2009.12.27 01:00 - Cold and warm Truth

Stargate Tone: Hello all :)***
Moon Fargis: morning bert :)
Stargate Tone: Hello Bert
Bertram Jacobus: hello , good morning :-)
Moon Fargis: ohh intresting av :)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe ty :-)
Bertram Jacobus: and what about the wheel in your back moon ? what is it ? :-)
Moon Fargis: brrr cols enoght outside, so better keep some warm here
Moon Fargis: thats the dharma wheel :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah ok
Bertram Jacobus: hello cal ! ... :-)
Moon Fargis: greetings cal
Stargate Tone: Hello Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Greetings, I'll probably step on people finding a seat
Stargate Tone: lol; thinks what means this Bert's sentence
Bertram Jacobus: i just ask cal whether i expressed it in a correct way
Stargate Tone: or maybe more what joking mind would turn it to mean easily
Calvino Rabeni: Moon's sessions are always lush and interesting
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: and i meant not only to be friendly to known people and friends ...
Stargate Tone: as somebody might ask that how then about with ppl you know :)***
Stargate Tone: ah yes; Moon's got connection probs
Bertram Jacobus: but you are right : i should write something like ...
Stargate Tone: friendly to all :)***
Bertram Jacobus: title yellow ... friendly ...
Stargate Tone: ah yes
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Stargate Tone: that one word might tell the best way
Stargate Tone: 'not explaning too much'
Bertram Jacobus: ty for your hint. i also thought about that ... but did not change before ... :-)
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: not limiting too much ...
Stargate Tone: ah well...here in Finland most people have already having the attitude, that
Stargate Tone: wb Moon
Moon Fargis: re
Calvino Rabeni: Nice "look" Stargate, very elegant avatar
Stargate Tone: that who do understand, dont need explonations, and who dont, no explonation is enough
Stargate Tone: ah thank you
Qt Core: hi all
Bertram Jacobus: hi qt ! :-)
--BELL--
Moon Fargis: hi qt
Stargate Tone: most of it is Fael's 'handwriting', but the dress is present from Moon
Stargate Tone: Hello Qt
Moon Fargis: ok
Moon Fargis: tea made
Moon Fargis: cat cuddles with me
Moon Fargis: cake also oresent
Stargate Tone: ahh
Moon Fargis: present
Stargate Tone: candy ?
Moon Fargis: so i think morning can start
Moon Fargis: sweet cake :)
Stargate Tone: so welcome to the human world's new day :)*
Stargate Tone: (which is specially happy to star cuz star got new body to use)
Stargate Tone: (waits feeling exitement that might somebody have interest to know what body star means)
Stargate Tone: (giggles)
Moon Fargis: sigh, and brb again, seems a customer got problems :)
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: ok : which body do you mean star ? ;-)
Qt Core: more scared than excited as it would have been shape if it was a SL "body" ;-)
Stargate Tone: well...concerning my SL body yes
Stargate Tone: as that is that I'm no pc person at all
Stargate Tone: but I've been even more uncapable with the other system I've needed to use
Stargate Tone: and as that happened that I had a dream
Stargate Tone: in my that dream there was two 'Lords' working with them computers
Bertram Jacobus: lords = gods ?
Stargate Tone: and I shouted from inside one to them, that pls notice then that I am one dot in this pc here
Stargate Tone: yes
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Stargate Tone: ok; I had that dream a while ago...few weeks 'back then'
Stargate Tone: and last night, when my 'pc lord' who builded many pc's to me to work with (texts and connections round the world), but moved to the town far away
Stargate Tone: so I lost the help who understood my uncapabilities and made such systems that I could use the pc to my needs
Stargate Tone: so; he's visiting me and last night he builded such system, that my other friend can help me easily; friend who's got time for me
Stargate Tone: and when they communicated with each other, that dream 'took place'
Stargate Tone: and yes; I felt myself to be verrry happy dot :)***
Stargate Tone: in that dream I mean
Bertram Jacobus: what does that mean for your rl ?
Stargate Tone: well...
Stargate Tone: as some people have even been a wonder that 'how come somebody can be so present in SL'
Stargate Tone: but that's how I've been almost whole my life....that I'm present to the help needer...but not to myself
Stargate Tone: that like I went onto the stage, that was not me present; that was the song or the poem or the story I went to give to people....
Stargate Tone: or if I went to radio; there was only the caller present...
Stargate Tone: when phone rings and I answer it, there's no me left....there's only the caller
Stargate Tone: or when the person comes to meet me to my home....there's no me present to me, but the visitor
Stargate Tone: but
Stargate Tone: in SL
Stargate Tone: I've been present also to myself
Stargate Tone: cuz I see 'part' of myself on the screen...ah yes; sure only when I look at it, not only the text in the window
Moon Fargis: rehi
Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... for me, more the similarities of rl and virtual worlds are in my focus ...
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: re moon
Stargate Tone: rehi :)***
Moon Fargis slurps finally his tea
Stargate Tone: GOOD
Moon Fargis: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^
Stargate Tone: well...as SL has never been any virtual world to me
Moon Fargis: "When reality is an illusion, and let's all agree that SL is an illusion... we are also aware we can call illusions reality - therefore, SL is also reality!"
Stargate Tone: 'only' the possibility to connections with other people and specially good 'teller' of people's mind
Stargate Tone: as all that people create here, sure; own Avatars specially, but also all the else
Stargate Tone: tells about one's own mind
Bertram Jacobus: i did not find out much about "illusions" in my life yet ...
Stargate Tone: so; to me SL has always been 'cartoon' of ppl's genuin mind
Stargate Tone: ah; that's cuz You've been honest always
Stargate Tone: you've always wanted to know the truth, not created illusions to live to come true to yourself
Stargate Tone: but oh yes; there huge much more 'virtual worlds' in people's mind than what SL is
Moon Fargis: yes without prim limit :)
Stargate Tone: meaning them so many beliefs ppl live 'to come true' in there own life....
Calvino Rabeni: indeed
Stargate Tone: ah yes
Bertram Jacobus: hello yaku ! ... :-)
Moon Fargis: morning yakuzza
Stargate Tone: that's one good thing too
Stargate Tone: ah Greetings yakuzza for long time
Yakuzza Lethecus: morning everyone
Qt Core: hi Yakuzza
Calvino Rabeni: konichi wa Yaku-san !
Bertram Jacobus: my impression is, i live nearly or totally without any belief and i ask myself whether that´s good or bad
Stargate Tone: hm
Stargate Tone: why you ask so ?
Calvino Rabeni: There are 2 kinds of beliefs, at least - those you know, and those that are Just True and therefor invisible
Moon Fargis: hmmm believe in what ?
Bertram Jacobus: because i find it hard and often have impressions that people with beliefs live more easy
Moon Fargis: what belive are you missing ?
Calvino Rabeni: I understand Bert
Stargate Tone: well...Bert; I agree with you 130 %
Stargate Tone: yet
Stargate Tone: I have huge doubts that you'de been happier with more easy life based on such beliefs....
Stargate Tone: so...might it be a good question to ask from yourself that how is that
Moon Fargis: well then try to belive in you and in the love and compassion of yourself, try to spread it and live it
Moon Fargis: people seems to live more easy with a belife because they have something to rely their mind and thought on to compare
Moon Fargis: and if they see that their doings dont fit their belive they change it
Moon Fargis: such makes life sure easier becasue one dont have to think so much
Stargate Tone: (if)
Bertram Jacobus: not all people seem to have the same understanding of believe - to me it means to consider something wrong or right which one does not know
Moon Fargis: hmm i dont know what you mean, is that wrong or right now ?:)
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds like ideology
Stargate Tone: well...isn't that to live the truth to come true ?
Calvino Rabeni: and that, to me, sounds like faith
Stargate Tone: asking that all the time...as I donno better way to get the answer but asking
Bertram Jacobus: it is wrong for example, that normally on daytime in germany its dark - if you understand what i mean. very simple, not complicated
Moon Fargis: well its winter:)
Stargate Tone: well....I understood Bert's words that he wants to know all the time ; each moment, that 'is this right or wrong'
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: as well to me that's the true will to know if something is good or bad
Bertram Jacobus: my background is the wish to be happy and to end suffering and how to reach that
Stargate Tone: and that I cannot understand to come true but within the truth
Stargate Tone: not based on beliefs
Stargate Tone: but knowing and understanding
Qt Core: and sometimes it seem that that happiness and peace could be reached only with full knowledge or full ignorance ?
Stargate Tone: hm...thinks that peace can be reached also with understading, that nobode is even ment to know and undertand all
Bertram Jacobus: may be qt. and star : but my knowledge shows me much more cruel things then nice ones (!) :-/
Stargate Tone: ah...then it might be good thing to look 'elswere' more...
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the knowledge has a "selection" filter that can be changed
Calvino Rabeni: A bias.
Calvino Rabeni: I have found that true for myself and worked to change it
Stargate Tone: has the belief that it is so Cal...
Stargate Tone: but...cannot know...
Stargate Tone: but have also trust that it's possible to many ppl ,,,,but not at all to all
Bertram Jacobus: nice idea cal . instead i always hope not to have such filters - but nevertheless - very nice idea ...
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes "wish fulfillment" and "reality" can be compatible
Stargate Tone: well; how much you Bert see truth around your Avatar here in SL atm ?
Bertram Jacobus: or at least know my filters and calculate them
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Bertram Jacobus: truth ? i see that all can be called truth ...
Stargate Tone: as sure our mind can notice only particles of the truth we are giving our attention onto
Stargate Tone: hm...well; you are very right, cuz it's possible for people to lie too :)***
Stargate Tone: so anything can be called to be anything
Moon Fargis: well as soon we see, we decide and verrry often judge about the things we see based on our past and knowledge, but to decide whats right or wrong is also to judge yourself about what you learned to be, in a wayyou are then your own belive, might be that such phase of seeing and deciding whats wrong or riht needs ab it more openess to other levels, like seeing and not deciding just looking without judging ah so manny practises out there
Calvino Rabeni: truth is like a guest in your house
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: be a good host
Stargate Tone: well...to star, that is to feel the truth...even if wouldn't understand....
Calvino Rabeni: just a metaphor I like
Stargate Tone: I even had one ceminar to highly educated people of that 'topic'
Stargate Tone: how to know what is true and the truth
Moon Fargis: " the spirit of truth is the spirit of living and growing, expanding, widening, and adjusting to the moment"
Calvino Rabeni: "we do not see things as they are, we see things as WE are"
Stargate Tone: and yes; to star, that spirit is the messanger that one has found at least a particle of the truth, when it genuinly happenes
Stargate Tone: ah Cal; that I dont so well understand....but I understand, that when one knows the truth of anything, one dont anymore have questions of that matter
Stargate Tone: that one 'just knows'
Calvino Rabeni: some truths are not cold - they need to be be-friended
Stargate Tone: ah...donno but about them warm particels of the truth...
Calvino Rabeni: so Bert has a good tag-line for that truth-seeing
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: ah Cal....would you dare to tell me some example of 'cold truth' ?
Calvino Rabeni: cold truth is impersonal. Does not care who you are
Qt Core: have to go, bye all
Moon Fargis: bye qt have a nice day ^^
Bertram Jacobus: bye qt have a nice sunday !
Stargate Tone: ah; have nice time Qt
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Qt
Moon Fargis: but how can a truth dont care ybout you when its true ?
Stargate Tone: tries hardly to understand,,,but gets only more warmth onto her chest...
Bertram Jacobus: i had an example for cold truth but it´s not very nice - you want to hear / read it nevertheless ?
Moon Fargis: arent such truths then other truths? made by others?
Stargate Tone: I truly would like to hear
Bertram Jacobus: okay
Calvino Rabeni: If I think only of the facts and figures of my life, it is a cold viewpoint
Calvino Rabeni: Things people could agree on without having heart about it
Bertram Jacobus: when a clinging person in hospital gets told that she will die in a few weeks ...
Moon Fargis: then its a prediction :)
Stargate Tone: well...one can get warmth of the truth that this person shall reach the final releaf....
Calvino Rabeni: there is a lot of warmth to the story of the death, it is more than just a body and a date
Stargate Tone: but might star be starting to understand what Cal means with his words
Bertram Jacobus: yes, but also truth. and cold. based on the doctors experiences. highly presumably. not lied
Moon Fargis: well
Calvino Rabeni: the doctors serve it cold usually
Moon Fargis: i would answer, "before i belive that as truth you have to proove it tome!" :)
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t hope, that such stories happen often (!) -
Stargate Tone: well...in case the patient dont die, but is to been healed, then there's been a lie...even not done with purpose
Bertram Jacobus: i think it will not be too often. it´s so basic not to injure people - nearly everybody knows that luckily
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: so lets then define maybe "cold truths" as truths created by other persons who dont care about you
Bertram Jacobus: nicely said moon
Calvino Rabeni: or just, truths that don't have the person in them
Calvino Rabeni: nobody home
Bertram Jacobus: and cal began that definition, also nice ... :-)
Moon Fargis: well i wouldnt miss the "created by others"
Stargate Tone: ah well...star still donno such genuin truth....
Moon Fargis: becasue a real truth dont need to be created by others
Moon Fargis: it will bite you in the ass as you see it
Stargate Tone: that such 'cold truth'
Calvino Rabeni: I didn't understand "created by others" because I think, I create cold truths about myself also
Bertram Jacobus: lol moon
Stargate Tone: would prefere to star's mind be 'a lie'...
Moon Fargis: well might you just create cold facts you belive as true ?
Stargate Tone: ah yes Cal....pls think Moon's that question
Calvino Rabeni: that is a new distinction at this time
Calvino Rabeni: a "fact" usually means "a true thing"
Bertram Jacobus: but star - you will know that sometimes to be silent is known as the better choice - that has the same reason i guess - no ?
Calvino Rabeni: thus, often, same as a truth
Moon Fargis: ah but whats when a fact is based on a lie ?
Stargate Tone: ah well...silent does not ever mean the complete silence on each levels of entity
Moon Fargis: or a missinterpretation?
Stargate Tone: as that is also, that nobody can stop the thinking
Stargate Tone: and thoughts are also sound....
Calvino Rabeni: hmmm, what fact is based on a lie, for example
Calvino Rabeni: like a concept,that turns out later to have been mistaken?
Bertram Jacobus: yes cal
Moon Fargis: yes something like this
Moon Fargis: lets say
Moon Fargis: youw whole life was a lie as soon you awake
Stargate Tone: and specially when the concept is created with purpose to fool other ppl
Calvino Rabeni: Ok, I guess, for me a lot of concepts are on probation, not known whether they shoudl be called true
Calvino Rabeni: That woudl be a lie then
Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe, the fooling could have a beneficial result?
Stargate Tone: so; already that you have questions for them, is the sign that you donno yet the truth.....
Calvino Rabeni: A white lie?
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: or lie given to you in order to rule ower you
Stargate Tone: to rule at least over Ur mind
Bertram Jacobus: my capacity for the talks at the moment seems to be fulfilled - so ... have a great time until next time pease ! :-) *wave*
Stargate Tone: ah yes; sure there's always reason to ask of them lies too, that are they good or bad...as sometimes it's even more easy to find the truth 'by' the lie
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: bye bert
Moon Fargis: the lies you create result of the state your facts where produced by not knowing more, or not being aware
Moon Fargis: bye bert
Stargate Tone: whishing restfull tiem to Bert
Bertram Jacobus: ty all :-)
Calvino Rabeni: What about lies that help you rule over your life?
Stargate Tone: is there such ?
Calvino Rabeni: Illusions, they could be called
Moon Fargis: well we got alot of tools to rule over our life...no ?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, like "I know what is going on", "I have power", etc.
Stargate Tone: but do they truly help you to rule over your life ?
Calvino Rabeni: YEs
Calvino Rabeni: I think it is part of what Bert was questioning
Calvino Rabeni: There are people who cultivate a positive attitude
Calvino Rabeni: and ignore the things that are broken or wrong
Moon Fargis: andthats IMO the wrong way
Calvino Rabeni: they look the other way about problems if they cannot be expected to do anything
Calvino Rabeni: otherwise they feel overwhelmed and sad at the state of the world
Calvino Rabeni: they keep a narrower focus
Moon Fargis: if there is something broken , sure it must be repaired as soon one is capable to that
Calvino Rabeni: and they may not be able to fix everything in the wold
Calvino Rabeni: *world
Stargate Tone: ahhhh
Moon Fargis: but ignoring a bleeding wound...makes it just worse
Calvino Rabeni: So some people have a rosy tinted glasses
Calvino Rabeni: Some things must be dealt with
Calvino Rabeni: most problems are optional
Calvino Rabeni: the idea of having a "self" is one kind of illusion that is very handy for getting things done
Stargate Tone: but might there be then a question of lie....that this what cannot be changes, is if fact the truth, and the one willing to change it carries the lie in one's mind
Calvino Rabeni: People believe they pretty much can explain everything, or at least, everything they need to understand
Calvino Rabeni: People have a "shadow"
Stargate Tone: ah yes Cal
Moon Fargis: "To one awarenes to be awake is to see throught the clouds of the mind, breaking its chains to see and feel clearly oneness in many"
Stargate Tone: that's very common way of thinking
Calvino Rabeni: different things cause the shadow
Stargate Tone: indeed
Calvino Rabeni: if you ask people to look at their shadow it causes them trouble usually
Stargate Tone: cuz one and the same thing/event/experience is different to different people
Moon Fargis: but what do you feel when i would tell you "your whole life was a lie"
Stargate Tone: oh huge how cold feeling that thought brings
Calvino Rabeni: It is a feeling of totalitarianism, chilly
Stargate Tone: so; I still cannot accept any even tiny particle of the genuin truth to be cold...
Moon Fargis: yes genuin truth isnt cold
Calvino Rabeni: agree, star and moon
Stargate Tone: my friend Calvino Rabeni
Moon Fargis: cold truth is implanted in you by others
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Stargate Tone: I wanna thank you
Stargate Tone: I wanna thank you very much
Moon Fargis: even its your past butthat relies also on much much otheres
Stargate Tone: cuz you gave me the 'new tool' to help people
Calvino Rabeni: Star you have a big heart
Stargate Tone: as well you do my friend
Stargate Tone: as well you do
Calvino Rabeni: Still thinking about what moon said
Calvino Rabeni: TY star :)
Moon Fargis: stop thiking and relax: )
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: thats the best step sometimes :)
Calvino Rabeni: I cannot believe to blame others about what is in me - I will take partial responsibility
Stargate Tone: (Moon often escapes when star tells that she's thinking)
Moon Fargis: lol
Stargate Tone: ah yes Cal; but that's the 'story of it's own'
Moon Fargis: hmhm just a example
Calvino Rabeni: it seems worth doing some sorting out :)
Moon Fargis: what colour got this box ?
Stargate Tone: meaning that to blame somebody else is an other thing, that to think there given lies
Moon Fargis: cal?
Calvino Rabeni: The box looks red+orange
Moon Fargis: and when i would tell yu thats it is blue?
Calvino Rabeni: If someone gives me a lie, and I take it and think with it, then who did that
Stargate Tone: yuo still didn't blame the lie giver
Calvino Rabeni: Are you color blind Moon?
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Moon Fargis: :)
Stargate Tone: to think other's lies is not to blame them
Moon Fargis: when i would tell you now back when you learned colors that thisis Blue
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: no, but to credit the source can be done without blame
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Stargate Tone: ah yes
Moon Fargis: then you would agree with me now :)
Moon Fargis: cus that is your truth
Calvino Rabeni: I don't care for blame, it seems added on
Stargate Tone: I know Cal
Calvino Rabeni: and the source seems cooperative
Moon Fargis: see call your whole self is based on the knowlegdge and truths of others
Moon Fargis: colours, shapes, names
Moon Fargis: you accepted back then those teachings as true
Calvino Rabeni: yes, cooperative
Moon Fargis: such things are cold truths
Moon Fargis: we lerned that thisi s red and take it to be true
Calvino Rabeni: we are told about love also for example
Stargate Tone: but cuz they in fact are agreed rules that ppl all wanna follow; that red is called as red...that all can know what colour there's in a question, that is then the truth
Moon Fargis: yes, see, the real thruths are hard to learn
Moon Fargis: hats why love is missing so much in society today
Moon Fargis: (thats)
Stargate Tone: ah yes,,,cuz ppl donno the genuin truth of what love is
Calvino Rabeni: People only agree about rules that match what is basically true
Stargate Tone: but have different kind of beliefs...which in fact are lies...
Calvino Rabeni: If it too far wrong they won't agree
Stargate Tone: Hello Lilith
Moon Fargis: so when one awakes and sees all this facts, he will see his whole life is based on lies and cold truths
Calvino Rabeni: for instance, if 100 people agree the box is Red, it is because of something about the box
Moon Fargis: more or less ofcourse
Moon Fargis: yes everyone learned this colour to be red
Calvino Rabeni: But if no one can agree about the color, it probably isn't
Stargate Tone: and them ppl who are colour blind, dont see but there own opinion that it's green
Calvino Rabeni: They learned to name the color
Stargate Tone: such people cannot accept the reality to be what it is...
Moon Fargis: well at the end we humans are expressionists
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: aslong we have to rely on speech and text we have to create terms
Moon Fargis: and words
Calvino Rabeni: So many plants here I can't see Lilith
Stargate Tone: she passed by
Moon Fargis: hi lillith
Lilith Oxygen: hello
Stargate Tone: Ur free and welcome to have a sti
Stargate Tone: sit
Lilith Oxygen: thanks
Moon Fargis: ahhh i see youre pretty new :)
Lilith Oxygen: yes i am
Lilith Oxygen: this is my 2nd day
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: well then theres much to explore :)
Lilith Oxygen: yes there is
Lilith Oxygen: it is al lot of new things here
Moon Fargis: then let me give you some landmarks :)
Moon Fargis: they are in your inventory then under the landmarks folder
Lilith Oxygen: thanks i have find it
Stargate Tone: brb
Lilith Oxygen: this is a nice place here
Lilith Oxygen: i dont have seen such a place in sl before
Calvino Rabeni: A group meets her 4 times per day. At 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm
Moon Fargis: ahyes this is the babble pavillion of the "play as being" group, we practse a new form of awareness meditation and babble here about it and all other stuff, its open to everyone
Calvino Rabeni: You can come at any of those times
Lilith Oxygen: oh i see, nice
Moon Fargis: http://playasbeing.wik.is/ is the webpage
Moon Fargis: ahyeswe babble already since 1h 43 minutes :))
Lilith Oxygen: thanks
Lilith Oxygen: i see the wiki
Calvino Rabeni: Every 15 minutes a bell rings, then people pause
Calvino Rabeni: It will happen almost now
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: It is for whatever meditation you want to do
Lilith Oxygen: what kind of meditation, i dont know very much about
Moon Fargis: ahyes out babbles are recordded and will be put as logs in the wiki, is it ok to include your name ?
Lilith Oxygen: yes it is
Stargate Tone: b
Calvino Rabeni: It is a simple "mindfulness" meditation. Nothing to it, except to pause and notice what you are aware of right at the moment
Moon Fargis: ah the play as being "meditation" is a RL practise, you hold n for 9 seconds every 15 minutes
Calvino Rabeni: There is more information on the site, but that is basically the idea
Lilith Oxygen: oh i see
Moon Fargis: if you need some meditation places the landmarks hikari and hikaru have much of them :) especially hikari
Moon Fargis: ahyes its time also for me to go
Moon Fargis: was a nice talk :)
Moon Fargis: and hopeto see you soon
Calvino Rabeni: Same here, it is very late - good bye dears
Lilith Oxygen: see you
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: happy exploring there lilith :)