2009.12.19 13:00 - Vows and Wanting

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Storm!
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Storm Nordwind: I'm so sorry, I cannot stop.
SophiaSharon Larnia: _/!\_
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs ... np
Storm Nordwind: I was just checking that all the new PaB noticeboard components are working
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes it looks nice, I hadn't seen it yet, the clock is awesome ;p
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza
Storm Nordwind: I will leave to chat... pizza is served!
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok see you later waves
Storm Nordwind waves
Liza Deischer: hi Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: I may need a refresher on what we do here, I havent been here for a week
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs, I'm only half kidding
Liza Deischer: only half, which half :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza!
Liza Deischer: hi Eli`
Liza Deischer: Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: the refresher part Liza :)
Liza Deischer: ok
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon, Liza :)
Eliza Madrigal: (waiting for hair)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
SophiaSharon Larnia: very festive Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks! :)
Liza Deischer: I've been here all week, but im not sure if i could help you anyway :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) What are we working on?
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles...sometime rl is too real, leaves little room for anything else
Liza Deischer: yep
Liza Deischer: well I brought something up last night
Liza Deischer: (it night here)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, listening :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (will be working on shovel a foot of snow, Eliza, are you jealous? giggles)
Liza Deischer: together with Pema
Eliza Madrigal: Ooooo yes, Sharon!
SophiaSharon Larnia: what was that Liza?
Eliza Madrigal: Though... must say that today is *gorgeous*
Liza Deischer: I wondered if there was enough basis
Liza Deischer: in tradition you can go into depth, because you have a teacher and rules
Liza Deischer: here we want to ben more open
Liza Deischer: at the same time we still want the depth
Liza Deischer: and I was asking myself if that really can work
Liza Deischer: have been talking about it with Pema
Liza Deischer: because it worries me a litte bit
Eliza Madrigal: Liza, I have definitely worked with those questions too..
Liza Deischer: he brought it up yesterday
SophiaSharon Larnia: does being open exclude depth, or is it just touching on the surface of many things?
Liza Deischer: My opinion is that if you want depth
Liza Deischer: you need to know how to approach it
Eliza Madrigal: and still do, to some extent. Traditional teachers and PaB can be quite complimentary I think... BUT... at the same time, there is this phenomenon with the kinds of exercizes we jump into here, that we touch deeper places before we realize it
Liza Deischer: otherwise good concepts can be use in a wrong way
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I do agree with you... there is such a delicate balance
Liza Deischer: yes, and some are very well prepared
Liza Deischer: because they have there own tradition
Eliza Madrigal nods
Liza Deischer: but some aren't
Liza Deischer: and the group is open to everyone
Liza Deischer: and you right Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram :)
Liza Deischer: we get into depth before we realise it ourselfs
SophiaSharon Larnia: Used in the wrong way how, Liza, because they are superficially addressed
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram
Liza Deischer: thats the whole point
Bertram Jacobus: hello eliza ! and liza. and sophia :-))
Liza Deischer: so yuou can make anything out of that
Liza Deischer: hi Bert
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i see
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooo nice sweater Bertram laughs
Liza Deischer: and by the vows I took
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Foxtree :)
Liza Deischer: I am not allowed to talk about it lightly
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Foxtree :)
Liza Deischer: and I dont want to either
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes lightly implies causually
Bertram Jacobus: hehe thanxx sophia - because it´s cold now, winter ... :-)
Liza Deischer: hi foxtree
SophiaSharon Larnia: casually*
Eliza Madrigal: Liza, I think that's wonderful...
Liza Deischer: yes
Liza Deischer: what Eliza?

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: which vows did you take liza ? may i ask ? (and hi foxtree) ... :-) - and hi cal ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is wonderful to take vows... to appreciate the privelege of being taught and working with precious teachings
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting Liza, i definately see the issue there.... my thoughts here involve intention
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Calvino
Liza Deischer: hi Cal
Liza Deischer: Im a tibetan buddhist
Foxtree Gorbunov: hi Cal
Liza Deischer: took the refuge vows
Liza Deischer: the boddisatva vows
Calvino Rabeni: Hello all - I see lots of partial avs :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Liza Deischer: and the vajrayana (tantra) vows
Bertram Jacobus: i practised more intensive tibetan buddhism too a while ago liza -
Bertram Jacobus: more intense then nowadays
Foxtree Gorbunov: Lag...Cal...The old story
Liza Deischer: were you?
Liza Deischer: thats interesting to hear
Eliza Madrigal: There is a sense, at least in my scope, that it is important to connect with people from all kinds of backgrounds... to find essential
Bertram Jacobus: so we could take vows too . many differnet ones. for different times. that´s why i asked ...
Eliza Madrigal: while at the same time being dedicated deeply to what resonates for oneself
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Liza Deischer: I see what you mean Eiza
Liza Deischer: and that is what is keeping me here
Liza Deischer: this is a great group
Liza Deischer: but still I'm a little concerned
Liza Deischer: and I didnt want it to be unsaid
Liza Deischer: hi Cal
Eliza Madrigal: Bertram and I had a conversation like this a few months ago...
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Stevenaia
Eliza Madrigal: remember Bert?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Foxtree Gorbunov: Lost Steve
Liza Deischer: he steve
Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry
Bertram Jacobus: about vows eliza ?
Bertram Jacobus: hi steve :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: neer lost, I'm always right where I am
Eliza Madrigal: about traditional guru/student model and PaB
Foxtree Gorbunov: good point
Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. this and very similar topics happen quite often here ...
Liza Deischer: it an open group, so many times you start all over again
Eliza Madrigal: It seems to me that there are safeties built into practice in a way... that engaging in exercizes and sharing about them stirs something in our hearts/minds that is its own guide and finds its own balance?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. should be okay
SophiaSharon Larnia: I think I've been starting over every week
Eliza Madrigal: heh, true :) Pema says that's the fun part Liza :)
Liza Deischer: quite right Sophai
Liza Deischer: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: Im not as sure as you are that we can find our own balance
Liza Deischer: the topics we address
Liza Deischer: can be far off from our usual perceptions
Eliza Madrigal: It has seemed to me that every time I say "I'm going back to the beginning" there is a little leap in practice somehow... hah
Liza Deischer: I do agree though
Eliza Madrigal nods... I do hear you Liza...
SophiaSharon Larnia: our usual perceptions have to be examined too
Liza Deischer: that most people who come here
Eliza Madrigal: and I would not say there is no concern
SophiaSharon Larnia: and not just the unusual ones
Liza Deischer: has some kind of practice going on
Foxtree Gorbunov: how do Mickorod
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mickorod
Liza Deischer: hi Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Mick! :)
Eliza Madrigal: and the practice creates a desire for devotion and practice often...
Mickorod Renard: Hiya guys
Liza Deischer: and Im mostly concerned about people who want to know more
Eliza Madrigal: a taste of jumping in
Liza Deischer: but havent foud a practice yet
Bertram Jacobus: heyy mick ! ... :-)
Mickorod Renard: I have no practice Liza
Mickorod Renard: hi Bert :)
Foxtree Gorbunov: well, Liz, for me it is the walk
Foxtree Gorbunov: not if I get to the place
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose for myself, I'm an auto-didactic personality... not sure pab would have resonated had I not been in a good place for it to... if that makes sense... so I figure most are the same
Liza Deischer: true foxtree
Bertram Jacobus: you took vows, but did not find a practise yet liza ? you´re still trying, testing ? ...
Bertram Jacobus: - still ;-)
Liza Deischer: no, I took vows and im practicing
Liza Deischer: but i have a chronic fatigue
Bertram Jacobus: oh. then i got something wrong, sry and thanx
Liza Deischer: and it is very hard to jin my rl group
Bertram Jacobus: what is hard with that ?
Liza Deischer: so, im a bit cut off, so to speak
Mickorod Renard: I am just learning to live,,wierd considering I have been alive for many years
Bertram Jacobus: (so interestimg!)
Liza Deischer: sorry Bert? meaning
Liza Deischer: :) Mick
Foxtree Gorbunov: I with you Mick
Eliza Madrigal: I understand that Liza. By the time my group is meeting I've often physically tired to go.. so little by little.. step by step :)
Liza Deischer: yes
Bertram Jacobus: you said, it´s hard to join your rl group liza ? if i understood right - why ?
Liza Deischer: it two hours, i need to get there
SophiaSharon Larnia understands chronic fatigue
Liza Deischer: and to get home
Liza Deischer: often that is too much
Bertram Jacobus: oh i see
Mickorod Renard: understandable lIZA
Foxtree Gorbunov: oh 4 hours round trip?
Liza Deischer: my concentration can reach about an hour
Eliza Madrigal: SL is an astounding resource in that regard
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is
Liza Deischer: it is

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: and im very happy to found a group where people are open to each other, have respect and consideration
Eliza Madrigal smiles, hoping you mean us :)
Liza Deischer: yes, I do Eliza
Bertram Jacobus: ;-))
Eliza Madrigal giggles. Thank you Liza. We're happy too
Bertram Jacobus: hey ! :-) ara ! :-)
Foxtree Gorbunov: hi Arabella
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
Mickorod Renard: yes, I thought most of my life that it took hard work to learn something worthwhile,,but that doesnt need to be the case,,here at Pab and maybe other kira groups I have picked up heaps just by this casual method of interactiion
arabella Ella: Hiya all
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Liza Deischer: you could be right Mick
Liza Deischer: but you stayed
Liza Deischer: and as you said once before
Liza Deischer: it somehow rubbes of on you
Eliza Madrigal believes nothing is wasted, ultimately... some things are like time-release capsules perhaps :)
Liza Deischer: could be, Eliza
Mickorod Renard: some of the best ways are just going with the flow,,no need to force
Liza Deischer: still I dont like to talk about a topic like Emptiness in just half an hours time
Liza Deischer: or in a casual way
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see
Eliza Madrigal: I respect that very much
Liza Deischer: thank you Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: yes, it does
Eliza Madrigal: though... personally I think that people can learn much from hearing a snippet ... we all start with glimpses...
SophiaSharon Larnia: for me, the discussions are not about emptiness, exactly, but what is filling the emptiness, being as appearance
Liza Deischer: yes but there is a build up
Eliza Madrigal: and sometimes of things we already knew, but maybe in a diff term or another way
Liza Deischer: or used to be in my eyes
Liza Deischer: that is exactly what Im worried about eliza
Liza Deischer: there is a lot of information going around
Liza Deischer: about those topics
Liza Deischer: that isnt rigt
Liza Deischer: right
Eliza Madrigal nods... the concern you have is regard and respect for the preciousness of the teachings
Foxtree Gorbunov: Words abe tearms are a hard thing to understand
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Liza Deischer: If people mix them up
Liza Deischer: they might have a problem
Eliza Madrigal: and then we add to that with typos and various languages...
Bertram Jacobus: but when a group is "gooed" - it can always restore and set right views ...
Liza Deischer: exactly
Foxtree Gorbunov: Time changes words
Liza Deischer: true Bert
Eliza Madrigal: Still, I can only speak from my own experience... which is that PaB has been a wonderful compliment for practice...
Eliza Madrigal: and practice itself
Eliza Madrigal: More than any other angle I've explored it has helped me make those little leaps from learning 'concepts' and 'ideas' to really working with my own life material
Liza Deischer: I see what you mean Eliza, and that is also true
Liza Deischer: and that is exactly what is keeping me here
Eliza Madrigal nods
Liza Deischer: for now :)
Eliza Madrigal: Really good to ask your questions and voice your concerns
Foxtree Gorbunov: But, your still worry about somethinkg Liza
Eliza Madrigal: and a great topic in general too :)
Liza Deischer: well, Im afraid so
Liza Deischer: ....foxtree
Mickorod Renard: it is the liberty to interact,,either way,,that makes it so useful here I think
Eliza Madrigal nods
Calvino Rabeni: Liza is holding a place for an important and subtle personal discrimination, I think
Liza Deischer: but I dont know if I should change my angle
Mickorod Renard: I know we all have diferent upbringings,,along with maybe some faiths or not..
Liza Deischer: or that I really feel that it isnt okay to me
Liza Deischer: I don't know what you mean exactly Cal
Eliza Madrigal thinks it gets clearer with time...
Foxtree Gorbunov: No one can get into the head and heart of a nother person
Liza Deischer: I think so too Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Liza Deischer: bu tif Id hadnt been talking about it
Liza Deischer: Im afraid I would have been gone
Liza Deischer: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Calvino Rabeni: I mean there is an ssue about whether it is right for you - and that decision cannot be rushed or pushed
Eliza Madrigal: We can explore the 'space between', Fox :)
Calvino Rabeni: It reminds me of personal decisions of mine in the past
Liza Deischer: so thats why I have talked about it with Pema
Eliza Madrigal thinks she might be using the phrase more than Eos lately..hah
Liza Deischer: and I am glad that we can talk about it now
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Liza Deischer: now I understand you Cal
Liza Deischer: and you're right
Liza Deischer: sorry Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Liza, have you been to a session of Stim's yet?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh.. 'the space between'
Liza Deischer: ah
Liza Deischer: once
Calvino Rabeni: A question like, for me - should I stay or leave a relationship, with a person, or say, a church

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Liza, I asked because he has some of the same concerns, concerning SL, etc... and at the same time seems to hold those concerns open while working with the medium/pab ...
Liza Deischer: these are important relationships, yes
Foxtree Gorbunov: Cal, for me it is a question of: I am getting and given what I need form this group (or Person). We all need something as well as to give
Eliza Madrigal: Much to learn and see :)
Eliza Madrigal is going to be quiet now.. heheh
Foxtree Gorbunov: .endless things to learn
Liza Deischer: you could be right Eliza, I found Stim very.....
Liza Deischer: eh...I dont know how to put it
Bertram Jacobus: very ? find a word please ! ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: listening to Liza
Liza Deischer: well, he touched something in me
Liza Deischer: hard to explain though
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay. thanks ! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Liza Deischer: but he felt careful
Bertram Jacobus: sounds very good
Liza Deischer: choosing his words carefully
Foxtree Gorbunov: Well, Liza, it more like you want him touching you.
Liza Deischer: you dont need to go Eliza :)
Liza Deischer: maybe wo
Liza Deischer: so
Eliza Madrigal: hehe... it is just that SL has not helped with my chatterboxedness :)
arabella Ella: :)
Liza Deischer: :)
Liza Deischer: I was just joking
Foxtree Gorbunov: okay
Calvino Rabeni: you feel chatterboxed-in, ELiza?
Mickorod Renard: its helped me become more confident at being a chatterbox
Eliza Madrigal runs right over her own determination to give a link to Pema/Stim discussions : http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Books/..._Play_as_Being
arabella Ella: cool
arabella Ella: ty Eliza
Foxtree Gorbunov: thanks
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: thanks
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey ! :-) fox ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Fox
Fox Monacular: hello everyone
Liza Deischer: hi Fox
Mickorod Renard: Hi Fox
Foxtree Gorbunov: hi...Fox?
Bertram Jacobus: what does chatterboxed mean plase ? i guess, but i´m not sure
SophiaSharon Larnia: someone who talks a lot
arabella Ella: jemand der spricht zu viel
Calvino Rabeni: A joke, but question
arabella Ella: he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay ty :o)
Calvino Rabeni: But finds the mode constricting somehow
Eliza Madrigal: ?
Calvino Rabeni: Habits are srengths, might also be limits
Liza Deischer: I agree Cal, but what do you mean with it
Foxtree Gorbunov: well I must be going
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Foxtree :) Nice to meet you
Liza Deischer: bye foxtree
Foxtree Gorbunov: bye all
Fox Monacular: bye Foxtree
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Foxtree
Mickorod Renard: bye foxtree
arabella Ella: bye Foxtree
Calvino Rabeni: Anyone for "onigokko"?
Fox Monacular: anytime
arabella Ella: yes please :)
Eliza Madrigal: Fox, you missed all my talking... now I've taken a vow of silence... which I keep ignorning :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Patapuf
Liza Deischer: wait a moment
arabella Ella: he he
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pata :)
Fox Monacular: why a vow of silence?
Bertram Jacobus: hehe . i thought already about it cal (!) ... :o)
Liza Deischer: yes, im ready
Eliza Madrigal: was just too chit chattery :)
Calvino Rabeni: onigokko
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: /shakes bert, mick, and ara....
Calvino Rabeni: stop
Calvino Rabeni: pant pant
Eliza Madrigal: la la la
Liza Deischer: that helped
Fox Monacular: :))
Eliza Madrigal: whew, yes
Bertram Jacobus: strange - i hadn´t it worn (!)
arabella Ella loves this energy giving stuff
Bertram Jacobus: onigokko
Bertram Jacobus: ! :o))
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow whats a new SL resident going to think? giggles
Eliza Madrigal: yay!!!!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: woohooo
Bertram Jacobus: loool
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
arabella Ella: well we did onigokko the first time i came to PaB and i was hooked
Mickorod Renard: yipeeeee
Eliza Madrigal: we're soooo coordinated... almost never happens
Bertram Jacobus: yeeehaaa :o)
arabella Ella: i think Moon got it started
Bertram Jacobus: looks beauuuuuutiful ! :-))
Eliza Madrigal giggles wildly
SophiaSharon Larnia: OMG we scared off the newbie
Eliza Madrigal: snownigokko
arabella Ella: he he
Bertram Jacobus: nobody may will stop pethaps today ? ;o)
SophiaSharon Larnia: guffaws
Fox Monacular: ok, now I realize how hangover I really am today

Fox Monacular: stop
Fox Monacular: :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: :)
Fox Monacular: my head is still spinning:) and I was doing so well since morning!:)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Liza Deischer: youre timing to stop was perferct Fox
Fox Monacular: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping during the 90 secs after onigokko.....what a trip...
Liza Deischer: right on the bell
Eliza Madrigal: a true master can onigokko and stop at the same time
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Fox Monacular: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Liza Deischer: Im glad we have been talking about it
Eliza Madrigal: plus probably chit chat and be silent
Liza Deischer: i feel a littble bit lighter
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I'm glad, Liza :) It is an important conversation, for sure
Bertram Jacobus: nice - ty for the photo ! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Sharon!
arabella Ella: wb Mick
SophiaSharon Larnia: anyone anyone else want one?
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Fox Monacular: me too
Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
arabella Ella: yes please
Liza Deischer: so ami
Fox Monacular: thanks
arabella Ella: wow lovely thanks SophiaSharon
Mickorod Renard: sorry,,want what Sophia?
Mickorod Renard: missed it during pc swap
Liza Deischer: its great :)
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Eliza Madrigal: hehe..just read your line about the newbe Sharon... you think so? haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: i do think so, they pof after we started running around
SophiaSharon Larnia: poofed*
Eliza Madrigal: :) Wild Meditators
SophiaSharon Larnia: right?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bertram Jacobus: "dynamic meditation" - like osho´s ... :o)
Bertram Jacobus: (i never did it)
Bertram Jacobus: before :o)
Eliza Madrigal googles
Bertram Jacobus: googles. i read giggles first :o)
Mickorod Renard: oops,,ara has crashed
Liza Deischer: yes it seems to be crashing time
Liza Deischer: first Mick
Mickorod Renard: well..I actually crashed on perpose
Liza Deischer: ah...okay
Mickorod Renard: purpose
Eliza Madrigal: :)You did?!
Eliza Madrigal: Just wanted more 'Hello's?
Liza Deischer: :)
Mickorod Renard: moved to my laptop in a nice cosy sitting room
Eliza Madrigal: oooh
Mickorod Renard: he he
Liza Deischer: thats a valuable reason :)
arabella Ella: sorry crashed
Mickorod Renard: it was pretty cold where I was
Eliza Madrigal: Wb Ara :)
Liza Deischer: wb ara
Calvino Rabeni: Crashes are how computers do a 90 second pause and drop everything
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Liza Deischer: :)
arabella Ella: mine did it with a big PING too
arabella Ella: equivalent of a gong
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
arabella Ella: ah this place is so lovely and peaceful

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I have often thought of what I get from Pab is like a sort of virus scan or something like that,,for my mind..It doesnt mean getting rid of my old concepts..or beliefs..but it helps me run a bit better
Eliza Madrigal: defragmentation!
Mickorod Renard: maybe
arabella Ella: i like your use of 'run' as opposed to 'walk' Mick
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, on the other hand, it also does put in some "noise"
Mickorod Renard: well..sort of move in a smoother way
Calvino Rabeni: Which can be useful
arabella Ella: what sort of noise Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Specifically, not so much new ideas, but familiar ones with unfamiliar spin on them
Calvino Rabeni: but, you know the things that soet of stick in the mind
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: because the make partial sense
arabella Ella: food for thought
Calvino Rabeni: or seem familiar but have something new
Mickorod Renard: the noise is maybe another set of measurements..to gauge things by
Liza Deischer: nes perspective
Calvino Rabeni: that cause you to subconsciously ponder them
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: yes,,hopefully in a useful way Cal
arabella Ella: and i guess we are all 'deep thinkers' ... give that whatever interpretation you wish
Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, have to go - staring at the computer screen gives me a headache:)!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think it is not unwarranted to put faith in the usefulness
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Fox :)
arabella Ella: bye Fox
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, there is no escaping personal responsibility
Liza Deischer: bye Fox
Mickorod Renard: bye Fox..dream well
Bertram Jacobus: bye fox - have a good time
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fox, good to see you.... recover well :)
Fox Monacular: bye everyone! thanks, Eliza, I'll recover soon:)
arabella Ella: i sometimes wonder
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb please i have to take care of something
arabella Ella: are we all striving for something
Liza Deischer: good question
Bertram Jacobus: sometimes more sometimes less i think ara
Eliza Madrigal: yes very
Mickorod Renard: yes..a good question
Liza Deischer: because most methods strive without striving
arabella Ella: perhaps the secret of success lies in where the strving subsides
arabella Ella: equilibrium
Liza Deischer: maybe it is not striving
arabella Ella: searching?
Liza Deischer: maybe it is motivation
arabella Ella: that could be part of it
Liza Deischer: I do know where I come from and why Im doing this, but i have no idea where Im heading
Mickorod Renard: motivation to do what?
Eliza Madrigal: Its a strange thing, I think... openness allows us to hear/resonate, but is not exactly striving...
Liza Deischer: nods
Mickorod Renard: I have had a peek,,and seen that most probs for me are from wanting
arabella Ella: mmmmm .... interestin
Bertram Jacobus: you know why you do this liza !? why ? and doesn´t that mean, that one knows too, where one is heading to ?
Bertram Jacobus: + then
Liza Deischer: maybe
Liza Deischer: but if I look around, I know we can do better
Calvino Rabeni: Mick, I hear that, but I think there is a concern
Liza Deischer: Im for sure I can
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Liza Deischer: So Im more rejecting what I see
Calvino Rabeni: A very large part of our conditioning to be artificial is about what we should and shold not want
Liza Deischer: and have a pretty foggy idea of where Im heading too
Calvino Rabeni: people are also buried with discouragement
Liza Deischer: but the motivation is to get/make it better, one way or the other
Calvino Rabeni: as well as artificial wantws
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure it is quite individual, in as much as its the same (hehe)
Calvino Rabeni: so a question to anwer is, what are the authentic wants
Eliza Madrigal: MMM
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps they are different, maybe non-egoic
Mickorod Renard: yes, thats true calvino, i wouldnt want anyone to become de motivated..just to ask what it is they really want
Liza Deischer: I think there is always egoism
arabella Ella: i guess as Eliza said ... they are individual but there is likely to be lots in common too
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Liza Deischer: but if you get that, it makes it a lot easier
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes you factor it in, so to speak...
Eliza Madrigal: you don't spend all your energy trying to zap it out of existence? (ego)
arabella Ella: could you re state the question you think is central calvino please?
Liza Deischer: you can look your egoism in the face
Bertram Jacobus: "like" to leave - have a good time all - and ty ! :-)
arabella Ella: nite Bert
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bert! Nice scarf
Liza Deischer: niet Bert
SophiaSharon Larnia: Am leaving too, bye all :))
Bertram Jacobus: ty all :-))
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :) Thank You
Calvino Rabeni: the question is about beling alive and energetic, - wants are part of that
Liza Deischer: nite Bert (i wont tell you what that word means in Dutch)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Liza Deischer: bye Sophia
Calvino Rabeni: to discriminate in that area which are the "true" ones
Mickorod Renard: bye
Calvino Rabeni: and which are imposed by conditioning
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: interesting
Eliza Madrigal nods.. yes what are we making our choices out of?
arabella Ella: i think we all have lots of good intentions
arabella Ella: but then we are sometimes weak when faced with certain RL choices
Eliza Madrigal nods
arabella Ella: which often bring in our 'conditioning'

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: (and factor it in as you said, Eliza responding very late)
Eliza Madrigal: the consistency of PaB's availability, and the company/conversation we seem to cultivate here, has helped me to be softer and make choices in a less reactive way I think.. still some tough ones to go
arabella Ella: :)
Liza Deischer: sounds great Eliza
Liza Deischer: looking inwards, means that you no longer can put your anger, longings or whatever on other people
Liza Deischer: in my perspective that is
arabella Ella nods
Eliza Madrigal: and its definitely about intention, Ara, I so agree with you... setting our hearts
Mickorod Renard: I personaly have found that I was cluttered with so many wants that I became stiffled..or blinded
Mickorod Renard: choked up
Calvino Rabeni: false wants then - not essential to you
Liza Deischer: the wanting part is difficult
Mickorod Renard: yes Cal
arabella Ella: the thing is if we reflect for a short while on what we really need ... there is very little really
Calvino Rabeni: letting those go can make room for the real ones
Liza Deischer: nods
Mickorod Renard: yes Ara
Mickorod Renard: or at least get it in perspective
Eliza Madrigal nods... we can learn to be satisfied by appreciating everything
Eliza Madrigal: a kind of sublime nourishment
arabella Ella: but we are 'conditioned' as Calvino said ... to want more ... to consume ... to be jealous of what others possess ... unfortunately
Liza Deischer: and live in the now
Calvino Rabeni: little needs as defined by external objects
Mickorod Renard: like clearing the weeds in the garden helps the flowers grow
Liza Deischer: we have a problem facing death
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: but in the "internal" world it may be endless
Liza Deischer: puting it of with wanting
Liza Deischer: thinking it goes on forever
arabella Ella: well Mick we could look at our selves as a garden needing care and nourishment ... but no excess
Liza Deischer: or thinking we can make things going on forever
Eliza Madrigal: tricking ourselves, Liza... 'new" stuff
Mickorod Renard: or even the reverse,,wanting to get before u die
arabella Ella: yes Lisa i think that is one of the biggest difficulties in this life ... which you just verbalised
Calvino Rabeni: wanting experienced as not-having - is different than wanting experienced as becoming fulfilled
arabella Ella: please say more Cal
Liza Deischer: if I think of 'wanting' I think of something I wanna get or what I think I need
Calvino Rabeni: say you like beauty, suppose I think "I like and want beauty"
arabella Ella: depends ... could be health, peace and security
Calvino Rabeni: If I think it is to acquire art, I don't havethe beauty and will feel sad
arabella Ella: ah
arabella Ella: (my response was to Liza)
Calvino Rabeni: If I look around and see beuaty, the want is fulfilled and I feel happy
arabella Ella: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,nicely said Cal
Eliza Madrigal: very
Liza Deischer: yes, but Im searching for another word than 'wanting'
Calvino Rabeni: BUT, I think it wouldn't have happened without the want being respected
Liza Deischer: I know what you mean, but I think the process is different
arabella Ella: lovely way of putting it Cal
arabella Ella: how do you see it Liza?
Calvino Rabeni: listening while liza feels for word closer to the meaning
Liza Deischer: eh....thats theproblem....Im still pndering :)
Calvino Rabeni: no hurry
arabella Ella: its ok ... no worries
arabella Ella: but
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: you said you were looking for another word instead of 'wanting'
arabella Ella: did you find one?
arabella Ella: or do you have a word in dutch perhaps?
Liza Deischer: no not yet
Liza Deischer: wanting sounds like reaching
Eliza Madrigal: what about desire
Calvino Rabeni: it is possible to carry that unresolved "searching for right word" feeling for a very long time
Liza Deischer: there's a lot of passion in desire
arabella Ella: wanting includes possession doesnt it
Calvino Rabeni: probably a good skill, the carrying of it
Liza Deischer: :) true Cal
Eliza Madrigal: Hm Ara, sometimes we just want to experience something
Mickorod Renard: Lust?..Crave?
Mickorod Renard: long for?
Liza Deischer: no it is more hee and now
Liza Deischer: not wanting
Liza Deischer: experiencing it
Mickorod Renard: absorb
Eliza Madrigal: inhale
Liza Deischer: thats a good one Eliza
arabella Ella: like health ... we may want it ... we may have it ... but in the here and now we appreciate it
Liza Deischer: breath in and breathing it out
Liza Deischer: something like that
Mickorod Renard: become one with?
Liza Deischer: being it
Liza Deischer: hmmmm, didnt want to use that word :)

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: breathing, experiencing, acting, something like that?
Eliza Madrigal smiles... good place... Appreciation has those connotations
Mickorod Renard: flying with the six winds?
Liza Deischer: six?
Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,I have to leave
Liza Deischer: bye Mick
Mickorod Renard: have fun
arabella Ella: nite Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal: RL is pulling at my sleeve too...
arabella Ella: i must go too nearly midnight here now
arabella Ella: nite all
Liza Deischer: yes andIm pushing for a headache
arabella Ella: thanks for interesting chat
Eliza Madrigal: Very nice session, Thank you everyone :)
Liza Deischer: thanks to you too
Liza Deischer: see you all