucinda Lavender: to play at being seen
Blissful Badger: Hello my friends
Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
Bertram Jacobus: hy blissful :-)
Qt Core: Hi Bliss
Eliza Madrigal nods at Lucinda and remembers a house full of cheetahs and princesses...
Blissful Badger: Hi :-)
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Bissful Badger
Pema Pera: hi Blissful!
Agatha Macbeth likes 'play as being seen' :)
Eliza Madrigal: !
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bliss
Bertram Jacobus: oops - there is a jellyfish in the air storm (?) ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: It rather matches Selene's profile I'm noticing...
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we need to see things as children do...
Blissful Badger: sorry I brought my little ocean with me
Eliza Madrigal: SL as a Shakespearean play

Bruce patiently persists with projections.

Bruce Mowbray: So, Luci and Eliza, you are saying that the children were projecting plarts of themselves into their imaginary selves -- and wanting to be seen as those projections?
Lucinda Lavender: Just yesterday in RL I had my hair cut like it appears here...:)
Bertram Jacobus: oh sry i thoght ... it showed, edited ... storms name (!?) ... hm - strange ...
Lucinda Lavender: well I was wondering about it....it shows an intention to try on selves
Bruce Mowbray: seems so, yes.
Agatha Macbeth nods and smiles
Bruce Mowbray muses: Like trying on AV's in SL?
Eliza Madrigal: very much so Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Exactly Bruce
Blissful Badger: I keep trying to try on a new self but my old one keeps coming back
Eliza Madrigal: except that somewhere between childhood and adulthood we stop wearing our costumes outwardly
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Bliss
Storm Nordwind: We do Eliza? :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Well some do
Agatha Macbeth: Some do, some don't
Blissful Badger: mayne a couple of buttons remain
Blissful Badger: maybe
Agatha Macbeth: What if we press them?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe its the range of costumes we allow ourselves that should be looked at :)
Blissful Badger: haha great idea
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps in the SL "dream" the subconscious "projections" (as in INCEPTION) are still operating.
Blissful Badger: you got to see INCEPTION?
Agatha Macbeth thinks Bruce may have seen INCEPTION
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Eliza, it might be easy to misinterpret lack of allowing with sheer laziness!
Bruce Mowbray: The projects are the source of MOST of the havoc in the movie -- and how about here? or in RL?
Eliza Madrigal: sign of a good film, when those who've seen it come away using it as a tool to measure/evaluate/question
Bruce Mowbray: That's what has me bothered this week -- about "being seen."
Pema Pera: perhaps we ourselves are our own projections?
Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Pema.
Lucinda Lavender: nodding
Eliza Madrigal considers mere and sheer laziness..
Blissful Badger: our own double?
Agatha Macbeth: A magic lantern show
Agatha Macbeth: A magic lantern show
Eliza Madrigal: bothered as in gotten under your skin, Bruce?
Blissful Badger: or inspired?
Bruce Mowbray: "bothered" as in: Am I really allowing MYSELF to be seen . . . or merely my projections?
Eliza Madrigal: or is it the same thing?!?
Eliza Madrigal: @.@
Pema Pera: perhaps anything else as "IS" (or Being) is a projection?
Blissful Badger: How would you know if you were
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray wonders about what he's seeing of himself -- perhaps just a lantern show.
Qt Core: and what we project ? what we are what we'd like to be, what others want us to be... just to not be bothered ?

Lucinda shares a childhood experience.

Lucinda Lavender: I remember playing as if I were characters...and then a relaization that sounds bizzare but at about age 13 thinking ai was really a rock...in some kind of more complicated form..sort of the opposite of a character, I guess.
Blissful Badger: just be"ourselves"? But what ifwe don't like ourselves and want to change?
Agatha Macbeth: It comes back to the question who am *I*
Pema Pera: we think that WE project, as if we knew what WE are -- but it seems more likely that what we think we are is already the result of many layers of projection . . .
Agatha Macbeth: Yes Pem, exactly
Blissful Badger: yes, that makes a lot of sens
Pema Pera: that's beautiful, Lucinda!
Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Luci
Lucinda Lavender: it was stragely painful at the time...
Lucinda Lavender: strangely
Bertram Jacobus: "i" is something from which some recommend to solve it, to dissolve - that accumulation of relative aspects ...
Pema Pera: why painful, Luci?
Eliza Madrigal: ((( Lucinda))) lovely
Agatha Macbeth pokes Bert
Bertram Jacobus: *kieks* :-)

Finding a core self.

Lucinda Lavender: it felt like the ultimate removeal of projection I suppose
Lucinda Lavender: removal
Blissful Badger: huh?
Pema Pera: like being more exposed, Luci?
Lucinda Lavender: there was no hiding from being ones core self I guess
Pema Pera: was it purely painful, or was there also another sense mixed in?
Agatha Macbeth: I see what you mean Luci, yes
Pema Pera: you mentioned "strangely"
Lucinda Lavender: yes...no outfit more important
Lucinda Lavender: yes it was definately connected to meeting a very special person...much older than myself...who seemed espeially present
Bruce Mowbray supposes that one of the "uses" of 'contemplative awareness' is to reveal 'one's core self' to oneself.
Lucinda Lavender: just like I was seen!
Eliza Madrigal: !
Blissful Badger: we project personlities onto others but we just be ourselves to ourselves and others r
Lucinda Lavender: I knew then that that seemed so important!
Agatha Macbeth: 'Projection' is an ineresting word...
Pema Pera: could you stay with that sense, Luci, I mean, did you feel that it somehow got fermented into your life at that time, and over the years, if I may ask?
Qt Core: already time to go, bye all
Bertram Jacobus: bye qt have a nice day
Storm Nordwind waves
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Qt.
Agatha Macbeth: Ciao Qt, be well
Lucinda Lavender: not really sure... but there is the sense of contrast between the core without feeling seen and the core by it self
Blissful Badger: I don't think I have a core self. I have multiple changing selves some of which are more dominant
Bruce Mowbray nods in agreement to Bliss.
Agatha Macbeth: That sounds like me too Bliss :)
Pema Pera: yes, a core is not just one simple thing . . . many aspects of experiences of what feels like our core
Blissful Badger: They are all held to gther inside one bodyody
Blissful Badger: body
Bertram Jacobus: it´s said, that when the karmapa was asked once who he were he replied : nobody

Onions.

Blissful Badger: we are like onions, hollow
Agatha Macbeth: Many layers?
Agatha Macbeth: Many layers?
Blissful Badger: with many layers
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Blissful Badger: just what was going to say!!
Agatha Macbeth: You did! ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: and each layer telling a story about what was happening at the time of its inception.
Blissful Badger winks at Agatha
Blissful Badger: yes - nice
Agatha Macbeth winks back
Blissful Badger: perhaps like a tree trunk
Pema Pera: and like with onions, we sometimes cry when we expose more layers . . .
Agatha Macbeth: Growth rings
Storm Nordwind is probably a caramelized onion
Agatha Macbeth: Ha yes Pem
Blissful Badger: yes, each one diferent
Lucinda Lavender: yes pema
Pema Pera: and then we laugh at our crying :-)
Lucinda Lavender: ack! an new layer!
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Pema Pera: (^_^)
Blissful Badger laughs in delight at the turn of conversation
Agatha Macbeth: That happens lot here...
Storm Nordwind: Burn off the layers. It makes them sweeter :)
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth gets out hr blowtorch
Blissful Badger: I wonder whethe we ca create those layers ourselves
Blissful Badger: we can
Bruce Mowbray wonders if that was an onion ring...

Many partings.

Agatha Macbeth: What time is KISS Liz, do you know?
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks to everyone, rich session _/!\_ Bye for now
Storm Nordwind waves
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Blissful Badger: rather than havin them imposed upon us from outside experience
Blissful Badger: noon I think
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, ty :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bye, evryone for now
Blissful Badger: Bye!
Bertram Jacobus: bye to all leaving and having left avatars ! ... :-)
Blissful Badger: cheers
Storm Nordwind: KISS is in one hour, at 9:00
Pema Pera: I'll have to get going too -- past midnight I just realize
Bruce Mowbray: bye Pema, and thanks.
Bertram Jacobus: so - bye pema :-)
Blissful Badger: Where are you Pema?
Pema Pera: thanks for the great conversations!
Pema Pera: in Japan, Bliss
Lucinda Lavender: god time all...where ever you are...
Lucinda Lavender: good
Bertram Jacobus: bye lucinda ! :-)
Pema Pera: and whenever you are
Blissful Badger: Ohh far away across the ocean from me
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye luci
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Luci -- and thanks for your offerings here today.
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Bertram Jacobus: god time may be interesting as well ... considering ... :-)
Blissful Badger: bye luci andpema
Pema Pera: where are you, Bliss?
Blissful Badger: Vancouver
Lucinda Lavender: yes thank you all for this time
Pema Pera standing on his toes, waving to Bliss over the water
Pema Pera: bfn
Lucinda Lavender: time to go play with the projections
Pema Pera: haha, yeah
Blissful Badger waves back with a smile
Yakuzza Lethecus: don´t let them catch you
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Storm Nordwind wonders whether Pema's waving will cause a storm of butterflies somewhere...
Bertram Jacobus: we never know ?
Blissful Badger: very likely. There's a storm of fish swimming around me
Yakuzza Lethecus: when the worldbuilder is good the projections won´t find you as easily
Blissful Badger: they will get buffetted
Yakuzza Lethecus looks at storm :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
Bruce Mowbray: Probably time for me to go for a hike with the dog.
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care bruce :)
Bertram Jacobus: nice hike bruce !
Blissful Badger: Pat to bear fro me
Bruce Mowbray: May all enjoy their days.
Storm Nordwind waves
Storm Nordwind: or daze
Blissful Badger: fuzzy days ahead

BB's parting question about food.

Blissful Badger: Yaku, I've been wondering.what is black sauce
Blissful Badger: you ate it on Tuesday with your saussages
Blissful Badger: sausages
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have no clue how to say that in english
Yakuzza Lethecus: not saussage
Storm Nordwind: What is it made from?
Yakuzza Lethecus: with schweinebraten :)
Blissful Badger: yes!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hog roast
Blissful Badger: you said you had black sauce ith them and I wondered what that meant
Blissful Badger: black beans?
Yakuzza Lethecus: a dark sauce made with rest of the roast from the oven
Yakuzza Lethecus: no
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, my vocabulary isn´t well concerning food :D
Blissful Badger: oh!! I call that brown gravy.
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravy
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Blissful Badger: thanks! I was a little concerned
Blissful Badger: these are the idiotic things that stick in my mind
Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave - ty very much for the companionship - may all beings be happy please (!) ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: i hope i keep gravy in mind :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care bert
Storm Nordwind: Bye Bert
Blissful Badger: bye bert!
Bertram Jacobus: ty again ! ...
Blissful Badger: mashed potatoes and gravy - comfort food
Blissful Badger: all this food talk makes me ready for breakfast/
Blissful Badger: I'll be bck at 9AM - here? or at KIRA?
Yakuzza Lethecus: kira

Yaku reminisces about a very successful regular Kira event from last year - ReLaM
Relocatable Laboratories in the Metaverse - whose speaker list read as a Who's Who of Second Life.

Yakuzza Lethecus: will ReLaM come back up again storm ?
Blissful Badger: Thanks Bye Storm, Yaku
Storm Nordwind: Bye BB :) I doubt it Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: guten hunger bb
Blissful Badger: Bon appetit?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes :)
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm sad, there was a time when mica and relam were habitual sessions
Storm Nordwind: Yes. But it takes a huge amount of work organizing them weekly. Of course if you're volunteering... ;))
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, we had that topic concerning the science at play
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i think prospero was a leading figure in all of em
Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe not directly science at play but at least he was there too
Yakuzza Lethecus: i hope mica comes back
Storm Nordwind: S@P was his original idea
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s has a lot in common with the relam
Storm Nordwind: ReLaM was very popular. That's why I built the Dome
Yakuzza Lethecus: that was the first time that i heard that places are constructed on sim borders :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: to double the possible participants
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... now you're giving me an idea Yaku :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: go ahead :)
Storm Nordwind: I could tell - but then I'd have to... no ... no one remembers those 20 year old quotes ;)
Storm Nordwind: Let's just say... "we'll see" ;)
Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me... time to go!
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, take care