2009.12.03 01:00 - Doing the rounds

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo.

When I arrived Calvino was already there and we were joined by Geoff quite quickly, who I hadn't met before. It was an interesting discussion but a little all over the place because we were all kind of responding to various things we each said but never quite connecting... :)

Tarmel Udimo: hello Geoff and Calvino
Geoff Baily: Hello Calvino and Tarmel
Calvino Rabeni: Hello!
Tarmel Udimo: Geoff, have you been here before?
Geoff Baily: Yes several times now
Tarmel Udimo: ok great!
Geoff Baily: ;)
Tarmel Udimo: Do either of you have a topic?
Geoff Baily: On Becoming?
Tarmel Udimo: yes... or playing:)
Geoff Baily: ;)
Geoff Baily: For me it helps to keep the idea of continual renewal in my mind
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Geoff Baily: Every second all is new and fresh
Geoff Baily: Its as if there is a dimension of 'creativity' one can tap into
Geoff Baily: ranging from creation at one end to complete destruction at the other
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Geoff Baily: One can learn to move along it perhaps
Calvino Rabeni: Geoff, for the pause, can we look into that?
Tarmel Udimo: you mean being in the present moment or more than that:)
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: DO you have a suggestion about how it might be done?

--BELL--

Geoff Baily: not easy, takes time I think and we may all find different routes to the feeling I describe
Calvino Rabeni: how about you, do you have some way you go about it?
Geoff Baily: 10 years os so of different meditation practices ;)
Tarmel Udimo: yes, well that's essentially the purpose of the 9-secs. By pausing even for 9 secs, its opens up the moment and if you can stay with it, then you are in the present moment
Geoff Baily: the 9 sec fits well for me
Calvino Rabeni: Might you describe one "in action" related to creativity?
Tarmel Udimo: I guess the question is - why do we wish to remain aware and living in the present moment?
Calvino Rabeni: Or is it indirect?
Geoff Baily: but better as 90 sec every 15 mins for me
Geoff Baily: Creativity I see as a fundamental dimension of the multiverse
Calvino Rabeni: I am right now asking more "how" than "why"
Tarmel Udimo: Ok
Geoff Baily: it is continuous and antedates the Big Bang
Tarmel Udimo: what does - creativity?
Geoff Baily: it is an essence, words are insufficient..........
Geoff Baily: void;.....)
Geoff Baily: in a sense the big bang is happening each minute , second if we could see far enough 'back'
Geoff Baily: but that is using our words to descrtibe something that is indescribable!!!!!!
Tarmel Udimo: so before the big bang was a creative essense?
Calvino Rabeni: Don't worry, communication does not need description. Can you accept that as a useful working hypothesis?
Geoff Baily: there is always a Creative Essence. It is fundamental.
Geoff Baily: working hypothesis ;)
Geoff Baily: for me.
Calvino Rabeni: I think - IMHO - part of what we are up to here is phenomenology, which implies becoming better observers of experience
Tarmel Udimo: Ok I can accept that there would have had to be something before the big bang
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Which is different than explaining or making theories
Tarmel Udimo: well scientists have 'seen' back into the universe and expereinced the big bang calvino
Calvino Rabeni: No doubt, but what can we do with our own experience?
Geoff Baily: perhaps our dimension of time was created at the big bang, so the concept of 'before the BB' is 'difficult' to use??
Geoff Baily: that is where on can get to Nonduality
Geoff Baily: *one
Calvino Rabeni: Geoff, how do you recognize nondual experience when you have it?
Calvino Rabeni: Tarmel, how do you know when you are dreaming?
Tarmel Udimo: well the buddhists say we are dreaming all the time until we wake up.
Tarmel Udimo: and there are times when I feel more 'awake ' than others

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Sorry I don't mean to put pressure on you, just interested in immediate experience
Geoff Baily: Words are difficult. Buddists might use 'void'
Tarmel Udimo: how about you Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: How do you, tarmel, specifically, know when you are having a lucid dream?
Calvino Rabeni: Sure, I will get to that it is ony fair :)
Geoff Baily: 'i' do not have a nondual experience because there ceases to be an 'I'
Tarmel Udimo: I agree with you Geoff
Geoff Baily: There 'is' a nondual experience I feel
Geoff Baily: felt!!**
Calvino Rabeni: So does it happen "sometmes" or "continuously" to the not-you?
Geoff Baily: There 'is' a nondual feeling felt!!! Its sooo difficult even now to hold this
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Geoff Baily: Everything is always happening
Calvino Rabeni: When you practice, it become more some how when you are not meditating? Some people report that.
Calvino Rabeni: Is there a shift in exerience through practice, outside that?
Geoff Baily: there ceases to be a distinction between 'meditation' and 'nonmeditation'
Calvino Rabeni: (sorry, my kbd drops chars)
Calvino Rabeni: You live in that now?
Geoff Baily: there is an awarness of awareness i feel
Geoff Baily: try to
Calvino Rabeni: I follow you about that.
Geoff Baily: difficult to manange to do
Calvino Rabeni: My opinion - not accomplished by trying, anyhow
Tarmel Udimo: agree it is not difficult if one doesn't impose conditions on the state of awareness but actually experiences it rather than thinks about it
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Still curious abut lucid dreamig, tarmel. Can we compare notes?
Geoff Baily: let it go, give it away!!
Tarmel Udimo: well castanada talks about lucid dreaming and I believe it to be the same as being aware
Calvino Rabeni: :) i agree Geoff about that
Calvino Rabeni: What is your experience?
Geoff Baily: i am interested in lucid dreaming. Don't know if I have them
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure, ok :)
Geoff Baily: Some can be very real, and 'one' is aware of being a 'dreamer'
Geoff Baily: at least those one remembers!!
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have techniques you use "as dreamer?
Geoff Baily: Write them down
Calvino Rabeni: It takes a certian lucidity to remembr them.
Geoff Baily: The more one writes the more one dreams in my experience
Calvino Rabeni: Geoff, I would say the nondual will help in dream lucidity
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Last night I had one based on PAB
Calvino Rabeni: Not that I did the 9-second pause :)

--BELL--

Geoff Baily: Me too but I have frogotten it
Geoff Baily: Where did the 'frog' come from?
Geoff Baily: In the pool?
Tarmel Udimo: what was your PAB dream Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: thx.
Calvino Rabeni: Typing is very slow...bear wth me
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: I dreamt I was with an "evil" version of a friend
Calvino Rabeni: It was scary
Calvino Rabeni: So I felt my presence (luciity)
Calvino Rabeni: To prove it to myself I decided to do something I know impossible
Calvino Rabeni: So I stood on top of a piece of air
Calvino Rabeni: And thus knew I was dreaming
Calvino Rabeni: So decided to ignore the evil figure.
Tarmel Udimo: so you transformed your dream
Calvino Rabeni: I went elswhere and started to teach someone a physical art - aikido
Geoff Baily: Calvino, how did you 'feel' the evil?
Calvino Rabeni: That was derived from a PAB discussion last night before sleeping
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: (done! I very frustrated with the kbd tonite) :-(
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Evil? The friend acted weird and did bad things to people
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: (details gory but unimportant)
Geoff Baily: I see
Calvino Rabeni: Not like the real man
Calvino Rabeni: When I woke I tried to project myself into the evil one
Tarmel Udimo: so do you feel you worked something out in the dream?

Pema showed up as if in a dream and graced us with his presence for a few mins:)

Tarmel Udimo: hey there pema, I saw you standing behind me:)
Geoff Baily: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: hi Tarmel and Calvino, and nice to meet you Geoff!
Geoff Baily: Nice to meet you
Calvino Rabeni: Dreams are a work in progress, raising consciousness first before"resolving" things - in my experience
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, Pema
Geoff Baily: ;)
Pema Pera: (can only stay for a couple minutes; batteries almost empty; in train from Tokyo airport to Tokyo)
Calvino Rabeni: Where are you?
Calvino Rabeni: Japan.
Tarmel Udimo: just arrived?
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Tarmel Udimo: or leaving?
Pema Pera: arriving
Tarmel Udimo: ahh
Pema Pera: just flew from New York
Tarmel Udimo: nice flight?
Pema Pera: sure
Pema Pera: nothing unusual, which is good :-)
Pema Pera: so I'm close to your time zone again, Tarmel!
Pema Pera: Thanks for your email Geoff
Tarmel Udimo: yes close to the future!
Calvino Rabeni: What is your work in Japan now Pema?
Geoff Baily: thx for reply
Pema Pera: (would love to stay and talk, but alas, no electric outlet in this particular train)
Pema Pera: astronomy, Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Pema Pera: sorry, bfn!
Geoff Baily: have a good trip!!
Tarmel Udimo: bye
Calvino Rabeni: Bye
Calvino Rabeni: Gone. :)
Geoff Baily: Good to meet Pema

And then he was gone...

Tarmel Udimo: When I woke I tried to project myself into the evil one > why did you do this Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Do you know dream work methods? It is standard one.
Tarmel Udimo: oh OK taking the part of all elements in the dream?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, each element is an "I"
Tarmel Udimo: Ok

--BELL--

.....and I looked at the time and had friends coming over and needed to log out... but Calvino and Geoff continued to talk for a few more mins.

Tarmel Udimo: (I am sorry I will have to go)
Tarmel Udimo: Nice talking to you both - I have claimed the log and will post it
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for hosting, good to meet you, Tarmel?
Tarmel Udimo: likewise
Calvino Rabeni: Not question
Tarmel Udimo: I know:)
Calvino Rabeni: See you again - good day!
Tarmel Udimo: bye for now...
Geoff Baily: bye Tarmel
Calvino Rabeni: Geoff, if it is not terribly nosy, I am curious about your correspondance with Pema.
Calvino Rabeni: He is very aproachable I found
Geoff Baily: I sent him a mail telling him a little about me in real life
Geoff Baily: Yes i thk he's great
Calvino Rabeni: You have come to sessions here regularly.
Calvino Rabeni: I think, you like it.
Geoff Baily: Found this about 2 weeks ago, its great
Geoff Baily: a good way of exploring and sharing ideas
Calvino Rabeni: My first session had a big confrontation in it but that tuned out unusual
Geoff Baily: and developing together
Calvino Rabeni: Co-intelligence at work :)
Geoff Baily: i have not experienced confrontations yet!!
Calvino Rabeni: Rare I think
Geoff Baily: yes a joint effort to explore and understand
Calvino Rabeni: The "class project" was interesting
Geoff Baily: being respectful of other's point of view
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Geoff Baily: "class project"?
Calvino Rabeni: You can find it in the logs.
Geoff Baily: ok will look ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Some college students were, i think, told to come here to study the group
Calvino Rabeni: Group
Geoff Baily: think i need to go soon. Have you been here a long time Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Not at all
Geoff Baily: oh yes i read that a little
Calvino Rabeni: Less than a month
Calvino Rabeni: And I work at home - have lots of time to drop in here:)
Geoff Baily: and ??????
Geoff Baily: and you find it good?
Calvino Rabeni: It won't always be so, but I enjoy it while I can
Geoff Baily: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: It dovetails with multiple long-term interests for me
Geoff Baily: me too
Calvino Rabeni: (an involve topic, but I hope we will find time to explore that at some point)
Geoff Baily: its both the medium and the message that are interesting to me
Calvino Rabeni: Very true!
Geoff Baily: yes, love to do that Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Need to go however. Good chat - see you later :)
Geoff Baily: Well , I must go now too bye
Calvino Rabeni: *good
Calvino Rabeni: By for now