2009.12.03 13:00 - Words in the snow

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

 

We are quiet for a long time.

Storm Nordwind: Greetings Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Good day!
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Good evening Mick
Mickorod Renard: good evening Storm and Calvino
Mickorod Renard: Hi ara
Storm Nordwind: Hi arabella
arabella Ella: hiya everyone
Storm Nordwind: We have all been very quiet so far. If anyone has a topic they would like to venture, please feel free. :)
Mickorod Renard: thanks
arabella Ella: ty very kind of you Storm

Mick uses a bit of English vernacular, and the conversation quickly gravitates to "words".

arabella Ella: how is everyone today?
Mickorod Renard: nackered
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Storm Nordwind: Not an expression I hear much anymore Mick!
arabella Ella: :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Eden!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eden
arabella Ella: not an american expression then Storm?
Eden Haiku: HI!
Storm Nordwind: No not really
Calvino Rabeni: Is there an american english word for that :)
arabella Ella: maybe shattered?
Storm Nordwind: Exhausted in real English
Storm Nordwind: Not even shattered ara
Mickorod Renard: nackered has its routes somewhere in the refered state of an old worn out horse
Storm Nordwind: As in "nackers yard"
arabella Ella: finished?
arabella Ella: you tell us Storm whether there is an alternative in the US?
Calvino Rabeni: "trashed" maybe
Storm Nordwind: Calvino is the best equipped to do that. I'm still just learning American
Storm Nordwind: Yes, that's probably the one
Storm Nordwind: Interesting that we have a poet and two storytellers and we're talking about words!
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: "wiped out" - less colorfully, "beat" or "worn out"
arabella Ella: i never heard the word thrashed being used like that honestly

Calvino broadens the topic.

Calvino Rabeni: I had a good talk with Gaya one night about words in multiple languages
arabella Ella: yes?
Eden Haiku: In Quebec French that would be«à terre», which means on the ground....
arabella Ella: please say more Calvino
Storm Nordwind: Oh Cal? Care to share?
Storm Nordwind doesn't have a "«" symbol on his keyboard
Calvino Rabeni: Several things. One about the difference in feeling and tacit worldview between old english words and the latin derived words
Calvino Rabeni: second about english vs asian words
Eden Haiku: It is French quoting marks. It would be " " in English, sorry...
Calvino Rabeni: in tems of deep meaning and the dcultural mbed
Storm Nordwind was just teasing Eden
Eden Haiku: :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Like the word "worry" from english
Calvino Rabeni: with its origin as a kind of hunting mataphor with animals
Storm Nordwind: That's an interesting choice
Calvino Rabeni: a high degree of physicality
Storm Nordwind: Worry is derived from a verb meaning to strangle
arabella Ella: really? is that its origin ... very intruiging
Calvino Rabeni: Then we would translate from one language and back, getting the literal tanslation
arabella Ella: you could use worry beads for that i guess
Calvino Rabeni: e.g. worry = "thinks too much"
Mickorod Renard: thats a funny but dual link I guess ara
Storm Nordwind: People to be executed were worried (strangled) at the stake before being burned. From the Old Engish "wyrgan"
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: english seems to have fewer stems - thus fewer categories that relate words to a common conceptual group
Storm Nordwind loves the derivation of the word "silly"
Calvino Rabeni: the stems of words tell people that ideas are related
Calvino Rabeni: like concern vs worry
arabella Ella: please say more Storm
Eden Haiku: Om mane padme hum
Calvino Rabeni: Play means freedom
arabella Ella: education means leisure
Calvino Rabeni: freedom of movement, specifically
Calvino Rabeni: education - to draw out
Calvino Rabeni: requiring flexibility of the material (the sudent)
Storm Nordwind: The origin of silly is "saelig" from "sael" meaing luck. Saelig was lucky. Someone who relied on luck - happy go lucky - was "foolish" in the original benign sense of the word. Later foolish took on a different tone and so silly came to have its current meaning
arabella Ella: i like the different means to the word hai ... high ... hi ... in different languages ... english, german, maltese and japanese
Eden Haiku: Yes, that is beautiful the origin of «silly»...very beautiful! The poet takes notes...
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
arabella Ella: hiya eliza

I ask a question about words that I know is likely to bring conflicting answers. And the conversation meanders under its own steam from then on.

Storm Nordwind: But do words themselves have intrinsic power? Or is it only the meaning in our minds that has the power?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Excuse me Ara :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello everyone :)
Storm Nordwind waves
arabella Ella: :)
Eden Haiku: HI Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: i dont think the words themselves have intrinsic power
Eden Haiku: According to the sanskrit pandits, words do have power .
Mickorod Renard: nice dress eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles at the snow gathering and listens :)
Mickorod Renard: I think words take on a power
Calvino Rabeni: Look at all that has been created with words. They are our prime virtual reality
Mickorod Renard: but in themselves have none
arabella Ella: can we know anything outside words or concepts and if so what can we know?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, everything that exists is outside wods and concepts
Eden Haiku: In India they say that old seers would pronounce the word «om» and it would write itself on the sand.
Eden Haiku: In ancient times that is...
Mickorod Renard: perhaps words are /were initialy data storage, and comunication format
Eden Haiku: I would beleive that Mickorod, data storage.
Calvino Rabeni: No that came much later
Mickorod Renard: later than what? pls
Storm Nordwind: The old north European script, runes, were used for writing and for magic. But that is the written word, rather than the spoken word.
Calvino Rabeni: The concept of information is a recent one
Mickorod Renard: I was thinking of data storage within the human brain
Storm Nordwind: How recent is recent Cal?
Eden Haiku: Old North European did not have something like mantras, incantations?
Calvino Rabeni: Prior to that there were communications that were of th nature of interactions
Mickorod Renard: a means of compartmentalising
Calvino Rabeni: 20th century
Storm Nordwind: Yes Eden, they had something called "galdr"
arabella Ella: galdi?
Eden Haiku: Thanks, I will look it up...
Storm Nordwind: So what was stored in ancient libraries, if it was not information?
Eden Haiku: Akashik records go even further than words in storage capacity ;-)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Calvino Rabeni: Physical cues reminding people of speech
Mickorod Renard: I was originaly thinking of words before written,,for the use as data storage and compartmentalising in the brain
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: bacteria "communicate" using molecules
Mickorod Renard: I wonder at what level of sophistication though?
Calvino Rabeni: if some of ther molecules were stored in a container, transported by a current, and opeed among other bacteria, would thatbe "information transfer"?
Mickorod Renard: mind you,,a walk around some of the streets in england reminds me that perhaps thats not so relevent
Storm Nordwind: It would if you used DNA as similar metaphor Cal
Calvino Rabeni: The point is subtle - hard to go into here (esp. with my feeble kbd)
Calvino Rabeni: A matter of perspective, but it would be great if most people looked at the natue of "information" as a concept, since all use it so pervasively nowadays
Calvino Rabeni: It muddies the water
Calvino Rabeni: about meanng and language
Mickorod Renard: well,,I read the other day that memory /information is compounded if smell is also included in the retainment of information,,in humans at least
Calvino Rabeni: Here is a link to a kind of provocation on the matter
Mickorod Renard: smell is a direct link to the memory part of the brain
Calvino Rabeni: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interac.../11/weinberger
arabella Ella: yes Mick i heard today dolphins have part of their brain where all the sense information is collected and humans dont have that
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've heard that too, Mick. One guesses that as many senses as one can engage would be useful
Mickorod Renard: yes
Calvino Rabeni: engagement depends on consciousness of the subject, also
Calvino Rabeni: All knowledge is mostly or entirely in consciousness
Mickorod Renard: yes, my dog is onlyy engaged when it comes to food
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you see it as present until acted on, in a sense?
Calvino Rabeni: The idea that language "contains" anything is a misconception
Eliza Madrigal: or rather almost dormant?
Storm Nordwind: Like "icanhascheezburger" Mick?

Tarmel arrives, and that's our cue to wind down.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tarmel!
Tarmel Udimo: hi everyone, just logged in for a few mins
Eden Haiku: Hello Tarmel!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Tarmel
Calvino Rabeni: goot to see you again, Tarmel
Eliza Madrigal: Always nice to have a Tarmel sighting :)
arabella Ella: Hiya Tarmel
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Mickorod Renard: sorry Storm,,I was just saving Calvinos link
Mickorod Renard: yea,,cheezburger would engage my dog
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh snow
Tarmel Udimo: tks Storm?
Storm Nordwind: You're welcome Tarmel
Mickorod Renard: it snowed here today,,in rl
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you all for a little while... Bye for now
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
Storm Nordwind: Bye Eliza!
Tarmel Udimo: bye
Eden Haiku: Bye Eliza. You look beautiful!
arabella Ella: wow Mick that is so cool
Mickorod Renard: cool,,,mmmm yes
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Storm Nordwind puts on a different tag
Tarmel Udimo: hahaha
Eden Haiku: You are in Ireland I think Mick? Is snow rare over there?
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: Storm cool tag is that what it is like where u r?
Storm Nordwind: Actually it's warmed up to minus 10 but there is snow around
Storm Nordwind: And we expect minus 17 tonight
Tarmel Udimo: yikes
Mickorod Renard: I am in England,,its rare and common,,depends on what sort of year we get
Calvino Rabeni: I used to live in your ara, Storm
arabella Ella: oh noooo .... today is meant to be full moon ... saw full moon last night in extra clear sky ... brilliant experience
Mickorod Renard: it was just a flurry
Tarmel Udimo: (I am off to check out Stim's session, so will head over
Tarmel Udimo: nice to see you all)
Calvino Rabeni: crazy weather
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind reminds everyone that Ways of Knowing starts now in the Cafe
arabella Ella: i must leave now am too tired today nite all
Calvino Rabeni: I am heding o Kra cafe also
Storm Nordwind: Let us go en masse then
Mickorod Renard: bye ara
Eden Haiku: In Montreal, it snowed afew days ago and it was wonderful. Now it is all gone.Bye!
Storm Nordwind: Bye Eden. If you want to know more about Galdr, just ask! :)
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: Bye Eden
Eden Haiku: Sure! Thanks!
Mickorod Renard: I have to leave
Eden Haiku: It is going to be in a haiku...
Eden Haiku: Bye Mickorod!
Eden Haiku: I will put boots on...