2009.12.18 01:00 - Poetry will always be better than TV

Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

I sat on my own for a while. 

Wol Euler: Well, dear Wol, here we are at your last Friday 1am of the year.
Wol Euler: yes, Wol, it's amazing how the time flies. How long have I been a guardian, I wonder?

Calvino arrived while I was searching for the answer in the wiki logs. 

Wol Euler: hello calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Good day!
Wol Euler: this is early for you, or late?
Calvino Rabeni: It is a bit too late here
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: but not *too* too late?
Calvino Rabeni: heh :)
Calvino Rabeni: It takes several toos to be too-too if you know what I mean
Wol Euler: yeah
Wol Euler: the joy and curse of online life: just another five minutes, just one more prim in the right place, just one more improvement to the script …
Calvino Rabeni: that is the hacker mentality - just ome more compile, or whatever, round the cycle you go
Calvino Rabeni: The brain makes its own alertness chemical
Wol Euler: right :)
Wol Euler: but that chemical has a hangover nearly as bad as alcohol, if you get enough (too much) of it
Calvino Rabeni: luckily there are countermeasures
Calvino Rabeni: or I would have been doomed for sure
Wol Euler: heheh
Calvino Rabeni: One learns ones own limits
Calvino Rabeni: by excess, if I remember a maxim by william blake
Wol Euler: or William Burroughs

--BELL--

An old friend returns during the extended silence that followed the bell.

Wol Euler: hello strannik, haven't seen you in quite a while
Strannik Zipper: hello - haven't been here for a while
Strannik Zipper: (are we still in the quiet period - I can't tell)
Wol Euler: no, we're being quiet but just for fun (as it were)
Strannik Zipper: ah
Wol Euler: calvino might have fallen asleep at the keyboard
Strannik Zipper: hahaha

Calvino changes his tag to read "alert and chipper". 

Strannik Zipper: no, I guess not!
Wol Euler: so, how are you? How's the practice going on?
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: I approve of subtlety.
Strannik Zipper: I just had to turn around quickly - the cat was about to dump a glass of water in my lap!
Wol Euler: O.O

Calvino changes his tag to "very subtle", and shifts the conversation in a new direction. 

Strannik Zipper: I'm feeling about as subtle as a sledgehammer at the moment
Calvino Rabeni: I am all for sledghammers
Calvino Rabeni: But curious, Stran
Wol Euler: tell us more?
Strannik Zipper: I suppose that I associate subtlety with sensitive awareness, subtle perception

--BELL--

Wol Euler: and you are feeling unaware, unperceptive?
Strannik Zipper: I would say more of a gross level - I am better in the morning - My brain has been spinning in orbit, my cat is poking me for attention, etc.
Strannik Zipper: I was having thoughts that were charged with feelings etc.
Strannik Zipper: Its a bit like tunnel vision compared to a more subtle panoramic awareness and quiet ;-)
Strannik Zipper: Of course there is a level of awareness underneath that tells me how unaware I am
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: mind within minds
Calvino Rabeni: It would be interesting to have a big wheel here, to spin it, and select what mode of attention to have - or which of those minds to use
Wol Euler: :)
Strannik Zipper: that is doable to a point
Wol Euler: well, that is pretty close to what enlightened seeing does, isn't it?
Strannik Zipper: I would say that enlightenment is the background of the wheel
Calvino Rabeni: Yes my point , I think you got it, stran
Wol Euler: or perhaps "enlightenment is knowing that there is a wheel", that the way we see is an optoin that we chose

Archmage joins us.

Wol Euler: hello arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Wol, Cal, Srannik
Strannik Zipper: Hi Arch
Calvino Rabeni: Hello arch koya fred's
Archmage Atlantis: Smile
Calvino Rabeni: The tiger has some behaviors
Calvino Rabeni: WHich I have not dared to explore
Strannik Zipper: Hello Freddie and Fredrica
Strannik Zipper: and Koya
Archmage Atlantis: Well, he is script challenged, *grin*
Wol Euler: :)
Strannik Zipper: He's not house broken, but he is script broken
Wol Euler laughs.
Archmage Atlantis: When he came to me, I decided to accept who he/she is as a metaphor :)
Archmage Atlantis: Defects and all
Wol Euler nods. Just like people, actually.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes.....to accept others as they are
Strannik Zipper: yes, its best not to try to exchange or upgrade people either
Wol Euler nods.
Archmage Atlantis: Not so easy when the guy behind the car is blaring the horn, or my 16 yo RL cats misses his box *grin*
Wol Euler: "All part of Being's rich tapestry" as the saying goes.
Strannik Zipper: Those people are actually the most helpful in many ways

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: Well, certainly they provide opportunities to practice short term medictation techniques
Calvino Rabeni: I can see that, Strannik
Strannik Zipper: was that meditation or medication?
Wol Euler: I say "thank you for letting me practice Metta" to such people (but not out loud!)
Archmage Atlantis: Funny slip, but I meant meditation......in the past mediction may have been more accurate :)

Calvino introduces a new topic. 

Calvino Rabeni: Care for a semi-serious topic?
Wol Euler: sure
Archmage Atlantis: yeppers
Strannik Zipper: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Well, about spiritual ambition then
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Strannik Zipper: ooh...
Wol Euler: I thought ambition was ego, and ego was to be quelled?
Calvino Rabeni: People seem to want to go somewhere
Calvino Rabeni: or be different
Calvino Rabeni: or change
Wol Euler: but is that not defined as being part ofhte problem? :)
Archmage Atlantis: non sequitur
Strannik Zipper: that is one half
Wol Euler: desire -> unhappiness
Calvino Rabeni: like, no more reincarnations please
Calvino Rabeni: or , I wish I were not angry about person X
Wol Euler: (as I understand it, perhaps I'm wrong)
Calvino Rabeni: Or, I am too distracted
Calvino Rabeni: Or, I want my mind clear, not the usual chaotic blather that is in there
Calvino Rabeni: Or, Or, ...
Archmage Atlantis: All the many desires, yes
Strannik Zipper: Or I'm happy the way I am, I don't want to change or grow or do anything hard
Calvino Rabeni: This prompted by the earlier, about people who are (annoying or whatever)
Archmage Atlantis: Is there more to the thought Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: If I have a reaction, samskara or whatever you want to call it
Calvino Rabeni: a friend days, "when I get that I let it go, I lay it at the feet of the guru"
Calvino Rabeni: And he asked if I found it helpful (as a suggestion)
Calvino Rabeni: My reaction was, I might do that if I wanted to not be annoyed
Archmage Atlantis: A way of saying it, yes.....I would say I feel it, understand it as normal, and let it go.....somewhat the same
Calvino Rabeni: but it doesn't seem to be interfering with anything
Archmage Atlantis: It does not mean, to me, that I do not take action as I see appropriate
Archmage Atlantis: I clean up after the cat for example
Calvino Rabeni: I'm in no hurry to seek enlightenment, whatever that is
Calvino Rabeni: Sure
Wol Euler nods to calvino
Calvino Rabeni: It is a choice
Calvino Rabeni: And in a way feel no ambition at least if ambition is a desire
Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand I feel energy of some kind
Calvino Rabeni: And it moves me to change

Complacency, confusion, laziness. 

Calvino Rabeni: Maybe I do have a slight worry in there, about complacency
Archmage Atlantis: That was always my problem with the concept of enlightenment....If i don't "care" about things, aren't I just being complacent
Calvino Rabeni: But basically I'm pretty happy to hang out in the confused realms with everyone
Archmage Atlantis: Now I see it differently
Wol Euler raises her coffee cup to confusion.
Strannik Zipper: I think I see ambition as a type of fixation, where as not working can also be a type of fixation
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah

--BELL--

Strannik Zipper: When I was younger, I was fixated on ambition, now I am more likely to be fixated on laziness of a type
Archmage Atlantis: Ambition, as a word, does carry the implication of a desire....in this case a desired outcome
Calvino Rabeni: I had a discussion earlier today about "laziness" with storm.
Strannik Zipper: I think we can be motivated without it coming from ego and ambition
Calvino Rabeni: Whatever it may be
Archmage Atlantis: One acts with imperfect understanding and knowledge, and accept that the outcome is no one's to own
Strannik Zipper: This is why there are many meditations on the preciousness and shortness of human life
Strannik Zipper: motivations to compassion etc.
Calvino Rabeni: good reminders
Archmage Atlantis: Plus, laziness is, to me, a judgement......the body and mind are of the RL and need to pause and regroup at times
Calvino Rabeni: I can see that one
Archmage Atlantis: That looks like laziness to those who chose that judgement
Calvino Rabeni: I've heard a number of ideas of it advanced lately
Strannik Zipper: its like the fiddle string - too tight and it breaks, too loose, and it doesn't work
Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Strannik
Calvino Rabeni: And the in-between tension - you make choices
Wol Euler thinks of all the different guitar and banjo tunings.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Cal, that is how I see it
Calvino Rabeni: life is choices, on one lavel
Strannik Zipper: I like to think that life gives a pitch, and you try to tune accordingly
Strannik Zipper: like the beginning of a symphony
Calvino Rabeni: the string seems to imply a symphony
Archmage Atlantis: Time for me to go, have a wonderful next time period Cal, Wol, Strannick...Bye now
Strannik Zipper: Or you could be somebody using non-standard tunings
Wol Euler: bye arch, sleep well
Calvino Rabeni: bfn Arch!
Strannik Zipper: cheers Arch
Wol Euler: my dears, I must get to work. I've claimed the session, please carry on.
Wol Euler: bye for now
Strannik Zipper: Cheers Wol
Calvino Rabeni: bye wol!

Strannik and Calvino continued for quite a while, talking about poetry and places in all worlds.

Calvino Rabeni: What is your SL island for, Stran?
Strannik Zipper: Its a combination of things - my virtual offices, a library, bookstore, classroom and conference center, Cafe and place to dance
Strannik Zipper: Many of my interests in virtual form
Calvino Rabeni: a particular mission of some kind?
Strannik Zipper: Including a poets gallery - I see that you are familiar with the blue angel!
Calvino Rabeni: Or chareacter, I think I mean
Calvino Rabeni: SOmewhat familare, I like to get the notices
Calvino Rabeni: I like the open mic events

--BELL--

Strannik Zipper: Well, its sort of a mediterranean Island theme
Calvino Rabeni: Tell me about the poets gallery, if you like
Strannik Zipper: not much there now, but it is a place for concrete poetry or poems turned into visual art or illuminated poems
Calvino Rabeni: interesting
Strannik Zipper: stop by an visit any time you like
Calvino Rabeni: I will. Do you have a handy landmark?
Strannik Zipper: I think that is current
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks.
Calvino Rabeni: Is there such a thing as SL books (that are good), or does the bookstore have RL books ?
Strannik Zipper: I have books in 3 types: Books that are links to an amazon store, books that are of the type that are actual virtual books (readable on virtual coffeetables or via hud) and books that are just objects containing notes
Calvino Rabeni: I think there's a lot of potential for SL and arts, including word arts
Strannik Zipper: I get so many notices, it seems like there is almost a writer's renaissance here of sorts (at leat in potential)
Calvino Rabeni: I see. so you click the object and an SL notecard opens
Strannik Zipper: well you take the object, and it contains several notes - e.g. one note per chapter
Strannik Zipper: necessary due to the SL limit on note size
Calvino Rabeni: How do you select between the chapters?
Calvino Rabeni: I was shopping the other day, but didn't find anything cheap or that would fit the need
Strannik Zipper: right click the object, and open, and then click on the note
Strannik Zipper: or copy all of the notes to a folder
Calvino Rabeni: OK, nothing special, just use the viewer folder interface
Strannik Zipper: I also have one of the book presses for books that are more graphical - I have heard that there are better book presses, but I haven't investigated too much
Calvino Rabeni: They seem to cost too much
Strannik Zipper: yeah it is pricey - much cheaper than a real press of course
Calvino Rabeni: A blank book you can write in and transfer but not copy should be very cheap
Strannik Zipper: you are basically paying for all of the little script goodies included
Calvino Rabeni: RIght,but it costs nothing to dup them.
Strannik Zipper: page animations, a certain degree of automating the setup etc.
Strannik Zipper: once you make a book, you can make infinite copies
Calvino Rabeni: Surprised no one has made a free one and set it loose
Strannik Zipper: its a bit of a vanity item - any serious documents and you can put a link to a pdf or ebook
Strannik Zipper: someone has done a free one , but it wasn't as good
Calvino Rabeni: What do you think of a writer's renaissance?

--BELL--

Strannik Zipper: its nice when they happen, even if in a small way. when a group of people get together and inspire each other and create a certain amount of energy, perhaps creating a lot of good work in the process
Strannik Zipper: I've gotten to be a part of such things a couple of times
Calvino Rabeni: what country do you live in now, Stran?
Strannik Zipper: California - USA
Strannik Zipper: and you?
Calvino Rabeni: Used to be Calif. Now Seattle
Calvino Rabeni: OK, so you know the spotty history of poetry in the US
Strannik Zipper: Did you ever go to poetry readings in San Francisco?
Calvino Rabeni: and its fall from being a popular art
Calvino Rabeni: Not really, although I do here.
Strannik Zipper: poetry waxes and wanes
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps, but Longfellow used to be as popular as Steven King is now
Calvino Rabeni: So it's mostly, waned
Strannik Zipper: I was at Naropa when Ginsberg, Di Prima, Burroughs etc. were there
Calvino Rabeni: I hope for a comeback
Calvino Rabeni: Disembodied Poetics
Strannik Zipper: yeah!
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, I lived in Boulder, maybe a bit after that time
Strannik Zipper: cool
Strannik Zipper: I used to know a guy who was a student at Naropa who opened a bookstore in Boulder - I'm trying to remember his name
Calvino Rabeni: There were some good hangouts in boulder
Calvino Rabeni: Bookends Cafe / bookstore on Pearl street
Strannik Zipper: I loved it! I was only there for a week or so. One of the Naropa readings was in nice Coffeehouse
Strannik Zipper: What I didn't know is, that some of these classes and readings were recorded, and are now freely downloadable from Internet Archive
Calvino Rabeni: So what is in your area, of that ilk?
Calvino Rabeni: I recall coming across that.
Calvino Rabeni: Basically, I'm a populist
Calvino Rabeni: I'd rather 10,000,000 mediocre poets than 1,000 good ones
Strannik Zipper: There used to be some interesting readings in San Francisco that I used to frequent
Calvino Rabeni: so I go to the neighborhood dives
Calvino Rabeni: skip the concert hall
Calvino Rabeni: power to the people
Strannik Zipper: I tend to like a wide spectrum of stuff
Strannik Zipper: I think that was what I liked about Naropa - it was very approachable - Ginsberg would teach poetics to anyone regardless of station in life, talent or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: returning from crash I am
Strannik Zipper: thought so
Calvino Rabeni: Theres a subculture of poets that have no ambitions for fame

--BELL--

Noob: hi
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Noob
Strannik Zipper whispers hi
Calvino Rabeni: Hi
Noob: whats going on
Calvino Rabeni: this is a place where we have a group that meets 4 times a day
Strannik Zipper: This is normally a space where we investigate being in a playful way
Calvino Rabeni: for talk and meditation
Calvino Rabeni: right, playful is its mojo
Strannik Zipper: yeah poetry is pure, there is no money and even its fame is obscure
Calvino Rabeni: but it is a medium for all this other stuff
Calvino Rabeni: for the messages and meanings people need to put out in the "we" spaces
Calvino Rabeni: Like art, but much cheaper to produce
Strannik Zipper: I like poetry because it is the ultimate form of hypertext - combining music, visual arts philosophy, experience all into one
Calvino Rabeni: Especially, I like the pure vocal variety
Calvino Rabeni: performance art
Calvino Rabeni: it's primal, you have body but no page
Strannik Zipper: yeah! I haven't seen so much of that lately
Strannik Zipper: it was really hot in the 80s
Calvino Rabeni: as in slam/jam?
Strannik Zipper: I have a love/hate relationship with slam - it can be a big ego thing for some
Strannik Zipper: but I do love some of the slam poets
Strannik Zipper: Have you ever heard Beth Lisick?
Calvino Rabeni: No, is on Youtube?
Strannik Zipper: hmmmm....good question - I never thought of looking there
Strannik Zipper: ooh! she is!
Strannik Zipper: check out litquake
Calvino Rabeni: http://video.google.com/videosearch?...d=0CCwQqwQwCA#
Calvino Rabeni: One long URL
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ry=beth+lisick
Calvino Rabeni: better
Calvino Rabeni: I have the love hate thing also
Calvino Rabeni: I don't like the drive to professionalize
Calvino Rabeni: since it continues the disempowerment of everyone else
Calvino Rabeni: unless they have the competitive gener
Calvino Rabeni: Gene, or urge
Strannik Zipper: That is why poetry will always be better than TV, but never as popular
Strannik Zipper: here is one of mine:
Strannik Zipper: http://strannik.com/geekpilgrim/node/29

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: very cool, I read it during the pause
Calvino Rabeni: did you ride?
Strannik Zipper: I forget how much good stuff there is on Youtube
Calvino Rabeni: I liked the bebop / railroad juxtaposition
Strannik Zipper: Did I ride - the rails?
Calvino Rabeni: I wasn't aware of a Beat / Track link
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Strannik Zipper: I used to train between SF and San Jose every day
Strannik Zipper: Kerouac worked for the Southern Pacific about the same time as my Grandfather and uncles
Calvino Rabeni: I think, ironically, my first encounter with any kind of non-traditional lifestyle was Kerouac's The Dharma Bums
Strannik Zipper: One of my favorite Kerouac Poems is "song of the railroad earth"
Calvino Rabeni: It actually prompted me to hit the rails and really get a feel for it
Calvino Rabeni: Possibly my first "zen" experiences
Strannik Zipper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLj1GwMvh8Y
Calvino Rabeni: very fun

--BELL--

Strannik Zipper: I love trains
Calvino Rabeni: I always liked that riff on Charlie Parker that Kerouac wrote into The Subterraneans
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I have iron in my blood
Calvino Rabeni: ... evn though it was later roundly criticized on political grounds
Strannik Zipper: Kerouac had amazing talent - he could just verbally riff like any jazz artist
Calvino Rabeni: but as word art it worked, in a romantic way
Calvino Rabeni: right
Calvino Rabeni: trains have such power and momentum
Calvino Rabeni: and sense of history
Calvino Rabeni: a certain language you can learn from them
Strannik Zipper: I really love old neglected railyards - which unfortunately are rapidly disappearing
Calvino Rabeni: True and unfortunate
Calvino Rabeni: Hope they haven't cleaned up Barstow
Strannik Zipper: Hmmmm....last time I was there was in 2000 - I couldn't have told you
Strannik Zipper: it did seem like Flagstaff got mall-i-fied between 1985 and 2000
Strannik Zipper: I was trying to connect with what was left of route 66 at the time
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah. It's been awhile.
Calvino Rabeni: Have you seen this train video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSqNx7vJLDE
Strannik Zipper: hahaha - wow!
Calvino Rabeni: lots of versions on youtube, some showing the part where the market vanishes also
Calvino Rabeni: it s a different take on trains
Calvino Rabeni: The ones in the West have sagebrush reaching off to the horizon
Strannik Zipper: I've heard that the new light rail bisects Bangkok neighborhoods everywhere
Calvino Rabeni: This one is like an Escher drawing
Calvino Rabeni: at street level?
Calvino Rabeni: The elevated train is pretty nice
Strannik Zipper: no, I think its raised
Calvino Rabeni: It is astoundingly COLD in that train
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure exactly why
Strannik Zipper: recently in this area, they have been putting up mor fences around the trains because people keep throwing themselves in front of them

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: suicide, or careless?
Strannik Zipper: suicide, unfortunately
Calvino Rabeni: Are you in the bay area still?
Strannik Zipper: yup
Calvino Rabeni: Do you know Doug Sosa in RL?
Calvino Rabeni: I'm still learning who's where of the PAB crew
Strannik Zipper: I don't think so
Calvino Rabeni: Palo Alto
Strannik Zipper: I'm closer to San Jose - I've been away from PAB for a while, so there are a lot of folks I don't know
Calvino Rabeni: Ah. And I'm new-ish
Calvino Rabeni: I partly grew up in that area
Strannik Zipper: I do know Pema - I met him years ago at a retreat
Calvino Rabeni: Thre may be a PAB retreat in that area soon
Strannik Zipper: There was one near here last August, but I was completely jammed up in the middle of big projects
Calvino Rabeni: what is your area of work, If I may ask?
Strannik Zipper: Writing things less stimulating than poetry, but which pays
Strannik Zipper: business writing, websites etc.
Strannik Zipper: are you a coder?
Calvino Rabeni: software design, includes coding, analysis, etc.
Strannik Zipper: for Bill?
Calvino Rabeni: :) gates you mean?
Strannik Zipper: yeah
Calvino Rabeni: never
Strannik Zipper: hahaha - good for you - but Seattle is close to the dark side HQ ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: SOme of my friends retired with $$$$, but I have my clean conscience which is priceless :)
Strannik Zipper: not to mention a cleaner disk drive

--BELL--

Strannik Zipper: Well I am up WAY too late, but it was nice chatting with you
Calvino Rabeni: Good to meet you too, Strannik. Same timezone here :)
Calvino Rabeni: See you another time .
Strannik Zipper: yup - see you here or at the Blue Angel
Strannik Zipper: have a good one
Calvino Rabeni: OK, I'll check your SL digs
Calvino Rabeni: U2