2009.12.01 13:00 - Ox-Herding

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

       Yakuzza Lethecus: so, now the wave of visitors should start :)
        Mickorod Renard: maybe,,although I have found this particular session has become quieter
        Yakuzza Lethecus: stims session yesterday was really full
        Yakuzza Lethecus: 17 ppl
        Mickorod Renard: was it?
        Mickorod Renard: wow
        Mickorod Renard: I must read the logs more often
        Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t find the time for reading the chatlogs
        Mickorod Renard: I do not find the time to come on as much as I did before
        Yakuzza Lethecus: and i still should read more in general
        Yakuzza Lethecus: i even tried to convert eos book into an audio book with mixed success :)
        Mickorod Renard: wow
        Mickorod Renard: that would have been very clever
        Mickorod Renard: so did you try and do the voice over yourself Yaku?
        Yakuzza Lethecus: no no, text to speech software
        Mickorod Renard: ohh,,amazing
        Mickorod Renard: I didnt know it existed
        Yakuzza Lethecus: such software exists from the beginning of my computer experience with my amiga and workbench :)
        Mickorod Renard: he he
        Yakuzza Lethecus: but the quality was always below all usefullness
        Zon Quar: the pronunciation is quite difficult to crasp though
        Yakuzza Lethecus: until the last couple of years
        Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s still scary and buddist names pronounced by the engines are really funny
        Mickorod Renard: yes, I know it had been used ,,like for eg with ste[hen hawkins etc
       Zon Quar: lots of audio books on inet too
        Mickorod Renard: yes, I must get into some audio books
        Zon Quar: i usually read those when running or walking
        Mickorod Renard: since I have changed all my lamp bulbs for energy efficient ones I find it hard to read the words now
        Qt Core: if it wasn't a conscious choice going green should not inpact (so) much your habits, mick
        Mickorod Renard: I have just started reading a silly boys type of book,,just to give my brain a bit of a rest
        Qt Core: as in ok green bulbs but same light power
        Yakuzza Lethecus: hello aubergine
        Wol Euler: sounds interesting, mick. what is it?
        Zon Quar: what is silly boys type of book..lol
        Mickorod Renard: yehh,,I will go blind in the name of environmental friendliness
        Mickorod Renard: are you familiar with what we do here Aubergine?
        Aubergine Mint: yes, sort of
        Wol Euler: shes been to a few sessions alredy, mick :)
        Qt Core: sometimes i ask that myself, mick ;-)
        Mickorod Renard: ok, I can give you a notecard
        Aubergine Mint: I have one
        Mickorod Renard: yes? ok thanks Wol
        Aubergine Mint: thanks
        Mickorod Renard: great
        Wol Euler: yw
        Mickorod Renard: yes, I do too Qt
        Zon Quar: omg..i htought u knew what u were doing
        Mickorod Renard: have we had any more news on the retreat in malta?
        Wol Euler: that's the great big dirty secret of life, Zon: we are all making it up as we go along
        Mickorod Renard: Zon,,this is exploration,,
        Zon Quar: lol..good im at the right plce then
        Mickorod Renard: we wont know until we find it
        Zon Quar: and then we will find we were looking for that what we already had
        Wol Euler: often, yes, like Dorothy.
        Qt Core: that is if we recognize It wjen we find It...
        Mickorod Renard: yes, exactly,,but it was burried under lifes complications
        Zon Quar: and we like digging
        Mickorod Renard: yeh,,but maybe the 9 seconds is like comming up for air
        Mickorod Renard: perhaps we should forget the digging and just stay in the air?
        Zon Quar: hm..could be boring
        Qt Core: isn't the opposite mick
        Mickorod Renard: in some respects this reminds me of that issue Stim brought up once in Wok
        Mickorod Renard: that we are busy going,,or trying to get to
        Mickorod Renard: without appreciating now
        Zon Quar: we need to dig and breath at the same time
        Mickorod Renard: I keep saying to myself things like,,when I have done this,,or when I have that,,I can move on
        Wol Euler nods
        Wol Euler: putting off living.
        Mickorod Renard: but miss the actual now,,and its good points
        Mickorod Renard: yes
        Wol Euler: it's a feeling like "you haven't earned this yet"
        Mickorod Renard: yes, I always put off having children,,thought I needed to save up more
        Mickorod Renard: but in reality, that was a silly thought
        Wol Euler nods. Though the poor manage it quite well somehow.
        Mickorod Renard: yes, exactly
        Zon Quar: and stay poor...
        Mickorod Renard: well,, I wonder sometimes about the definition of poor
        Mickorod Renard: sometimes we are less well off with money than we would be with apreciating life
        Zon Quar: true
        Mickorod Renard: to many having a family is more valuable,,not for everyone mind
        Wol Euler: "Money is the husk of many things but not the kernel. It brings you food, but not appetite; medicine, but not health; acquaintance, but not friends; servants, but not loyalty; days of joy, but not peace or happiness."
        Mickorod Renard: that was nice Wol#
        Zon Quar: anyway..if i need to suffer..i rathere suffer with money than without it
        Wol Euler smiles. I found that recently, liked it and saved it.
        Qt Core: i had many discussion with people asking me why i don't go searching for bigger paycheck
        Mickorod Renard: had to read it again,,lovely reminder
        Wol Euler: what do you tell them?
        Qt Core: that at my point i would have to do the big step, go from doing to managing, probably, i don't want and i would dislike it too
        Wol Euler: mmhmm, that is worth knowing.
        Mickorod Renard: yes
        Qt Core: so less, not even less, just the same money but better life
        Mickorod Renard: horses for courses I say
        Qt Core: and i hardly contest the rule one knows how to do wuold surely know how to manage the ones that do
        Mickorod Renard: I think its good you stick to your guns Qt
        Qt Core: i can't even manage myself ;-)
        Mickorod Renard: I stood in the garded in rl the other day,,dropped as much thought as posible,,and became swamped with a feeling of,,being alone with my surroundings,,it was wierd
        Mickorod Renard: garden*
        Wol Euler: was it a good wierd or a bad wierd?
        Mickorod Renard: indifferent,,;)
        Mickorod Renard: bit of both
        Wol Euler: were you comfortable with that feeling?
        Mickorod Renard: I dont think I was,,it felt alien..also,,I felt detached and yet as one in material make up
        Zon Quar: a transition expereince
        Mickorod Renard: maybe someone spiked my drink
        Mickorod Renard: I think it was sometimg like a transition experience
        Aubergine Mint: what is a transition experience?
        Zon Quar: go deeper in aloneness
        Mickorod Renard: to me,,anyway,,it felt like all my atoms were in the same consistancy as everything else
        Zon Quar: yes..alone..all one
        Wol Euler points to Aubergine's question. Could someone answer please? I don't know either.
        Calvino Rabeni: oops, caps lock :)
        Mickorod Renard: I am unsure
        Zon Quar: when u turn form ur senses inwards
        Mickorod Renard: but I felt some sort of transition in nature of my presence
        Mickorod Renard: thought it was spooky
        Zon Quar: there is a transition of consciousness
        Calvino Rabeni: how did it end? Did it linger past the moment?
        Wol Euler: ty, zon
        Mickorod Renard: it did,,I needed to snap out of it conciously
        Mickorod Renard: maybe I am just going crazy
        Zon Quar: lol..no
        Mickorod Renard: but wondered if its part of that connection we may be looking for
        Zon Quar: i think so..u know the zen saying...
        Zon Quar: whan i started my hourney
        Zon Quar: journey montains were mountains
        Zon Quar: then..mountains were not mountains anymore
        Zon Quar: after enlightemnet
        Zon Quar: mountains were mountains again
        Mickorod Renard: I see
        Mickorod Renard: has anyone else felt these things?
        Wol Euler: I think so, yes.
        Zon Quar: all kinds of funny things..lol
        Mickorod Renard: he he
        Mickorod Renard: but that makes great sense Zon
        Calvino Rabeni: Zon, you know the ox-herding pictures?
        Calvino Rabeni: Lovely illustration of your point.
        Zon Quar: yes 10 bulls
        Mickorod Renard: can that be found on net Calvino?
        Calvino Rabeni: http://www.google.com/search?q=ox+herding+pictures
        Mickorod Renard: thanks
        Calvino Rabeni: After enlightenment - back to the marketplace with people
        Calvino Rabeni: No escape :)
        Calvino Rabeni: In service, though, I think
        Mickorod Renard: I may have to look at that later
        Zon Quar: i lkie the 10th picture
        Zon Quar: where the searcher returns drunk and celebrating
        Zon Quar: to teh market palce
        Calvino Rabeni: Barefooted and naked of breast, I mingle with the people of the world. My clothes are ragged and dust-laden, and I am ever blissful. I use no magic to extend my life; Now, before me, the dead trees become alive.
        Calvino Rabeni: -- That from the text of the 10th picture
        Mickorod Renard: sorry, I missed Yaku leaving
        Zon Quar: yes..monastry is not the end point
        Calvino Rabeni: You might say "magic" refers also to "technique" - like, the things we do to practice.
        Mickorod Renard: there must be some point where a leap of faith is needed?
        Calvino Rabeni: I can relate to that
        Zon Quar: yes..trust in life
        Zon Quar: and there we go.....
        Mickorod Renard: yes..;)
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I was thinking of many tiny "leaps", not something dramatic
        Mickorod Renard: I am either held back by my doubts,,or saved from disaster by my caution
        Zon Quar: i know the feeling
        Wol Euler: heheheh
        Calvino Rabeni: So do I. Knowing the difference seems like where the leap is.
       Mickorod Renard: yes..grin
        Mickorod Renard: as a kid I read superman,,and I often would climb up on the roodf and dare myself too leap
        Wol Euler: O.O
        Zon Quar: trust doesnt mean blind belief or foolhardiness..lol
        Wol Euler: perhaps your caution is a good thing.
        Mickorod Renard: he he
        Mickorod Renard: in that case yes
        Mickorod Renard: but also I am a risk taker when challenged
        Zon Quar: calculated risks r good
        Mickorod Renard: yes
        Calvino Rabeni: There are different ways of risk taking. I take them - kind of like to - but it is calculated
        Mickorod Renard: me too
        Calvino Rabeni: Like riding a motorcycle fast on a mountain road
        Mickorod Renard: hi widget
        Widget Whiteberry walks in quietly ...
        Mickorod Renard: hey,,are u a biker too Calvino?
        Calvino Rabeni: I would trust my body, but not do it going into a blind curve
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, recreational
        Mickorod Renard: me too
        Calvino Rabeni: I rarely scrape the pegs
        Zon Quar: ah..i want to be
        Calvino Rabeni: Zen and motorcycle. :)
        Wol Euler: hello widget
        Calvino Rabeni: Hadn't noticed the bell - no sound
        Widget Whiteberry: Hello Wol
        Mickorod Renard: sports bike then Calvino?
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and dual sport
        Zon Quar: when u drive fast..u r concentrated..its kind of meditation..u r here and now
        Calvino Rabeni: Indeed, I like that
        Mickorod Renard: I find biking is the closest thing to taking my head off
        Alfred Kelberry: hey, widget :)
        Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
        Calvino Rabeni: Hopefully not literally :)
        Zon Quar: lol
        Wol Euler: wow, you and Widget must be cousins.
        Mickorod Renard: yea,Alf
        Zon Quar: hi alf
        Alfred Kelberry: i know her from the metanomics group
        Widget Whiteberry: the extended Berry clan?
        Wol Euler: :)
        Alfred Kelberry: and we both actually attended the previous meeting on social engineering :)
        Wol Euler: aah
        Widget Whiteberry: for which I was also late
        Mickorod Renard: bye folks,,nice chatting
        Widget Whiteberry: seem to be an hr off today
        Alfred Kelberry: *and* we both wear scarfs :)
        Widget Whiteberry: so that proves it
        Alfred Kelberry: hey, you cut your hair, wol? :)
        Wol Euler: :)
        Wol Euler: often
        Wol Euler: one of thte joys of SL
        Alfred Kelberry: true
        Calvino Rabeni: You're tempting me, Wol
        Wol Euler: :)
        Wol Euler: go for it. Make a collection.
        Calvino Rabeni: Dreads, perhaps.
        Qt Core: you have a little scaring nikita like outfit Wol
        Wol Euler: I have several hundred but there are only a half-dozen that I actually wear.
        Widget Whiteberry: I must go
        Widget Whiteberry: that kind of day
        Widget Whiteberry: bye all
        Wol Euler: bye widget, it was brief but sweet
        Qt Core: bye widget
        Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
        Alfred Kelberry: qt, right! and i was wondering what is it so familiar :)
        Wol Euler: :)
        Qt Core: the glasses are the key point
        Wol Euler: one of my favourites
        Wol Euler: the glasses are wonderful, yes. scripted, colour and darkness change
        Qt Core: photocromatic ?
        Alfred Kelberry: do you also have a gun hidden... somewhere? :)
        Wol Euler: :)
        Wol Euler: yes, I do actually.
        Wol Euler grins
        Alfred Kelberry: uh oh
        Qt Core: ok, but Alfred, she is way more dangerpus with a pencil ;-)
        Calvino Rabeni: "dangerpus" :)
        Wol Euler purrs dangerously
        Alfred Kelberry giggles
        Calvino Rabeni: Nikita's journey was like the 10 bulls story
        Alfred Kelberry: what's this cultivator group? i've seen several pab members wearing it.
        Wol Euler: it's actually a role in the pab group, alf
        Alfred Kelberry: ah.. someone important?
        Wol Euler shrugs. Define important. We are all very important.
        Alfred Kelberry: :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps more roles could be added to that group - for purposes of avatar expression
        Calvino Rabeni: It only has 2.
        Qt Core: yeah, i'm thinking about the title of an italian song... "confused and happy" ;-)
        Calvino Rabeni: Could be a role.
        Calvino Rabeni: Ir "dangerously eclectic"
        Wol Euler: that's good, I'll suggest that. There are seven roles already, actually.
        Calvino Rabeni: I missed it I guess
        Wol Euler: though some are quite specific. None of us will ever qualify as "owner", for example
        Qt Core: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ddi_wQteIg
        Alfred Kelberry: sfw? :)
        Wol Euler: music
        Alfred Kelberry: ah, the song!
        Qt Core: the song i mentioned before,
        Qt Core: "confusa e felice" ([female[ confounded and happy)
        Qt Core: confused
        Wol Euler: that would be a great group title, you're right.
        Qt Core: the singer main characteristic is her strange breathing pattern
        Alfred Kelberry: like what?
        Calvino Rabeni: I am getting a lot of neurons dedicated to google/youtube/wiki.
        Wol Euler: :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Should I be concerned :)
        Calvino Rabeni: And now SL
        Qt Core: she breaths when one may not expect it (but maybe you have to speak italian to notice that)
        Wol Euler: perhaps, yes, we wouldn't necessarily notice what to you is an odd speech rhythm
        Alfred Kelberry: qt, yes, can not tell by the video
        Alfred Kelberry: maybe a musician could explain it better
        Calvino Rabeni: Sitting in group, telling stories - it is an age-old thing to do - but now we have the world too, courtesy of http://
        Wol Euler: mmhmm
        Alfred Kelberry: cal, right. but then you probably free some too, no?
        Wol Euler: we can hear everyone's stories. And htey can hear ours too.
        Wol Euler: for certain values of "everyone"
        Qt Core: but that make hard, very hard to get the good ones
        Calvino Rabeni: Mystery will find a way to gets its due.
        Qt Core: and/or the relevant ones
        Wol Euler: I disagree, Qt. It perhaps makes it difficult to find *all* the good ones, but it works very well at finding *some* very good ones.
        Wol Euler: Like the way we all found our way here.
        Alfred Kelberry: qt, social bookmarking does a good job so far :)
        Wol Euler: or the way bloggers recommend each other, chains f bookmarking (nods to Alf)
        Calvino Rabeni: Anyone here read Piet's article on limits?
        Qt Core: i sometimes love, sometimes hate the omniscience the web gives you
        Wol Euler: not yet, cal, where is it?
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I am thinking same, Qt
        Qt Core: as sometimes it just give you the knowledge about how much of it you are missing
        Calvino Rabeni: (will look for link)
        Wol Euler: heheh
        Wol Euler: actually bookstores do that for me too, qt. "so many books, so little time"
        Qt Core: well, my own books too ;-)
        Alfred Kelberry: what i like about the net is that it fosters an open society
        Calvino Rabeni: Much of the internet has an implicit metaphysics oftranscendance and frictionless
        Calvino Rabeni: WHich is a bit one-sided
        Alfred Kelberry: cal, a matter of perspective :)
        Qt Core: when in paranoid mode i wonder if it is real or just what They want us to believe ;-)
        Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ids.ias.edu/~piet/publ/abisko/ab.html
        Wol Euler: the buddhists would say that that has always been true, qt.
        Wol Euler: ty, calvino
        Qt Core: but i can't be paranoid for too much time as i end up thinking that id the world is really that bad i prefer not to know
        Calvino Rabeni: "Freedom from identification is something extremely paradoxical"
        Alfred Kelberry: wol, i'll remember that :)
        Calvino Rabeni: (from the above link)
        Wol Euler: hmmmmm
        Qt Core: as you end up identified as the free one ?
        Alfred Kelberry: qt, "confused and happy" seems to fit you nicely :)
        Qt Core: i'm usually not confused, it is just my litle friend the devil's advocate that make me seems so ;-)
        Calvino Rabeni: An overidentification with freedom - the yang pole of a dynamic process
       Qt Core: sadly rl calls, have to go
        Wol Euler: are you sure it does?
        Wol Euler: :)
        Alfred Kelberry: yes, i shouls go too
        Wol Euler: bye qt, bye alf, take care.
        Qt Core: bye all
        Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
        Alfred Kelberry: nice, i really enjoy pab meets :)
        Wol Euler: good.
        Alfred Kelberry: cal, didn't know you're an artist :)
        Wol Euler: I need to do some geeking on the listener script, so 'm going to stop it now.

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