2009.12.20 13:00 - Openness and dropping

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    This conversation began, after intros which I have deleted, with some focus on what elements draw us away from the clarity we occasionally or frequently attain.  Soon the conversation meandered as well into intellectual considerations which to my mind began to get somewhat afar from the direct experience we strive for.  So after the first half hour or so, I suggest we try to focus on our experience in the pause, but added the focus of 'what we can drop and what we cannot drop' thus asking for us to watch as we drop.   A question focusses the discussion which continues long after I have to leave.  Grateful to Cal for patching in that last portion of the discussion.

    Maxine Walden: maybe best to say sometimes I feel like a teenager and sometimes much older...how is that for a kind of dodge?
    Mickorod Renard: and be late
    Liza Deischer: I actually do read maps very well, thank you :)
    Mickorod Renard: my friend always says,,he only feels as old as the woman he feels
    Maxine Walden: Liza, we may be being goaded a bit...
    Liza Deischer: I know Max
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Maxine Walden: maybe we can turn to PaB issues, thoughts, concerns...?
    Mickorod Renard: I notice that like a manic depresed person..I imagine..i get moments of great understandding,,followed by times of no understanding
    Mickorod Renard: but as time goes on,,I am becoming more clear
    Maxine Walden: very common, I think, Mick. ...ah, yes more clear with experience?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Maxine Walden: others find a similar experience as Mick describes?
    Mickorod Renard: I am feeling much airier now...and am hoping I acan sustain long periods of a more lieberal seeing mind
    Maxine Walden: yes, hope that is so for you Mick. Do you have some thought, Mick or anyone,about why we might feel so unclear at times?
    Liza Deischer: hi Lila
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Lila
    Lila Darkmatter: Hello :)
    Mickorod Renard: are u ok Lila,,have you been here before?
    Lila Darkmatter: Thank you Mick, yes :)
    Mickorod Renard: ahh great
    Mickorod Renard: in answer to your question max..I am not sure why
    Mickorod Renard: breaking the mould that one finds oneself in takes time
    Maxine Walden: yes, so much familiar drawing us back...
    Mickorod Renard: peeling off the layers of lenses
    Calvino Rabeni: It is an excellent question
    Mickorod Renard: I find there are several elements of this too
    Liza Deischer: I try to give up hope
    Liza Deischer: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Mickorod Renard: being relaxed is good Liza,,but having confidence is good too
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wol
    Lila Darkmatter: Hello Wol
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Wol
    Aubergine Mint: Hi Wol
    Aubergine Mint: how are you?
    Wol Euler: much better, thanks
    Mickorod Renard: are you better?
    Liza Deischer: hope is something different than confidence to me
    Mickorod Renard: yeaaaa
    Maxine Walden: Wol, we are just wondering among other things about the elements that draw us away from the clarity we gain sometimes
    Wol Euler: ah
    Liza Deischer: welcom back Wol
    Mickorod Renard: I think society today has , like a dent in the bed,,formed something that is so easy to roll back into
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: a nice image
    Calvino Rabeni: :) metaphor
    Calvino Rabeni: And society has buried some treasures
    Maxine Walden: interesting image...almost like a gravitational pull
    Mickorod Renard: its imposible to change the mattress..
    Maxine Walden: buried treasures, Cal?
    Mickorod Renard: but we may have to live/sleep on the edge
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, you can dig them back up
    Mickorod Renard: but the edge may be better for ones posture
    Calvino Rabeni: with a little shovel work
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Calvino Rabeni: buddha-mind is a buried treasure
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Liza Deischer: how do you shovel Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: or I might say, that which is symbolized by an infant jesus at this time of year
    Calvino Rabeni: Innocence and potential
    Calvino Rabeni: Buried under layers of cynicism and mistrust
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Wol Euler: I infer that you meant "buried" in the sense of an avalanche, not intentionally?
    Calvino Rabeni: and rules and recriminations
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, in that metaphor, some people might do things that bury the treasure more
    Calvino Rabeni: not just an act of nature
    Calvino Rabeni: Or we bury it in ourself
    Calvino Rabeni: LIke the psychological theory of ego-defenses
    Calvino Rabeni: Trying to protext the treasure inside
    Calvino Rabeni: From a world that appears hard
    Maxine Walden: For me it feels useful to consider that there are states of mind we all know and at times inhabit which resist change, growth and the new...resort more to 'tradition' with perhaps cynicism for any change
    Wol Euler nods.
    Maxine Walden: the 'gravitational' pull toward the familiar
    Wol Euler: and towards the norm. We are herd animals, we like to be like each other
    Calvino Rabeni: Tradition can be a help and a support, as can ritual. I think of it as a distiniction between living intelligence and dead intelligence
    Calvino Rabeni: we have some choice about those states of mind
    Calvino Rabeni: that you mentioned, max
    Calvino Rabeni: somewhat limited choice though
    Calvino Rabeni: some are available in the moment, but others through practice
    Maxine Walden: agree, Cal, and sometimes more choice than other times, perhaps, depending upon how balanced (or not) we feel
    Maxine Walden: or do you have another thought?
    Calvino Rabeni: over time, practice can make more choice available
    Calvino Rabeni: that is, I believe cultivation works
    Mickorod Renard: I do too
    Calvino Rabeni: but one is aways poised on the edge of what is possible
    Calvino Rabeni: insignts are ephemeral
    Calvino Rabeni: If clung to, they turn into something else

    My wondering about haveing some direct experience during the next pause

    Maxine Walden: wondering as we talk if we can think of having a bit of a practice during the next pause...maybe around some aspect of these issues...
    Calvino Rabeni: I will take any proposal :)
    Liza Deischer: thats what i mean with letting go of hope
    Mickorod Renard: I think that is why we sould remind ourselves that PaB is an exploration, as much as anything else
    Mickorod Renard: not an indoctrination
    Calvino Rabeni: Letting go of the hope for an insight to be permanent - that makes sense
    Liza Deischer: yes, exactly
    Calvino Rabeni: The risk is, when you change it to make it permanent, it loses is life and is no longer true
    Calvino Rabeni: It gets attached to the hope, whereas, in the beginning, it was free
    Maxine Walden: (trying to offer some focus for the next pause): wonder if we can try to observe during next pause, what we are aware of being able to let go of and what not, what seems to hang around .
    Maxine Walden: Might be a little difficult, but I am trying to have us focus and bring to our discussion some direct experience...how does that sound?
    Calvino Rabeni: sounds good
    Liza Deischer: ok
    Mickorod Renard: brb
    Maxine Walden: My understanding of our PaB sessions is to try to draw upon our direct experience perhaps even more than our intellectual considerations...
    Maxine Walden: we need to have some framework, something of a focus, but these exercises in direct experience help to balance the often very keen intellectual side...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, an act of balance, to give it a chance
    Maxine Walden: exactly, Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: put it first for a while
    Maxine Walden: right...
    Lila Darkmatter: when i drop my role as a 'worker' or whatever, i don't stop working, so maybe while doing pab, ideas about pab sometimes need to be dropped and just play :)
    Maxine Walden: interesting, Lila
    Lila Darkmatter has obviously been here before
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Wol Euler: good to see you were taking notes.
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ara
    Mickorod Renard: hi ara
    Maxine Walden: About to go into the pause, Ara, and try to observe what we can 'let go of' and what may seem more tenacious or 'hanging around'
    arabella Ella: ah
    Maxine Walden: trying to focus some on our direct experience
    arabella Ella: yes
    Maxine Walden: So, what is sharable from the pause?
    Maxine Walden: What experiences?

    And Aubergine asks a good question:

    Aubergine Mint: what does it mean to "let go of" during such a short time?
    arabella Ella: well i dont know how appropriate this is but here goes
    arabella Ella: i had to deal with a small family health emergency tonite
    arabella Ella: and during the pause i realised
    arabella Ella: how easy it is to let go of practically everything ... drop literally everything ... when such emergencies occur
    Wol Euler nods.
    arabella Ella: everything else fades into obscurity however important it previously seemed to be
    Liza Deischer: thats interesting
    Lila Darkmatter: yes it is
    Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes, ara.
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    arabella Ella: it is just a reflection now during the pause over my experience these past couple of hours
    Maxine Walden: yes, and maybe Aubergiine your question may be answered by some of the responses...
    Mickorod Renard: but also it can work visa versa,,over that particular crisis,,a sort of stepping back,,and a chance to viwe from a new perspective
    Calvino Rabeni: For me "let go of" means I have an idea, "this is what I do, or am" and give it up. LIke, I will not need to continue with something. And I am still "I" without it.
    Maxine Walden: Did that occur for you during the pause, Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, that is what happens.
    Calvino Rabeni: There is odd thing about it
    Aubergine Mint: is it just that you stop thinking about who you are?
    Calvino Rabeni: The things appear just before they can be dropped - so I barely see the things I "cannot drop"
    Wol Euler: Aubergine, you'll probably get as many diferent answers as there are people here, of how the dropping actually gets done :)
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a part of pheno also, that I don't really "get"
    Lila Darkmatter: I'm an alt today, of regular 'pab-er' so I thought about identity within context and what others draw from a person v what one expects from themself.. what it means to shift gears/boundaries
    Liza Deischer: The way you put it almost sounds like you are experiencing in toughs
    Liza Deischer: thoughts
    arabella Ella: for me Aubergine when someone needs my support urgently I just stop thinking who i am, yes
    Aubergine Mint: nothing actually drops, you're still who you are
    Wol Euler: that is a kind of flow state, isn't it, Ara?
    Wol Euler: you become entirely one with what needs to happen *right now*
    Lila Darkmatter: who you are isn't caught up in who you think you are then maybe
    arabella Ella: yes Wol and it feels so strange to drop all work deadlines for example which seemed to be so pressing
    Calvino Rabeni: Thoughts are ore can be, a direct experience too - it is not just "perception"
    Maxine Walden: such a change of perspective, of what matters...all of a sudden
    arabella Ella: @Lila ... not sure what you mean ... who you are ... who you think you are?
    Calvino Rabeni: You ahve a direct experience of having thoughts
    Maxine Walden: yes, Cal, that may be
    Lila Darkmatter: well, you kind of stop thinking, in an emergency... out of 'your head' anyway... attention shifts outward
    Liza Deischer: true Cal
    Wol Euler: Aubergine, it probably sounds as though people go into the pause with something in mind, say an aspect of themselves that they have identified, and try to drop that one thing
    Liza Deischer: but I would like to know what that experience is about (and maybe Im not very clear :))
    Wol Euler: whereas at least for myself, I try to do nearly the opposite: I imagine literally letting go, opening my hands, breathing out, expelling all conscious thoughts
    Maxine Walden: (I have about 2 min before I have to leave. Just to mention beforehand)
    Wol Euler: and then I often notice that something I had thought was part of me is missing.
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I try that too wol
    Wol Euler: at least for me, the dropping is done in retrospect. I see that a piece has gone, and think "ah, I dropped the idea that it is uncomfortably cold today"
    arabella Ella: i find pauses as both aspects of reflection and relaxation ... as a release in both cases
    Mickorod Renard: I find I am able to make observations ,,just observations,,and listenings etc,,without attaching thoughts
    Calvino Rabeni: could work either way apparently
    Aubergine Mint: sounds like a shift in attention

    I have to go to another meeting and so leave, but as the log illustrates the conversation continues in many interesting and diverse ways

    Maxine Walden: (don't want to interrupt this wonderful conversation; will just go; see you all later)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Calvino Rabeni: bye Max
    Mickorod Renard: closing down the recieving noise of thoughts
    Lila Darkmatter: bye Maxine
    Mickorod Renard: bye Max
    Wol Euler: snap, I was jus going to talk about "signal to noise", Mick
    Aubergine Mint: so like a meditation
    Calvino Rabeni: you get to subtler types of thoughts, ones with less commotion
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Wol Euler: there is information (call it that) all around us, some of it is noise and some is signal. Basically we decide where along the line the dividing marker is
    Mickorod Renard: maybe just a flow in of subtle information,,without self imposed analasis
    Liza Deischer: but there is an interesting question in Aubergines question
    Calvino Rabeni: If I listento the sound of the computer fan, it is signal
    Liza Deischer: what can we drop or not
    Calvino Rabeni: noise is not in the world
    Liza Deischer: what is personality
    Liza Deischer: ?
    Liza Deischer: (hmm maybe i open a new discussion here :))
    Wol Euler: it's a good question.
    Calvino Rabeni: Is a good question
    Aubergine Mint: don't think you can ever stop analysing stimulus that comes to you unless you are unconscious
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: in my experience you can do that
    Calvino Rabeni: I thik it is talked about in some sessions
    Wol Euler: perhaps put it this way: you don't stop noticing, but you can stop assigning a value to what you see
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I often feel unconcious
    arabella Ella: Liza i think it may be better to ask what the self is ... rather than personality
    Aubergine Mint: I think your unconscious keeps working
    Calvino Rabeni: you wouldn't notice it if you were :)
    Lila Darkmatter: I'm not sure that could ever be mapped out ... one just has to see? Like Wol said sometimes you drop something, but maybe its something that you thought was you... then you think "Hm, must not have been intrinsic.. or is more malleable than I thought?"
    Aubergine Mint: you may just shift your attention away from it
    Liza Deischer: wel I was trying to avoid that word Ara
    Aubergine Mint: or towards it
    Liza Deischer: but maybe youre right
    Mickorod Renard: maybe I just act unconcious to get out of doing the pots
    Wol Euler: he
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    arabella Ella: i personally think it is emotions, feelings, sensations, habits and other such aspects of the self that one could drop if one wishes to do so
    Liza Deischer: the labels
    Lila Darkmatter: hmm
    Calvino Rabeni: I knew a man wh would go to the dentist and get the drill, without anesthetic, and he would "drop" pain.
    arabella Ella: to some extent perhaps a bit like the expression ... mind over matter
    Mickorod Renard: I have managed to shut out pain that way Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: I didn't have the courage for that test :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Lila Darkmatter: yes people learn techniques in natural childbirth also, but sometimes it is more like putting it 'over there'
    Mickorod Renard: I do it often with my partners cooking
    Aubergine Mint: gtg bye all
    Lila Darkmatter: haha Mick
    Mickorod Renard: nite Aubb
    Lila Darkmatter: Bye Aubergine
    Wol Euler: bye aubergine, take care. Happy holidays
    Liza Deischer: nite Aubergine
    arabella Ella: nite Aubergene
    Aubergine Mint: you too everyone
    Mickorod Renard: gosh,,is that the time
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Wol Euler: I should go too, I'm flying tomorrow morning.
    Liza Deischer: time flies when youre having fun :)
    Mickorod Renard: oh yea,,have u cover yet Wol,,for the sessions?
    Wol Euler: paradoxically it seldom flies when you are flying
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Wol Euler: not that I know of, Mick. (looks hopefully)
    Mickorod Renard: have a nice trip
    Lila Darkmatter: Night Wol. Happy Holidays :)
    Mickorod Renard: are they the 13;00 hour sessions?
    Wol Euler: 1am Friday mornings
    Wol Euler: oh hang on, Pema#s taken them
    Mickorod Renard: mmm cant do those
    Wol Euler: just remembered.
    Liza Deischer: bye Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Wol Euler: goodngiht all, be happy and do lots of good dropping
    Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
    Liza Deischer: night Yaku
    Lila Darkmatter: Night Ya
    Mickorod Renard: bye wol
    Lila Darkmatter: Ara, is everything okay now?
    arabella Ella: well ... difficult to tell ... we must wait for tomorrow
    Mickorod Renard: lila
    Lila Darkmatter: oh, I certainly hope all will be fine
    Lila Darkmatter: yes Mick? :)
    arabella Ella: thanks for your concern :)
    Mickorod Renard: sorry, just slipped
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I had best get home
    Lila Darkmatter: sl animals to feed?
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I can feel my concentration slipping
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,sl cats , dolphins birds
    Lila Darkmatter: haha
    arabella Ella: quite a zoo then Mick
    Mickorod Renard: plants to water
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    arabella Ella: anyone there experiencing RL snow at the moment ... just curious
    Liza Deischer: we had a lot of snow today
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Mickorod Renard: lots?
    Liza Deischer: between 10 and 15 cm
    arabella Ella: well it is really cold here tonight temperature will go down to 8 celsius
    Mickorod Renard: I heard amsterdam airport was blocked
    Lila Darkmatter: brrrr
    Liza Deischer: and therewas already snow on the streets
    arabella Ella: but apparently in poland they had minus 33
    Liza Deischer: could well be
    Mickorod Renard: lovely
    Liza Deischer: I believe some plains got out
    arabella Ella: sounds like you may have a white christmas then Liza
    Liza Deischer: but other airports were blocked
    Mickorod Renard: I guess we shud be grateful with what we get
    Liza Deischer: I hope so
    Liza Deischer: but it is hard to get around
    arabella Ella: yes
    Liza Deischer: have been driving yesterday
    Liza Deischer: I beter could have been walking
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: scarey to drive in snow
    Liza Deischer: faster that way
    Mickorod Renard: I cant help thinking of the doom scenarios of global warming etc
    Liza Deischer: if you take it slow
    Liza Deischer: bye Mick
    arabella Ella: depends how far you would have to walk
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, mick, I will think of doom for a couple days :)
    Liza Deischer: well that could be a problem with Christmas
    Mickorod Renard: bye,,hope to see u all soon
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Lila Darkmatter: bye Mick :)
    Calvino Rabeni: take care
    arabella Ella: i must go too ... nite everyone
    Lila Darkmatter: Night Ara :)
    Calvino Rabeni: fly well, arabella
    Liza Deischer: nite Ara
    Liza Deischer: you got my IM CAL?
    Lila Darkmatter: I should go also, have spent too much time in front of the computer screen today... time for a walk I think
    Calvino Rabeni: SOmetimes the IM tabs are hidden, I dont see them
    Calvino Rabeni: Glad to have you here
    Liza Deischer: bye Lila
    Lila Darkmatter: Bye for now Liza and Calvino :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Play well, Lila
    Calvino Rabeni: Lila means play
    Liza Deischer: I hope I didnt effend you, didnt mean too
    Calvino Rabeni: not at all :) not sure when you meant
    Liza Deischer: okay, well we didnt got around the 'thinking' part anymore
    Liza Deischer: sometimes I don't know how things are received, because I cant see the body-language
    Calvino Rabeni: it can stress one's confidence
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: Im a very bodylanguage person :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Kino type
    Liza Deischer: sorry ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hopefully SL medium won't distort things
    Calvino Rabeni: Kinesthetic - word for someone who thinks with movements
    Liza Deischer: okay, yes thats probably me
    Calvino Rabeni: Probably me also
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: speaking is a translation of that other closer thing
    Liza Deischer: yes, I know exactly what you mean
    Liza Deischer: and you said it nice too
    Liza Deischer: not many people would understand that
    Calvino Rabeni: it is buried treasure
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Liza Deischer: but I understand the thinking part better now
    Liza Deischer: it only looks that way, because youre 'translating'
    Calvino Rabeni: I find it hard to understand, somehow, how many people believe that "thinking" is nothing but talking to oneself in words silently
    Liza Deischer: yes, hardly think in words myself
    Liza Deischer: only when Im analysing
    Liza Deischer: and prepair for a discussion or meeting
    Liza Deischer: but now I understand
    Liza Deischer: but the things you say have a 'larger'  background
    Calvino Rabeni: the conventional meanings are pretty limited
    Calvino Rabeni: like, thinking, intuition, perception
    Calvino Rabeni: the larger background is - for want of better word - big mind
    Calvino Rabeni: and all those activities mix together
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: I 'heard' the larger content, but didnt realise
    Liza Deischer: it is nice to meet another Kino type
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Did you go to the pheno class?
    Calvino Rabeni: I forgot if U were in the room there
    Liza Deischer: yes, and I asked you about the email-group remember?
    Calvino Rabeni: Now I do
    Calvino Rabeni: Did you do the "epoche" exercise ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I thought the list would have a place to write reports
    Calvino Rabeni: but did not find it
    Liza Deischer: no I didnt yet
    Liza Deischer: I assume the same thing
    Calvino Rabeni: Hopefully there will be some data to compare with others
    Calvino Rabeni: But what I think is going on, people may lack the confidence to dive into something that is not well-defined in advance
    Calvino Rabeni: which it does not appear to be
    Calvino Rabeni: So I found myself fishing for hints from the teachers
    Calvino Rabeni: Then just went ahead and did it
    Liza Deischer: yes, most people ask for the exact thing
    Liza Deischer: want to put a label on it
    Calvino Rabeni: sure, want a map ahead of time
    Liza Deischer: but because I dont think that way
    Liza Deischer: it took me a long time to understand
    Calvino Rabeni: can you say what understanding you came around to?
    Liza Deischer: to understand why people ask so many questions
    Liza Deischer: to understand why people didnt understand me
    Liza Deischer: now I see what Im doing
    Liza Deischer: If something is put up
    Liza Deischer: I associate very easily
    Liza Deischer: not being aware of how I do that or what is going on
    Liza Deischer: but coming up with something that feels, like it fits
    Liza Deischer: but then translating it to others is sometimes very hard
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Liza Deischer: it happens to me a lot that i say: that's what i meant an hour ago :)
    Calvino Rabeni: because it evolved since then?
    Liza Deischer: In a way i think faster (and also different, seeing things sometimes others dont see), but in translating it and putting it into word, Im much slower
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand that
    Liza Deischer: when i have a meeting
    Liza Deischer: a lot of times I think after the meeting: something is fishy here, or I know the answer, but cant translate is
    Liza Deischer: ask me a couple of days later, and you get the whole story
    Liza Deischer: vere annoying sometimes
    Liza Deischer: you recognize that?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes exactly
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It is about, thinking with the "implicit" meaning
    Calvino Rabeni: Every situation carries a lot of meaning, wrapped up in a bundle
    Calvino Rabeni: You can think fast with that, cover a lot, but it takes time to unpack
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, the unpacking isn't necessary to do good thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: but it seems necessary to communicate
    Calvino Rabeni: especially if limiited to verbal communicaiton
    Calvino Rabeni: as we seem to be in SL
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: But in RL there are so many other channels to use
    Calvino Rabeni: They are available,but I think awareness is still an issue in using them
    Liza Deischer: quite right
    Liza Deischer: I try not to unpack too much anymore
    Liza Deischer: because sometimes it takes me out of the process
    Calvino Rabeni: For me, I try to maintain both processes at once
    Liza Deischer: and awareness doesn't mean thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: like remembering a dream
    Liza Deischer: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: thinking can happen in awareness but not the other way around
    Liza Deischer: yes, true
    Calvino Rabeni: Many people act as if "thinking" interferes with "awareness"
    Calvino Rabeni: that is not intrinsically true, but it happens for people
    Liza Deischer: but I also noticed a problem with feeling (movement so you will) -thinking
    Liza Deischer: to translate, I need to take a few steps away from myself
    Liza Deischer: I did that too much in the past
    Liza Deischer: we dont have a natural defense for our true feelings
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps one can be made
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have other familiar modes of experiential thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: like improvisational dance
    Calvino Rabeni: or something movement oriented where new patterns are created?
    Liza Deischer: i play the piano
    Calvino Rabeni: Improvise?
    Liza Deischer: no, im afraid not
    Liza Deischer: but new patters occur for me in feeling the music
    Liza Deischer: and express it
    Liza Deischer: it sounds different every time
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand
    Liza Deischer: Adn I do like to dance
    Calvino Rabeni: I was talking to a friend about dance - improvisational
    Liza Deischer: :)
    Liza Deischer: and in dance I improvise
    Calvino Rabeni: she said - I know how to "do tango" but the improvisation type seems frightening
    Liza Deischer: i read in someones profile that she would like to dance in rl as well as in sl
    Liza Deischer: i thought: i would like it the other way around
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't "get" sl dancing, because It doesn't feel like anything to watch.  Maybe I could imagine into it?  OR actually get up and be physical/
    Calvino Rabeni: People improvise within forms, as you do with the piano
    Calvino Rabeni: I think that freedom can be extended to bigger things
    Liza Deischer: true
    Calvino Rabeni: Or wherever one finds freedom in experience
    Liza Deischer: true, but getting back to where we came from: its hard to find a balance (it is for me) between my own way of 'thinking' and communication with others
    Liza Deischer: and not getting me ou of my own proces at the same time
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand.
    Calvino Rabeni: The activities people engage in are compartmentalized into mental categories that keep them separate
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe artists play with that
    Calvino Rabeni: and mix them more
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: I think so
    Calvino Rabeni: but overall, it is fun to let them merge or connect them a little
    Calvino Rabeni: You can make a bridge, so there isn't a sharp divide between them
    Calvino Rabeni: I think that is one of the functions of meditation
    Liza Deischer: meditation is a tool I think that suites people like us
    Liza Deischer: looking at the clock
    Liza Deischer: it is midnight down here
    Liza Deischer: so I need to go
    Calvino Rabeni: Good talking to you Liza
    Liza Deischer: yes, good talking to you Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
    Liza Deischer: bye

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core