2009.12.12 13:00 - Living is Creating all the time

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya you both
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorries getting settled at the moment :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: how did you like your log yesterday Yakuzza :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, only 4 hrs :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahaha
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive seen you here before Liza, right?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yep
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Calvino
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
Liza Deischer: hey cal
Liza Deischer: right sophia
Yakuzza Lethecus: i was here only for the first hour of the session
Yakuzza Lethecus: eliza came back after the pheno session
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, I came in about 3 hours later ^.^
SophiaSharon Larnia: does anyone have anything they want to discuss??
Calvino Rabeni: how about creativity?
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, i have a thought that Id been meaning to ask
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: sort of related to creativity
Calvino Rabeni: 9
Calvino Rabeni: what is that sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: what are your thought on using sl as a meditative tool for creative expression, building in particular? Is it a valid tool
Calvino Rabeni: BTW, big lag on chat today ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Calvino Rabeni: are you building things in SL ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: this and that
Liza Deischer: what do you mean with 'valid'
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are freebies better than I can make atm
Liza Deischer: building is different then bying
SophiaSharon Larnia: I mean valid by a way to really obtain insight into something
Calvino Rabeni: The chat bubble has .. as if I am typing, but I was not.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I dont see that on my screen :)
Liza Deischer: what means meditation to you?
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, what is a "tool" compared to a practice, for creativ expression?
SophiaSharon Larnia: good question
SophiaSharon Larnia: -s
Calvino Rabeni: I think of a tool, maybe something to build other things
Calvino Rabeni: Or a tool for meditation - to aid meditation, not to build
Calvino Rabeni: Like a mandala
SophiaSharon Larnia: a paintbrush and a canvas can be considered tools, i thought of prims and textures the same way
Calvino Rabeni: Is "flow" important, and is the mediuim of SL good for that?
Liza Deischer: do you man Cal that meditation to you is limited to practice
Liza Deischer: mean

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Meditation has lots of meanings to me, not sure which you might mean
Liza Deischer: I know what you mean sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: flow is very important to me, and sl is good for that as long as I'm not interupted
Liza Deischer: but wat i miss is the use of the whole body
Calvino Rabeni: ZSometimes the difficult thing in these dialogues is choosing between competing threads of ideas
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you, I am not being very clear
Calvino Rabeni: I understand Liza
SophiaSharon Larnia: the whole body Liza :)
Liza Deischer: I miss the grounding
Calvino Rabeni: The end result could express some creativity - some people have done wonderful art in SL
Calvino Rabeni: but I miss the ease of immediacy and embidiment
Calvino Rabeni: Embodiment
Calvino Rabeni: My creative moments are in the planning and imagining, but when I go to do the building and scripting, it just seems like work
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: the grounding bit I hadnt considered... the actual work part does that for me
Liza Deischer: I still imagine when Im building
Calvino Rabeni: WHich is why I am getting more attracted to oral arts - like spoken word - because the doing and being are together
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Liza Deischer: I play piano
Liza Deischer: that includes a lot of layers
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice :)
Liza Deischer: from conentratrion, embodiment
Liza Deischer: different kinds of memories
Liza Deischer: my whole body antipates
Liza Deischer: thnx sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes a language there, in the music and layers
Liza Deischer: but playing is the closest thing to meditation to me
Liza Deischer: when I get up, i feel cleansed (im not sure if I write this right)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i understand
Liza Deischer: if I get up from my computer I feel stressed, because my head si doing all the work
Liza Deischer: but sitting here, certainly has an effect
Liza Deischer: as a contradition
Liza Deischer: contradiction
SophiaSharon Larnia: in what way?
Liza Deischer: there seems to be more room and space
Liza Deischer: the 90 seconds you can do actually sitting on your chair
Calvino Rabeni: I like the word Liza, contradiction - how did that come to you?
Liza Deischer: sl en rl sometimes seem so different and sometimes so alike
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eos, long time no see :)
Liza Deischer: but contradiction to me is the effect it has on my whole being
Liza Deischer: hi Eos
Calvino Rabeni: an alternative
Eos Amaterasu: Am I really there?
Liza Deischer: I dont know
SophiaSharon Larnia: as a cloud Eos
Liza Deischer: i thoght wat is happening behind me :)
Eos Amaterasu: I'm on an iPhone app, Sparkle
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it is nice for an alternative to present itself forcefully, almost
Liza Deischer: ye, i agree
Liza Deischer: hmm he didnt make it
Calvino Rabeni: IPhone - I guess we are even tinier than usual

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: can you say more about an alternative presenting itself forcefully Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: It feels like, we don't really control creativity
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Calvino Rabeni: an alternative might seem like an idea, like - "I know I could do better, or differently"
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes ive been inspired at the 'worst' times, when in the middle of something :)
Calvino Rabeni: but sometimes it seems to come from outside oneself
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Calvino Rabeni: and it might be a creative impulse that seems "not me"
Calvino Rabeni: There are lots of myths, of course
Calvino Rabeni: Muses for example
Calvino Rabeni: But as modern people we can also give that some credit
Calvino Rabeni: And not feel all the time completely responsible for what happens
Calvino Rabeni: in the creativity department
SophiaSharon Larnia: the devil made me do it
Calvino Rabeni: ?
Calvino Rabeni: Does this make sense ?
Calvino Rabeni: A benign spirit, not necessarily a devil
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry sometimes creativity comes out of nowhere, like a flash, no not like a devil
Liza Deischer: the 'not me' I do understand, I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes definately makes sense
Calvino Rabeni: It could come from other people
Calvino Rabeni: Even if they think they are saying something different
Liza Deischer: but to me, that is like all the parts of me, the consious and unconsious one are somehow working together
Calvino Rabeni: That seems like a valid idea to me also
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes, according to one theory, people "dream up" something for others around them
SophiaSharon Larnia: that feels like the basis of the matter actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Liza)
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps because they intuitively know - or unconsciously - what the need is
Liza Deischer: yes, you can ask yourself if the state we described maybe has connections to our surroundings
Liza Deischer: I think so
Liza Deischer: but those are parts of me I normally seem to lack in daily life
Liza Deischer: and I cant define it
SophiaSharon Larnia: nodsnods
Calvino Rabeni: THe lacking things appear in the other people
Liza Deischer: thats an interesting thought
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it is nice to get them back to oneself
Calvino Rabeni: BUt often I'm content to let them keep it
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure if phenomenology has a word for it...
Calvino Rabeni: what psychology calls "projection"
Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking, maybe phenom is a skill to see it quicker
Liza Deischer: I think I understand what you mean
Calvino Rabeni: (If you hang around Kira, one gets lots of ideas :)
Liza Deischer: but sometimes lacking to me is not being able to reach it
Calvino Rabeni: Reach it in what sense, can you say?
SophiaSharon Larnia: do you have a practice or method that helps you reach it Liza?
Liza Deischer: like it is blocked out
Liza Deischer: most of the time an awarenessmeditation helps

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: it is that way for me also.
Liza Deischer: but ina way that I can actually use it, only when Im playing the piano
Liza Deischer: coing back to creativity
Liza Deischer: coming
SophiaSharon Larnia: finding the medium for expression that bypasses the barriers in some way
Calvino Rabeni: meditation has indirect effects, I try to keep in mind
Liza Deischer: true
Calvino Rabeni: The "some way" is invisible
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, like pounding on an open door
Calvino Rabeni: BUt I notice when the "space" is there
Calvino Rabeni: And also when it starts to go away
Calvino Rabeni: Do you notice this kind of thing?
Liza Deischer: yes, I understand what you mean
Liza Deischer: I like the pounding on an open door
SophiaSharon Larnia: (it is not mine i borrowed it lol)
Liza Deischer: still like it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i understand what you mean Calvino about the feel the space
SophiaSharon Larnia: of*
Calvino Rabeni: Identification and some kinds of emotions seem to block the creativity or close the "space"
Liza Deischer: I think that is the right word: identification
Calvino Rabeni: It might feel good, or bad
Liza Deischer: or wanting to identifiy yourself with, but that is more psychology
Liza Deischer: drawin yourself away from yourself
Calvino Rabeni: nice
Calvino Rabeni: that doesn't seem really about who, or where.
Calvino Rabeni: In that sometimes I feel most myself when my attention is on others
Liza Deischer: right
Liza Deischer: it is not the who or where but the need for identification or the identification self
Liza Deischer: can be anything
Calvino Rabeni: I don't think I've ever had a dlalogue before about this - inner sense of discrimination
Calvino Rabeni: Do people have an inner compass?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i think so
Calvino Rabeni: As in, how to know when going the right direction
Calvino Rabeni: since it isn't defined by externals and objects
Liza Deischer: I know a have
Liza Deischer: but like my inventory
Liza Deischer: it is sometims hard to find :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Calvino Rabeni: easy to get turned around sometimes
Liza Deischer: meaning?
Calvino Rabeni: emotional expression seems like a tricky one
Calvino Rabeni: You start in one direction, and it appears to be right
SophiaSharon Larnia: an inner compass to me is emotional, if something feels right... but this is judgemental in a way
Calvino Rabeni: later going in the same appearent direction, doing the same thing, it is no longer right
Calvino Rabeni: something important has changed, without noticing it

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: I think context is imported here
Calvino Rabeni: I agree about context, I think.
SophiaSharon Larnia: attempted to drop during the 90 sec and thinking about an inner compass :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: very ephemeral
Liza Deischer: I think then whe you take an action...
Liza Deischer: or anykind....
Liza Deischer: you influence yourself and/or your surroundings....
Liza Deischer: so you change the context....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes an ongoing process
Liza Deischer: which means you cant do the same thing twice....
Liza Deischer: and expect it to work again
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: never exactly the same again
Calvino Rabeni: true action can't be made mechanical I would say
Liza Deischer: I certainly realise that this is for me one of the most intriguing and interesting thing about life
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats what creativity feel like to me, never the same
Calvino Rabeni: I am intrigued that you are intrigued :)
Liza Deischer: exactly
Liza Deischer: thank you for making me realise
Liza Deischer: it cant be mechanical, I agree
Calvino Rabeni: it is a subtle thing, following a delicate thread
Liza Deischer: life requires movement
Calvino Rabeni: in a way, continually re-created
Liza Deischer: true, I think
Calvino Rabeni: that is creativity, in a microscopic way
Liza Deischer: yes, you could say living is creating all the time :)
Liza Deischer: nice
Calvino Rabeni: It reminded me of a poem I heard
Calvino Rabeni:    There's a thread you follow. It goes among

                           things that change. But it doesn't change.

                           People wonder about what you are pursuing.

                           You have to explain about the thread.

                           But it is hard for others to see.

   

                           While you hold it you can't get lost.

                           Tragedies happen; people get hurt

                           or die; and you suffer and get old.

   

                           Nothing you do can stop time's unfolding.

                           You don't ever let go of the thread.

                                                                   ~ William Stafford ~
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: like the poem
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to log off, nice talking to you :)
Calvino Rabeni: That poet had poetry as a meditation like practice
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah interesting Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: OK sophiq, good talking - see you later :)
Liza Deischer: bye Sophia
Liza Deischer: i need to go too
Liza Deischer: but it was very interesting
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Liza
Liza Deischer: thank you
Liza Deischer: bye Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
Calvino Rabeni: CU
Yakuzza Lethecus: night calving
Calvino Rabeni: Yaku-san is meditating with green tea
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i was reading :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: and thinking about if making music can be part of meditating as well

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I was singing today with a group - it definitely was meditation
Yakuzza Lethecus: are you using voice sometimes in second life ?
Calvino Rabeni: not yet, other then the open-mic poetry readings, where so far I listen rather than read
Yakuzza Lethecus: in real life i am often a bit scared about doing new things because irrationally i care to much about how i might get percieved
Calvino Rabeni: What I was referring today was in person, in a big room
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i even think while i try to do something new and can´t really fall itno the situation
Yakuzza Lethecus: do you have a micro ?
Calvino Rabeni: I just turned it up - I hear you
Calvino Rabeni: THis is an old laptop - not a mic