2010.08.02 19:00 -The grad school psychologists are watching

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Bruce, Archmage, Ewan, Calvino, and Stevenaia.
 

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sharon.
Bruce Mowbray: I see that the beanbag chairs didn't get picked up.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I found a new addition to the pavilion when I got here
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: not yet
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, they came in this afternoon (1 p.m. session).
SophiaSharon Larnia: what a nice guy, Bertram bringing us cushy chairs :D
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Arch
Bruce Mowbray: Well, he had an SL wedding to scoot off to and probably didn't have time to collect the chairs before that.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Ewan
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes? how fun :))
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Ewan, Arch.
Ewan Bonham: Hi all..
SophiaSharon Larnia: I would've forgot too... ok now everybody scoot off my chairs hahaha
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, cushy chairs are nice
Archmage Atlantis: But not real
Bruce Mowbray: Good move, Ewan!
Archmage Atlantis: max, nix
SophiaSharon Larnia: no, not real, any more than the chair I am sitting in real life, so they say ^^
Ewan Bonham: lol...did it on its own
Bruce Mowbray: Ewan and I have moved to the real cushions.
Bruce Mowbray: and Sharon, too.
Ewan Bonham: lol
Ewan Bonham: none of that sissy stuff
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok that smooth move threw me off the sim
Archmage Atlantis: Hey, being a sissy myself, I find that comment a bit off putting
Bruce Mowbray: which one, Arch?
Bruce Mowbray: oh the one about sissy?
Archmage Atlantis: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I relate to "sissy" myself!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi stevenaia :)
Ewan Bonham: just a way of getting folks into the fray...and it worked..
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, steve.
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, I'm an easy mark -- along with being sissy.
Archmage Atlantis: Child, you have no idea what the fray can be
SophiaSharon Larnia: fray doesnt have to have a negative connotation
Archmage Atlantis: Agree
SophiaSharon Larnia: dont sit in the cushy chairs steve, with your yellow shirt, we'll never see you again
Bruce Mowbray: ha!
stevenaia Michinaga: as soon as I see it, I won’t
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Archmage Atlantis: And I will badger you.....one of my 3 animal spirits
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, Bert's chair
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes steve :D rumor has it he ran off to a wedding and left them here
Archmage Atlantis: He did run off to a wedding.......leaving them here, tho, had purpose
Bruce Mowbray: I suggested he take them as wedding gifts...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont think i have an animal spirit atm, it used to be a dragonfly
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Calvino.
stevenaia Michinaga: they are appearing everywhere
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Calvino
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoa and Cal has some lag eh
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: Cal brought his peace pipe, I see.
Ewan Bonham: Hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ewan
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, this is a talking stick. (But it doesn't talk!)
SophiaSharon Larnia: shame cant actually pass a talking stick in sl like you can in rl
SophiaSharon Larnia: other than attach, detach :)
Bruce Mowbray: Oh, a talking stick - - We used to use one in my men's group. . .
Ewan Bonham: Well, we can pretend, sharon
Calvino Rabeni: That would be nice to script, to pass the stick
Archmage Atlantis: peace pipe = tobacco = my father and grandfathers farm in NC
SophiaSharon Larnia: yep, as long its not the stupid stick, which i seem to possess today
Archmage Atlantis: Harvesting tobacco is heck
Ewan Bonham: funny how we 'feel' the difference between the chairs and the cushions
SophiaSharon Larnia: spatially?
Ewan Bonham: Yes, it seems sharon
Archmage Atlantis: Of course, sillies, we are in our mind's eye

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: Ewan, I apologize for not commenting on the dream........though I am glad the meetings have been moved to 2x a month
Ewan Bonham: Yes, arch...I was not familiar with the routine.
Ewan Bonham: But I REALLY like the format
Archmage Atlantis: I do also
Ewan Bonham: I wish it was done more here.
Archmage Atlantis: It has a place
Ewan Bonham: And I would be glad to facilitate if needed.
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats great Ewan
Ewan Bonham: i really like pab
Archmage Atlantis: I need to go.....blessings to you all
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Arch!
Ewan Bonham: bye arch
Calvino Rabeni: Blessings, Archmage
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, you could pick an open pab slot to start with, as one idea
Ewan Bonham: I may take another look at that...
Ewan Bonham: it seems like fun
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, bye all
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye stevenaia :)
Bruce Mowbray: G'night, steve.
Ewan Bonham: bye stev
Ewan Bonham: You seem antsy tonight, sharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have a lot of lag, doing small things, it's much more so in bieup
Ewan Bonham: much lag..
Ewan Bonham: I am told some of that may be taken care of in the Emerald new product coming out
SophiaSharon Larnia: I used 2270 beta but went back to 1636 because i kept crashing on tp and looking at the map too much
SophiaSharon Larnia: looking for land
Ewan Bonham: oh, maybe its a step in the wrong direction
Bruce Mowbray: I tried the new Version 2 viewer and decided to return to the earlier one.
SophiaSharon Larnia: its in beta so theyre still working out the bugs
Bruce Mowbray: I didn't like how the cameras worked.
SophiaSharon Larnia: they changed again??
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, there's a 2.1 (or something like that).
SophiaSharon Larnia: or back? now I'll have to go look.
Bruce Mowbray: I'll go check. . . just a sec.
Ewan Bonham: yes, i have that as well
SophiaSharon Larnia: the camera controls was a deal breaker for me with the first 2.0

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is 2.1.0
SophiaSharon Larnia: or should i say movement and camera controls, if you play with prims at all its a hot mess.
Ewan Bonham: Well, i go back and forth between whether it is the program or me.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i go back and forth weither sl is a good thing for me
Ewan Bonham: I like to think it is the program..
Ewan Bonham: But as soon as a new program comes out
Ewan Bonham: i'm cursing it as well
SophiaSharon Larnia: whether* sorry distracted here
Bruce Mowbray: Really, Sharon?
Bruce Mowbray: Whether SL is good or not?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes.
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Bruce Mowbray: good for you. . . Wow.
Ewan Bonham: Guess we'll have to keep trying it out, eh?
Bruce Mowbray: That raises all sorts of questions. . .
Ewan Bonham: yes, about consciousness
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is, in so many ways, it is also immersive to the point were I have forgone rl things to attend something in sl
Bruce Mowbray: I do not have a single RL friend who even dares to go near SL.
Bruce Mowbray: One friend calls it "Spooky."
Ewan Bonham: yes, and i want to share it with them.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I wouldnt be who I am now, without having been here in pab
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Ewan.
Ewan Bonham: i agree sharon
Ewan Bonham: i feel I have grown a lot since coming here a short while ago
Ewan Bonham: But, i often prefer sl to rl
Ewan Bonham: because so much is at your fingertips here
Bruce Mowbray: Sl definitely has more variety and access than my RL setting.
SophiaSharon Larnia: i've been pushing myself out the rl door :)
Ewan Bonham: and i do think we all bring out our better qualities here
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: some of us
Bruce Mowbray: I continue to identify as an "immersive" and all of the ramifications of that.
Ewan Bonham: Can immersive be reflective or contemplative?
Bruce Mowbray: Oh sure!
SophiaSharon Larnia: in a phenomological sense?
Ewan Bonham: Well, i think that is always where I have lived
Bruce Mowbray: It's just an emotional "connection" that I bring to SL -- and take away from SL, too.
Ewan Bonham: but had no home for it before
Calvino Rabeni: heheh - I love it when people talk "phenomenology"
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha
Ewan Bonham: People would say...hey earth to Ewan...:)
Bruce Mowbray: May I confess something to you, Ewan?
Bruce Mowbray: [this is how immersive I am!]
Bruce Mowbray: You and I became "friends" a long time ago. . .
Ewan Bonham: Yes, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: but I never heard a peep from you -- and then thought I must have offended you somehow.
Ewan Bonham: I recall, you were my first 'friend on sl
Bruce Mowbray: and eventually I realized that I was projecting my own lack of self-worth (or something like that).
Ewan Bonham: i was still fumbling around
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it's been a long time!
Bruce Mowbray: And we went to the ACCIM together, too!
Ewan Bonham: yep
Bruce Mowbray: ACCIM. A Course in Miracles.
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah nice
Bruce Mowbray: ACIM.
Bruce Mowbray: sorry.
Ewan Bonham: and there wer times when i just realized...hey this is someone who is like minded
Bruce Mowbray: anyway, my point is: Bruce is maturing all along the way.
Bruce Mowbray: I think he might have reached adolescence now.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Ewan Bonham: yep... i agree also we project...but what better place to do it
SophiaSharon Larnia: in some ways, sl encouraged my hermit tendencies
Bruce Mowbray: agreed.
Bruce Mowbray: nothing wrong with that, Sharon!
SophiaSharon Larnia: still having interactions
SophiaSharon Larnia: in my case it is, because I have pretty intense social phobia, somethings

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: times*
Ewan Bonham: i don't have social phobia..
Ewan Bonham: rather social anxiety
Bruce Mowbray: One thing that has surprise me about my interactions in SL is how "protective" I've become of avi's who get attacked.
Ewan Bonham: but it is the very thing I crave
Ewan Bonham: Really bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Ewan Bonham: Well, you recall Dream?
Ewan Bonham: Well she was encased in a Bubble by someone
Bruce Mowbray: The more I get to know people (avi's), the more I feel that I want to defend them against griefers.
SophiaSharon Larnia: that is just stupid, i dont mean you but that kind of thing
Bruce Mowbray: the bubble thing?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Bruce Mowbray: agrees.
Bruce Mowbray: There are a couple of truly fascinating books out now about what "emerges" in SL interactions.
Bruce Mowbray: we're being studied by grad school psychologists.
Ewan Bonham: really..
SophiaSharon Larnia: i got messed around a lot in sandboxes, its what made me get land in the first place
Bruce Mowbray: yep.
Bruce Mowbray: One thing that seems to emerge is "ethics."
Ewan Bonham: In what way, bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Even in weird sims where there are no guidelines -- folks seem to develop ways of interacting. . .
Bruce Mowbray: (I'm not talking about the guidelines that the Lindens set down.)
SophiaSharon Larnia: very interesting to study human interactions that way
Bruce Mowbray: Different ethical "codes" for different sims.
Bruce Mowbray: I'cve noticed that happening here, as well.
Bruce Mowbray: I've.
Ewan Bonham: Well in pab it is somewhat codified
Bruce Mowbray: somewhat, yes.
Bruce Mowbray: We also have the wiki -- and that sort of sets the agenda -- in a larger sense.
Ewan Bonham: yes
Bruce Mowbray: It is fascinating, for me, to go to the transcripts of our sessions and watch what's happening there.
Bruce Mowbray: The dynamics of group interaction.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Bruce, you seem a keen observer of group process
Ewan Bonham: and this is being studied?
Calvino Rabeni: No, not in that sense
Calvino Rabeni: But people who can't attend a session, like to read the log to see what happened and maybe, feel somewhat a part of it
Calvino Rabeni: the logs add continuity
Calvino Rabeni: but, that said, and the fact that they are open, ... maybe somewhere there is some sociologist doing a study
Calvino Rabeni: but it is not known to anyone I've talked to
Ewan Bonham: hmmm
Calvino Rabeni: I would guess - it is possible - but not actually happening
Ewan Bonham: or maybe being here to see how it affects them...participant observer
SophiaSharon Larnia: the logs, while useful for that kind of study, don't relate how it is to participate, the pauses between sentences as one example
SophiaSharon Larnia: or the IM flurry that goes on sometimes
Ewan Bonham: yes, so much is said between the lines
SophiaSharon Larnia: and conversations away from the logs
SophiaSharon Larnia: friendships forged, etc.
SophiaSharon Larnia: to use the logs alone would be a limited study
Bruce Mowbray: The book that I have in mind (that explains "emergence" in SL) is THE MAKING OF SECOND LIFE by Wagner James Au.
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah PaB was in his blog lol
Bruce Mowbray: copyright 2008.
Ewan Bonham: So, ethics.
Ewan Bonham: what else?
Ewan Bonham: certain roles?
SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed
Ewan Bonham: I imagine different folks come in her taking this on with varying levels of involvement
SophiaSharon Larnia: and that all is ok :)
Ewan Bonham: Some, literally take on roles
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Ewan, and differing degrees of emotional attachment.
Ewan Bonham: or the roles take on them

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: good point, Ewan!
Ewan Bonham: other immerse themselves as if this were completely real in all ways
Ewan Bonham: others put on kinda a pseudo character
Ewan Bonham: Doing what they always imagined they would do
Ewan Bonham: I wonder what studies would make of that
Ewan Bonham: i think it is fascinating
Ewan Bonham: I use it for personal growth.
Bruce Mowbray: There is a chapter in the book titled, "Self-Made Mankind" that deals specifically with some of those issues.
Bruce Mowbray: This is anthropologically significant ---
Bruce Mowbray: never happened before in human history.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go all, good night !!
Bruce Mowbray: Whew! She didn't give us a chance to say "Good Night, Sharon!" (sorry Bruce, I was waiting for someone in rl, and just then they pulled into my driveway)
Bruce Mowbray: Growth -- yes, I definitely agree with that, Ewan.
Bruce Mowbray: Ewan.
Ewan Bonham: Well, i will take off as well.
Ewan Bonham: thanks for your points, bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Me too -- It's my bedtime.
Bruce Mowbray: May you both be well.
Calvino Rabeni: Goodbye - Dream well :)
Bruce Mowbray: See you later, Cal.
Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)