2010.08.13 07:00 - We Can Also Rest in Time

    The guardian for this session was Eliza Madrigal, who decided to overlap the earlier session just a tiny bit for clarity's sake.


    Bruce Mowbray: May I suggest a real-world application here?
    Sharry Ragu: please do
    Bruce Mowbray: [bell's going to ring in a moment....]
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll try to squeeze it in before the bell....
    Eliza Madrigal: In SL we can see when someone makes a change... they may show up as a cat or diff gender... we dont see that in RL but I think it happens...
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sorry Bruce. Listening :)

    Baeric Constantine: Eliza, I can show pictures of it happening the same in the physical realm as in the virtual realm
    RawVegan Serenity: i agree with Eliza
    Adams Dubrovna: Time for me to go. bye everyone and thanks
    Pema Pera: bye Adams!
    Bruce Mowbray: If we approach others with the intention of being present, attentive, and receptive . . . rather than focusing (sorry, Darren) on some particular thing, our chances of compassion and equinimity are enhanced.
    Darren Islar: bye Adams
    Pema Pera: /me nods at Bruce
    Darren Islar: /me also nods
    Eliza Madrigal: /me smiles
    Uns Mistwalker: yes bruce...if one is choosing to privilege compassion and equanimity.
    Bruce Mowbray: Are we in the PaB session now? Or the time session? Or both...!
    Fefonz Quan: /me trice that
    Sharry Ragu: equinimity.. yes, I like that word
    Darren Islar: /me was just saying a light focus is always there, like 'focussing' on being attentive)
    Eliza Madrigal: we're on the edge Bruce
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bruce: should there be a difference ? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes Darren, the word 'intention' can be heard as focus also...
    Bruce Mowbray: cool. I break bread with the Edge.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: /me muses: In a sense, EVERY space is liminal.
    Bruce Mowbray: a threshhold.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm...
    Bruce Mowbray: always going through the "doorway" into the next moment.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: arising...

    Pema Pera: but strangely the doorway can also allow a kind of abiding
    Bruce Mowbray: Did anyone here notice a profound different between 5:59 slt and 7:01 slt?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi qt
    Qt Core: hi all
    Bruce Mowbray: I mean 6:59 and 7:01.
    Eliza Madrigal: Say more about 'abiding' Pema?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Qt.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :)
    RawVegan Serenity: no sorry
    Pema Pera: hmm . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Pema Pera: a doorway suggests movement
    Pema Pera: and a moment of time has a sense of movement in one way
    Pema Pera: but can also have a sense of rest
    Pema Pera: we normally say that we move through time
    Baeric Constantine: alternative a doorway suggests passage to a new realm that may incur movement or may not
    Pema Pera: but we can also rest in time

    Bruce Mowbray: A doorway also suggests potential for a new (fresh) experience.
    Pema Pera: abiding may not be static -- perhaps it can be used in a way beyond the dichotomy of static versus dynamic
    Fefonz Quan: A doorway can also suggest allowing me to rest here, while inviting others/appereciations/Time to get inside for a while
    Eliza Madrigal: resting in time... yes that seems like an edgy balance of relaxed and aware
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice Fef
    Uns Mistwalker: and in that sence, i think pema...timeless
    Pema Pera: /me considers again a cat resting on the carpet, but ready to jump through the doorway when a bird appears :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: somehow not 'divided' in attention
    Darren Islar: /me is pondering about resting in 'time'
    Sharry Ragu: /me is thinking it is way past her bedtime
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Sharry, see you again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night sharry
    Darren Islar: a doorway to dreamland:)
    Pema Pera: bye Sharry!
    Uns Mistwalker: goodnight Sharry.
    Qt Core: 'night Sharry
    Baeric Constantine: I think I shall take my leave too people.
    Sharry Ragu: thank you all, have fresh moments! :))
    Darren Islar: I'm going to
    Pema Pera: hi Zen and bye Baeric
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye gearic
    Darren Islar: see you all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Baeric and Darren :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Qt Core: Bye Darren
    Fefonz Quan: bye Sharry, Darren (again :)), Baeric
    Baeric Constantine: thank you for the doorways to awareness of the magic of time :)
    Eliza Madrigal: /me smiles
    Baeric Constantine: thake care all
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Baeric Constantine: ciao
    RawVegan Serenity: HI
    Uns Mistwalker: hi zen.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zen

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen, we've been talking about 'abiding'... resting in time...
    Zen Arado: sounds good :)
    RawVegan Serenity: Doorways symbolise the unknown yet familar
    RawVegan Serenity: oops
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting Raw, go on?
    Eliza Madrigal: oops?
    Bruce Mowbray: In RL, rituals are used to signify passage through life's "doorways."
    RawVegan Serenity: Well Its part of the human experience that we must pass through portholes
    RawVegan Serenity: to achieve anything
    Zen Arado: bumpy transitions?
    RawVegan Serenity: we pass through time
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    RawVegan Serenity: birth
    RawVegan Serenity: death
    RawVegan Serenity: many things
    RawVegan Serenity: and there are many portholes (doors)in reality
    RawVegan Serenity: So we are familar with the act of passing through
    RawVegan Serenity: However
    RawVegan Serenity: None of us know
    RawVegan Serenity: what is behind that porthole of life
    Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.
    RawVegan Serenity: time
    Pema Pera: /me nods
    RawVegan Serenity: birth
    RawVegan Serenity: death
    RawVegan Serenity: so it is familiar yet unfamiliar

    Zen Arado: if we smooth the transitions somehow - no doorways needed?
    Fefonz Quan: why should we smooth them? they are the stuff life is made off
    Eliza Madrigal: what if we're the portal..
    Pema Pera: yes, Raw, you seem to be anticipating the next Time chapter that I just posted: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Chapter_3:_Magic%2C_a_Reality_Check
    Pema Pera: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: well then we must go from physical to a huigher plne
    RawVegan Serenity: plane
    Fefonz Quan: A great title Pema, seems as relevant as always
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Pema , can't wait to read this :)

    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps rituals are needed to provide continuity and support as we pass through life's doorways into potentially "bumpy" new-ness.
    Pema Pera: sure!
    Pema Pera: they help and also accentuate

    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe what Darren was calling "focus" is a sort of ritual we use with awareness practice.

    Uns Mistwalker: the issue of not knowing what is beyond this life is an epistemological one.
    RawVegan Serenity: Does anyone else feel that rituals hold back humans
    RawVegan Serenity: in their quest
    Zen Arado: was thinking of the Metta Sutra - 'Those who achieve the way will be freed fro the duality of birth and death'
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i do sometimes RawV
    Pema Pera: nice point, Bruce!
    RawVegan Serenity: ooops im personalising everyones experiences with my own
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Rituals done for their own sake do hold us back -- can even harm us.
    RawVegan Serenity: i dont mean to generalise
    RawVegan Serenity: yes
    Uns Mistwalker: Rituals make culture.
    Eliza Madrigal: not at all Raw... interesting questions...
    Fefonz Quan: if rituals become just another pattern, repetition of behavior - they can be drawbacks
    Zen Arado: aren't rituals dsigned to smooth difficult transitions?
    RawVegan Serenity: yes they do make culture i agree
    Uns Mistwalker: (and vice versa)
    Zen Arado: but Bruce said that already
    Uns Mistwalker: agreed fefonz, and zen
    RawVegan Serenity: however .....is culture alawya a good thing
    RawVegan Serenity: deoending on the culture ?
    Pema Pera: sorry to leave a bit early, but it's getting close to midnight for me

    Eliza Madrigal: what if no quest...

    Pema Pera: thank you all for coming here!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :) Night
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Pema -- and Thanks!
    RawVegan Serenity: and how they operate
    Zen Arado: bye Pema
    Uns Mistwalker: thank you Pema, i have benefitted!
    Qt Core: bye Pema
    Fefonz Quan: bye Pema, looking forward for the 3rd chapter to read!
    RawVegan Serenity: ooo my typos
    RawVegan Serenity: bye pema
    Pema Pera: bfn, and nice to meet so many new faces!
    Fefonz Quan: I would say, like any other tool, rituals can be used to benefit from or to harm
    Pema Pera: glad you're enjoying these meetings
    Eliza Madrigal: /me nods @ Fef....
    RawVegan Serenity: yes i agree fef
    Eliza Madrigal: "there is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare
    Zen Arado: yes but we seem to need them
    Fefonz Quan: they can be a too-easy points for attachment, exchanging them for the real exploration
    RawVegan Serenity: if it wasnt for ritual hand washing disease would be widespread
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, but too much handwashing creates 'superbugs'
    RawVegan Serenity: yes

    Zen Arado: I hate weddings but everyone slse seems to love them
    Fefonz Quan: you
    RawVegan Serenity: hate seams a string word zen
    RawVegan Serenity: whats the reason ?
    Fefonz Quan: you've just been to the wrong weddings Zen ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: ok strong dislike anyway :)
    RawVegan Serenity: haha i wrote string
    Eliza Madrigal: I had aversion to rituals for a long time...
    RawVegan Serenity: lol
    Zen Arado: they go on so long
    Bruce Mowbray: /me loved the wedding but hated the marriage.
    Eliza Madrigal: very inconvenient when one is a mother responsible for gift buying and such...
    RawVegan Serenity: haha bruce
    Fefonz Quan: hehehe Bruce :)
    Uns Mistwalker: It is Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, when it became a choice...
    Eliza Madrigal: when I began not to partake just because of outside expectations...
    Eliza Madrigal: then there was joy there
    Eliza Madrigal: not being 'trapped'
    Uns Mistwalker: Yes. And in those who noticed you not partaking?
    Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Eliza - - one of the reasons I've chosen to be a hermit, mostly.
    Eliza Madrigal: well... it can be funny. People see one person not doing something, and they think "Oh, you can do that?"
    Eliza Madrigal: "just step out?"
    Zen Arado: if it was my own wedding I'm sure I would enjoy it - so I'm selfish I guess
    Uns Mistwalker: so liberating for some of them too!
    Eliza Madrigal: then you do it again.. and it becomes more a dance I guess
    Uns Mistwalker: the function of weddings is to make it clear two people are off the market.
    Fefonz Quan: Zen, you would be surprised at how many people miss the enjoyment of their wedding, due to the stress, pressure, expectattions etc.
    Zen Arado: and to 'solemnise, make everything official and serious?
    Uns Mistwalker: I agree, fefonz
    Eliza Madrigal: well, also that the families may come together and bless the occasion
    Eliza Madrigal: and by doing that they 'get on board'
    Uns Mistwalker: yes...makes it clear that by God, if this goes bad, there'll be consequences!
    Zen Arado: because it is supposed to be a lasting arrangement
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: what about other rituals?
    Eliza Madrigal: like, when in Windhorse we heard about teens perhaps staying in the forest for a few days...
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    Bruce Mowbray: Some of the cultural "uses" of weddings are important (announcing them "off the market," for example, but I prefer to see the ritual (wedding) as an assist through the "doorway" ...
    RawVegan Serenity: Unfortunately our species is very different from how it started.
    RawVegan Serenity: Look at pomp and ceremony that surrounds modern weddings
    Zen Arado: thinking that some of these portals are also seen as a kind of test of commitment
    Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.
    Bruce Mowbray: absolutely so, Zen.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure
    Bruce Mowbray: even a "trial" -- like a visionquest.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: so the transition is made bumpy deliberately
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fef :)
    Uns Mistwalker: yes, 'Justice' is operationally defined as adequate performance of the ritual.!
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Fef
    Fefonz Quan: good bye all, have a good weekend
    Eliza Madrigal: You too!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care fef
    Zen Arado: bye Fef
    RawVegan Serenity: bye
    Uns Mistwalker: goodbye Fef
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Zen Arado: a hurdle that must be overcome
    Eliza Madrigal: In marriage or anything else, it still comes down to moment to moment choice... one can have all the trappings and have run the gambut....
    Eliza Madrigal: it really only matters what is 'active'
    Bruce Mowbray: @ Zen, yes, the transitions is intentionally made bumpy -- but symbolically so. and its bumpiness is understood in that cultural context.
    Eliza Madrigal: and maybe rituals can be tools to that end?
    Eliza Madrigal: like touchstones...
    Zen Arado: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: agreed with Eliza.
    RawVegan Serenity: what if one person in the marriage keeps on travelling through portholes and other doesnt
    Zen Arado: depends what kind of portholes they are I guess:)
    Uns Mistwalker: /me smiles....the boat sinks.
    Zen Arado: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: every heard the line i can change?
    RawVegan Serenity: ever
    Uns Mistwalker: Have spoken it myself....
    RawVegan Serenity: people say it to each other all the time
    Uns Mistwalker: goes with
    Bruce Mowbray: I think it wasthe purpose of patriarchal marriage (husband dominated) to ensure that the wife didn't continue going through portholes.
    Uns Mistwalker: (but i ain't a gunna)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Bruce
    RawVegan Serenity: hey hes got a point
    RawVegan Serenity: lets not get all feminst
    Eliza Madrigal: well, and also people lived far shorter periods...
    Uns Mistwalker: Many want to change, but are ill-equipped.
    Bruce Mowbray: What is the "line I can change...."?
    RawVegan Serenity: i personally feel that womens lib was a bad thing and im a woman
    Eliza Madrigal: well, things go off track Raw....
    RawVegan Serenity: sure do
    Eliza Madrigal: but the essential point, was choices
    Uns Mistwalker: Raw...the problem, I think, is simply there has been no complementary Men's lib.
    RawVegan Serenity: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: and that got lost... became one thing instead of another...
    Eliza Madrigal: or both and exhaustion
    Zen Arado: us poor opressed males...
    Eliza Madrigal: not evenness
    Uns Mistwalker: We do oppress, Zen...but typically do not see the ways in which we ourselves are oppressed.
    Eliza Madrigal: parallels to some of what we've been discussing re the priority of Rest
    Bruce Mowbray: /me feels liberated by whatever "libs" happen: gay lib, women's lib, Black lib, fish lib....
    Uns Mistwalker: ad lib
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Zen Arado: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: wait the whole human race is opressed
    Bruce Mowbray: say more, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: hm...
    Zen Arado: priority of rest?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: /me sneaks out, i hope for more attendance in the voice session then last week :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    RawVegan Serenity: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yes... about that, please.
    Uns Mistwalker: from my point of view....the biggest oppression is the notion we exist.
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Qt Core: bye YAku
    RawVegan Serenity: yes uns
    Uns Mistwalker: bye Yakuzza...thanks so much for bringing me here.
    Bruce Mowbray: bye who ever is leaving.
    Eliza Madrigal: Uns, yes that is a bit of what I was considering too... that we set ourselves up 'against'...
    Zen Arado: is equality always a good thing?
    Eliza Madrigal: not if it is dull
    RawVegan Serenity: women where always equal to men
    Uns Mistwalker: equality does not mean sameness
    Eliza Madrigal: we trap one another.... flatten life...
    Uns Mistwalker: yes eliza
    Zen Arado: not physically though Raw
    Eliza Madrigal: Right.... it is about stuckness and roles
    RawVegan Serenity: its just they did not realise
    RawVegan Serenity: i agree
    RawVegan Serenity: equality does not mean sameness
    RawVegan Serenity: thats my point
    RawVegan Serenity: no we where not the same
    Zen Arado: we can't force everyone into a mold
    RawVegan Serenity: but we were equal
    Eliza Madrigal: and also, we make decisions 'for a time' and it is easy for others to stick us into that time...
    Zen Arado: not allowing us to change
    Eliza Madrigal: like still wearing the same hair from 1970 because it was the best, then :)
    Eliza Madrigal: we can appreciate that hair... and STILL change
    Uns Mistwalker: yes, Eliza...a particular issue parents are prone to.
    Zen Arado: is change so important ?
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    RawVegan Serenity: yes but is it a change for the better eliza
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    Eliza Madrigal: seems change is life... for better or worse ;-)
    RawVegan Serenity: very true

    Zen Arado: novelty maybe I was thinking of
    RawVegan Serenity: adaptation
    Zen Arado: like being bored with what is and wanting to escape
    RawVegan Serenity: are you zen ?
    Zen Arado: sometimes
    Uns Mistwalker: bored = needs not being met
    RawVegan Serenity: whys that?
    Zen Arado: but not as much as before
    Zen Arado: don't know
    Zen Arado: stayin present more
    RawVegan Serenity: do you ever feel your self in the moment zen
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: ha
    RawVegan Serenity: i was just asking that
    Zen Arado: appreciate my life more
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely, Zen
    Zen Arado: not sure Raw
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, there's the rest
    Zen Arado: they say if you are you don't know it
    RawVegan Serenity: The Zen ill share this with you the only way i can live my life is in the moment
    RawVegan Serenity: for now

    Eliza Madrigal: /me musing that the abiding seems the stance of appreciating arising...
    Zen Arado: I know the theory but the practice is lacking a lot of the time
    RawVegan Serenity: If i start to fantasize about a future that might be when i come back to reality i feel some kind of angst
    Eliza Madrigal: when we move away from that centerless center then we get exhausted, restless.....
    RawVegan Serenity: yes
    Zen Arado: I know
    RawVegan Serenity: its good to be here
    RawVegan Serenity: right now
    Zen Arado: but old habits die hard
    RawVegan Serenity: thats all we have
    Eliza Madrigal: they don't have to die...
    Zen Arado: yes it is Raw
    Zen Arado: mine do :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: aww

    Eliza Madrigal: you know what's fun....
    Eliza Madrigal: to make a (hah yes I'm about to say this) project of going 'back'
    RawVegan Serenity: back to where
    Eliza Madrigal: into all the things you let die...or cut off
    RawVegan Serenity: oh no lol
    RawVegan Serenity: im not into that
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah... well, what I mean is that sometimes we actually give them charge
    Eliza Madrigal: by closing a door
    RawVegan Serenity: ahhh i see
    Uns Mistwalker: yes, the 'disowned self' can be pretty noisy
    RawVegan Serenity: so you are saying by closing that door on them
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    RawVegan Serenity: we allow them to shape our lives
    RawVegan Serenity: because they have no part in it
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps, in some cases...
    RawVegan Serenity: interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: the absence of something still shapes a space?

    Bruce Mowbray: "Going back" and opening doors for things we'd cut off is one way of healing -- and maybe we're able, now, to benefit from those things -- whereas when we first encountered them, we were not ready.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes

    Zen Arado: if we give them attention we can make them too important maybe
    Uns Mistwalker: it is not truly an absence
    RawVegan Serenity: i think you may be onto something
    Uns Mistwalker: but rather a refusal to attend to the ways in which something persists.
    RawVegan Serenity: depending on if that thing was toxic
    Eliza Madrigal: just seeing them can be like an exposure...
    RawVegan Serenity: sometimes we shut the door on the toxic then fine leave it there
    Eliza Madrigal: a snapshot

    Zen Arado: this idea of becoming open and vulnerable keeps coming up I notice
    Zen Arado: or maybe it is my influence?
    Uns Mistwalker: I think it is the fountain of strength, Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: for me it seems to have to do with equanimity and evenness
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes
    Zen Arado: it often gives an appearance of weakness to others if you do it I think
    Zen Arado: ?
    Uns Mistwalker: Yes it does.
    Uns Mistwalker: (especially for males)
    Eliza Madrigal: or gives permission
    Eliza Madrigal: disarms
    Zen Arado: I often say 'I don't know' but don't see many others do that?
    Uns Mistwalker: /me smiles....careful with that.
    Zen Arado: find that easier than I used to
    Zen Arado: people afraid of losing credibility?
    Bruce Mowbray: /me recalls the joke about males not asking for directions -- being lost but not admitting it.
    Zen Arado: he he
    RawVegan Serenity: its not a joke bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: it is contextual too
    RawVegan Serenity: lol
    Uns Mistwalker: or just having a low tolerance for the feeling of not knowing.
    Eliza Madrigal: "I don't know" in one setting is brave.. in another it can be shying away

    Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
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    RawVegan Serenity: and that the should protect
    Bruce Mowbray: fear of being out of control....
    RawVegan Serenity: Its the basic staple that men should be the leader
    Zen Arado: perhaps it's because I have been practciing 'not knowing ' for a while
    Eliza Madrigal: that's "most intimate" Zen ;-)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: of course Eliza :)
    Zen Arado: so that's why I do it
    Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you.
    Zen Arado: :)
    Uns Mistwalker: That stance of not-knowing is very helpful in the practice of psychotherapy.
    Eliza Madrigal: Have you ever read Rumi's "To Have Without Holding"
    Zen Arado: no Eliza
    Uns Mistwalker: /me can't keep up with the ways Rumi's work gets sliced up commercially.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, not Rumi...
    Eliza Madrigal: Marge. Hah, big difference there :)
    Zen Arado: http://wastenotreadalot.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-have-without-holding-by-marge-piercy_7040.html
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: 'learning to love differently'
    Zen Arado: to get hurt again and again is so difficult
    Zen Arado: maybe it is what we need to overcome selfishness
    Zen Arado: beautiful poem Eliza thanks
    Uns Mistwalker: a beautiful poem.
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, thanks for the poem. I've saved it (am HOLDING it!) ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: /me smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello. Sorry I missed your poem
    Eliza Madrigal: I've actually got to go now... sorry to miss YOU Aph again!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look it up!
    Bruce Mowbray: thank you, Eliza.
    Qt Core: hi Aphrodite, bye Eliza
    Zen Arado: http://wastenotreadalot.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-have-without-holding-by-marge-piercy_7040.html
    Aphrodite Macbain: me too. bye Eliza
    Uns Mistwalker: with regard to doing it, you may find "Love: An Inner Connection...based on principles drawn from the I Ching" valuable.
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: Buona sera Qt
    Eliza Madrigal: I look forward to reading the rest of the log, Night friends :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And day :)

    Uns Mistwalker: good night Eliza.
    Zen Arado: 'It hurts to love wide open' what a line
    Bruce Mowbray: Is there any other way to love?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is it possible
    Zen Arado: no
    Zen Arado: but
    Aphrodite Macbain: although I know how it feels safer to love carefully
    Qt Core: or not to love at all
    Uns Mistwalker: I think it rare to persist in wide-openness
    Aphrodite Macbain: must be very sure of oneself
    Bruce Mowbray: "be of love a little more careful than of everything." -- e.e. cummings
    Zen Arado: guarded hearts
    Zen Arado: with padlocks
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce - did that justcome into your head?
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, it did.
    Aphrodite Macbain: or your back pocket?
    Zen Arado: is it good advice Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: I've loved e.e. cummings love poems for decades.
    Uns Mistwalker: one is careful with anything precious.
    Aphrodite Macbain: must learn to handle ourselves/the loved one gently
    Zen Arado: it always involves a leap of faith somewhere though?
    Uns Mistwalker: yes. Aphrodite...
    Zen Arado: yes Aphrodite
    Qt Core: faith that the other would not (at least) stab you
    Uns Mistwalker: and Zen...i have heard it said that to love is always based on insufficient data...so yes.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have just invited a a friend to join us. Bleu Levasseur. Hope you dont mind
    Zen Arado: not at all
    Bruce Mowbray: Being in love means not needing to have more data.
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu have a cushion
    Bleu Levasseur: hi everyone..
    Qt Core: Hi Bleu
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu have a cushion
    Bleu Levasseur: waiting for everyone and everything to rezz!
    Uns Mistwalker: Bruce, we need no more....because we have mentally filled in all the blanks.
    Aphrodite Macbain: she's still rezzing
    Zen Arado: yes - we often create an unreal image I think
    Bleu Levasseur: that's better
    Bleu Levasseur: an unreal image?
    RawVegan Serenity: ill be back later everonr
    Bleu Levasseur: as in how our avi looks..or how we come across?
    Zen Arado: that's why we call it a 'romanticized ' view
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, RVS.
    RawVegan Serenity: got some rl stuff to do
    Zen Arado: Bye RVS
    Bleu Levasseur: byee
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    RawVegan Serenity: byew everone xxxx
    Qt Core: bye RawVegan
    Zen Arado: was thinking more of RL Bleu
    Bleu Levasseur: kk
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu was the first person to introduce me to SL she found me in Africa
    Bleu Levasseur: sorry, hard to pick up as i've just come in
    Zen Arado: we fill in the blanks in a very optimistic way :)
    Bleu Levasseur: haha, yes aphrodite..
    Uns Mistwalker: But the truth is the same....in sl there are simply a lot more blanks to fill in!
    Bleu Levasseur: the sim is sadly depeleted these days
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu, these conversations are recorded. Is that OK with you?
    Bleu Levasseur: of course
    Bleu Levasseur: but ty anyway
    Bleu Levasseur: who reads them, afterwards?
    Zen Arado: I have to go
    Bleu Levasseur: are you on voice?
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Aphrodite Macbain: No
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Zen.
    Bleu Levasseur: bye zen
    Bleu Levasseur: ty bruce
    Qt Core: all the world at www.playasbeing.org ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: but they have been meeting for the past hour
    Bleu Levasseur: ah
    Bruce Mowbray: actually. some of us for 2 hours!
    Uns Mistwalker: I've been here for over two hours now...and i think i was late.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- this is the person I was telling you about
    Bleu Levasseur: heavens!!
    Qt Core: when you can even find out something more about pab
    Bleu Levasseur: rl too busy , generally, to spend that long on sl !
    Bruce Mowbray: almost two and a half hours, actually.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's a very engaging group
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Bleu - Aph's friend.
    Bleu Levasseur: hi bruce :)
    Bleu Levasseur: good to chat properly to people on sl
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu, Bruce is also a good friend and has taken me through some technical challeges
    Bleu Levasseur: rather than 'hi' and 'bye' from most
    Bleu Levasseur: good on yer bruce!
    Bleu Levasseur: says she, in her best monty python voice
    Uns Mistwalker laughs...
    Bleu Levasseur: sorry brucee, you must get fed up with people doing that
    Bleu Levasseur: promise nit to, ever again
    Uns Mistwalker: then says bye.
    Bleu Levasseur: bye uns
    Aphrodite Macbain: Qt are you living in Italy?
    Bleu Levasseur: didn't mean to type brucee either, sorry
    Qt Core: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: mmm. where?
    Qt Core: near Milan
    Bruce Mowbray: np -- Bleu. That's why this is my favorite sim -- we play, we get serious, we play with words, we use words with great focus and intentionality -- We do the FULL spectrum here.
    Aphrodite Macbain: the Full monty
    Bleu Levasseur: blimey ..i log on to sl to chill!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: you can chill here too!
    Bleu Levasseur: but love talking properly to people and playing with words
    Bruce Mowbray: we also chill here. Come back here at 1 p.m. slt and you'll see chillin' like you've never see it before!
    Bleu Levasseur: used to be able to do that at millpond, many moons ago
    Bleu Levasseur: talk etc
    Bleu Levasseur: i may well be asleep by then, bruce..
    Bleu Levasseur: i am knackered!!
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bleu Levasseur: and in london it will be 9 o clock
    Aphrodite Macbain: she's in England - that's why she talks funny :-)
    Bleu Levasseur: p.m.
    Bleu Levasseur: :PPPPP
    Bleu Levasseur: la la la
    Aphrodite Macbain: hahah
    Bruce Mowbray: I stayed up late to watch the Persiods last night -- and slept late this morning because of that -- came here late too, unfortunately.
    Bleu Levasseur: i am exhausted after 2 weeks holiday
    Bleu Levasseur: pooh
    Aphrodite Macbain: Persiods?
    Bleu Levasseur: we were in countryside til the day before

    Bruce Mowbray: meteor shower.
    Qt Core: have you seen some Bruce ?
    Bleu Levasseur: no chance of seeing them/it in london
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh of course - what time did you watch them?
    Bruce Mowbray: yes I saw a few last night. Will be going on into the field tonight also.
    Bleu Levasseur: light pollutoin ruins most things in the sky
    Aphrodite Macbain: You are in the best place to watch them
    Bruce Mowbray: I watched until about 2 a.m.
    Bleu Levasseur: who is, aphrodite?
    Bruce Mowbray: yes -- new moon and clousless sky here.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Wer they beautiful?
    Bruce Mowbray: no city lights, either.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce lives in the country in Ohio
    Bleu Levasseur: kk
    Bleu Levasseur: i was in the hills/coast til wednesday evening
    Qt Core: clouds, light pollution and humidity, not the best conditions here :-(
    Bleu Levasseur: we timed our holiday a bit wrong!
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, I regard them as beautiful - - and fleeting.
    Bleu Levasseur: i', rubbish at seeing shooting stars
    Bleu Levasseur: i'm*
    Aphrodite Macbain: get all teary?
    Bleu Levasseur: everyone else sees them, but i manage to be always looking in wrong place
    Aphrodite Macbain: they are so distant and yet very present -
    Aphrodite Macbain: most of the bodies w see in the heavens are 1000s of light years away
    Bleu Levasseur: one of life's treasuress
    Bruce Mowbray: One must open her "view" to maximum aperature. . . taking in the whole sky.
    Aphrodite Macbain: These are in the here and now
    Bleu Levasseur: seeing things like that
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice metaphor Bruce
    Bleu Levasseur: one's not too good at that, bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Our planet actually passes through the tail of a former comet -- and that's the Persiod Shower.
    Bleu Levasseur: always on the lookout for other things, like owls
    Bleu Levasseur: there are many beautiful things at night, to see
    Bruce Mowbray: The Milky Way is clearly visible here.
    Qt Core: (envy)
    Qt Core: :)
    Bleu Levasseur: you are fortunate to be able to see the sky whenever you want to, bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: N views from Milano?
    Aphrodite Macbain: no view
    Qt Core: from the big light bulge that Milan is ? no
    Bleu Levasseur: same for london
    Bleu Levasseur: high level of light pollution
    Qt Core: end even going into the mountainst you have to choose well
    Bruce Mowbray: Our nearest big city is 45 miles away -- can see just a glow on the horizon.
    Qt Core: even with rigid low pollution laws, yes
    Bleu Levasseur: we need to go about an hour out from where we live
    Bleu Levasseur: and we are in greater london, not inner london]
    Bruce Mowbray: Folks, it's getting hot here - and I want to get out with my dog before it's too HOT to do that.
    Qt Core: the opposite here, nearest black enough place at at least 100km
    Bleu Levasseur: 18 degrees here
    Bruce Mowbray: and I've been sitting for 1 1/2 hours in both SL and RL....
    Bruce Mowbray: so I shall say, Bye to all!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Giveve bea a pat for me and let him jump in the stream
    Bleu Levasseur: whew..too long, patient dog!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bear
    Bleu Levasseur: bye bruce
    Qt Core: bye Bruce and Bruce doc
    Qt Core: doig
    Qt Core: ok, dog!
    Aphrodite Macbain: haha
    Bleu Levasseur: hahaha. glad i'm ot the only one, qt
    Aphrodite Macbain: Qt are you the Guardian today?
    Qt Core: no
    Bleu Levasseur: tell me about being guardian
    Qt Core: but as the funtain don't complain someone already claimed the log
    Aphrodite Macbain: As far as I can understand it, there are people responsile for facilitating these discussions and then ensuring the conversations are logged onto the wb site
    Qt Core: nothing weird, one of the guardian should claim the log and post it on the web, nothing more, nothimg less
    Bleu Levasseur: ah, ok thanx
    Bleu Levasseur: why do you want it on website?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's interesting to read the log - some wonderful insightful poetic statements are made here
    Qt Core: so pabbers not able to go to all the sessions (none is) can read them
    Bleu Levasseur: kk ty...
    Aphrodite Macbain: Pabbers are Play as Being attenders
    Bleu Levasseur: you would need a lot of time to do that
    Qt Core: 4 session a day 7 day a week
    Bleu Levasseur: haha, wondered!
    Qt Core: 1 and 7, both am and pm
    Aphrodite Macbain: so there always is a discussion going on wherever you live
    Aphrodite Macbain: in the world
    Bleu Levasseur: i'm not online that long, usually
    Qt Core: yes, this is a dangerous place, for rl productivity ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes but when you are on line, there is likely to be a PAB discussion. Bookmark it if you like
    Bleu Levasseur: i wouldn't say dangerous
    Bleu Levasseur: we need all sorts on sl
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is very distracting from RL
    Bleu Levasseur: i've always managed to be diciplined about time on sl
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's easier for me as I work at home.
    Bleu Levasseur: always put rl first
    Qt Core: i just switched most of the tv time to online activities
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes - and you have alot of responsibility there I know!
    Aphrodite Macbain: in RL Bleu
    Bleu Levasseur: haha...had a wonderful time
    Bleu Levasseur: don't watch tv either
    Bleu Levasseur: catch up on iplayer tho
    Aphrodite Macbain: Well it's time for breakfast here. I'm glad I was able to introduce you to PaB Bleu
    Aphrodite Macbain: and I hope we can talk again soon.
    Bleu Levasseur: ty aphrodite
    Qt Core: have a nice day Aphrodite
    Bleu Levasseur: enjoy breakfast, too!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ciao Qt. Ci vediamo
    Bleu Levasseur: take care and see you soonxx
    Qt Core: Ciao!
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye
    Bleu Levasseur: and nice to meet you, qt
    Qt Core: same here Bleu

    The above-referenced poem for those who prefer not to click:

    To Have Without Holding: Marge Piercy

    To Have Without Holding
    Marge Piercy
    Learning to love differently is hard,
    love with the hands wide open, love
    with the doors banging on their hinges,
    the cupboard unlocked, the wind
    roaring and whimpering in the rooms
    rustling the sheets and snapping the blinds
    that thwack like rubber bands
    in an open palm.
    It hurts to love wide open
    stretching the muscles that feel
    as if they are made of wet plaster,
    then of blunt knives, then
    of sharp knives.
    It hurts to thwart the reflexes
    of grab, of clutch; to love and let
    go again and again. It pesters to remember
    the lover who is not in the bed,
    to hold back what is owed to the work
    that gutters like a candle in a cave
    without air, to love consciously,
    conscientiously, concretely, constructively.
    I can't do it, you say it's killing
    me, but you thrive, you glow
    on the street like a neon raspberry,
    You float and sail, a helium balloon
    bright bachelor's button blue and bobbing
    on the cold and hot winds of our breath,
    as we make and unmake in passionate
    diastole and systole the rhythm
    of our unbound bonding, to have
    and not to hold, to love
    with minimized malice, hunger
    and anger moment by moment balanced.
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