2009.12.26 13:00 - Unpacking Anger

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments will be filled in later by SophiaSharon Larnia.

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza :)
Liza Deischer: Hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: you had a good christmasday?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :) always too short after the preparations though, how about you?
Liza Deischer: yes, I have
Liza Deischer: the preparations take longer then the day intself
Liza Deischer: itself
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, parties and such leading up to it...
SophiaSharon Larnia: its almost like you expect it to last a week
Liza Deischer: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen
Liza Deischer: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia and Liza
SophiaSharon Larnia: how was your christmas day, Zen?
Zen Arado: ok I go to my neice's house
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Zen Arado: and your's?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i found myself doing several dropping exercises in a room full of people :) Good, Zen
Zen Arado: dropping what?
Liza Deischer: thats the real work :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, challenging for me
SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping in the PaB sense
Zen Arado: I dropped a wine galss
Liza Deischer: :-)
Zen Arado: bought some plastic ones today
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah yes, i dropped a pair of scissors on my foot
SophiaSharon Larnia: (closed) haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: good idea!
Liza Deischer: autch
Zen Arado: Hi Calvino :)
Liza Deischer: hi Cal
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Zen and everyone!
Zen Arado: that coild be dangerous Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes! it was quite hectic at the time
Zen Arado: dropping anger Sophia?
Liza Deischer: sme things you shouldn't drop
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Liza Deischer: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
Liza Deischer: hi Yakuzza
Zen Arado: old family resentments can boil up at Christmas
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: just drop what I am, what I have, to see what is left
Calvino Rabeni: konnichiwa, yaku-san
SophiaSharon Larnia: and I just saw other bengs int he room, all explorers
SophiaSharon Larnia: beings*
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: hi Sophia
sophia Placebo: hi sharon , all
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia P
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey SP
Zen Arado: other beings?
Zen Arado: ah I see what you mean
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, hard to explain, other thinking beings like myself, what are we all underneath that
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: "One reason anger is so painful is that it constructs such a powerful sense of self and other. In this way, anger strongly resembles fear." Shaoron Sakzber
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah well, still experimenting with it
Zen Arado: anger separates
Zen Arado: so love rejoins?
SophiaSharon Larnia: there is little that makes you feel your ego as much as anger does, the way i see it
Liza Deischer: passion?
Zen Arado: yes you become ego protective don't you?
--BELL--
Zen Arado: especially if other person accuses you of being slefish, lazy etc.
SophiaSharon Larnia: would that apply to any strong emotion then?
Zen Arado: but you an have good emotions too?
Liza Deischer: there is anger, and there is attachement, both very powerfl=ul
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
Calvino Rabeni: You can ask, what is it that anger wants you to DO?
Liza Deischer: hi Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos
Zen Arado: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: HI Avs!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
sophia Placebo: hi eos
Yakuzza Lethecus: just avs ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: not beings ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me, anger wants to erase separation
SophiaSharon Larnia: if you feel something strongly, isnt that being attached to it in some way
Eos Amaterasu: are we not beings? we are Being!
Calvino Rabeni: It comes because the separation has already happened
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Zen Arado: but anger can reinforce separation I think
Liza Deischer: hi Steven
Zen Arado: Hi Stevenia
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi steven
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zon
Zen Arado: you become defensive
Liza Deischer: hi Zon
Eos Amaterasu: hi steve, zon
Zen Arado: Hi Zon
Zon Quar: heya
Zen Arado: or attacking
Calvino Rabeni: You can ask about any emotion - when you are in it - what does it want you to DO, and for what purpose
sophia Placebo: cant anger be just an alert ?
Eos Amaterasu: it is
Eos Amaterasu: then I add more
Zen Arado: ever notice how you don't want to reveal too much to someone after you have had a row with them?
Calvino Rabeni: Emotions are DOING things, not "feelings"
Eos Amaterasu: ways of being?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont understand that Calvino, can you say more?
Liza Deischer: I agree Cal
Eos Amaterasu: how you handle reality
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, emotions are compelling because they are about doing things in the world, about acting
Eos Amaterasu: freeze it out with anger, suck it in with passion
Calvino Rabeni: And about communication , about social situations, about things needing to change
Calvino Rabeni: Emotions are more communications for others, than feelings for oneself
Liza Deischer: hi Tarmel
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram, and Tarmel :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bert, tamel :)
Liza Deischer: hi Bertram
Zen Arado: Hi Bert
Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Tarmel!, Hi Bert,
Tarmel Udimo: hello everyone! and merry christmas:)
Calvino Rabeni: western psychology wanted to say emotions were private internal experiences
Calvino Rabeni: but they are not, they are social, that is why we feel disturbed by them
Calvino Rabeni: because they ask one to be social
Calvino Rabeni: which seems dangerous
Liza Deischer: most people don't make difference between emotions and feelings
Zon Quar: nods, emotion causes motion
Calvino Rabeni: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm afraid I still don't understand... I have a friend who is very ill, and I've been very angry about that, although there in no one to be angry at, and no way to fix things.
sophia Placebo: bbl
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: so is that personal emotion in the same sense as you mean?
Eos Amaterasu: I think just letting that be in its rawness is quite okay
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, your friend is ill, and anger tells you, that you are the kind of person who would make your friend well, if only you could
Eos Amaterasu: without pushing or puling it, of course :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hypothesis: the first flash of anything is okay
Liza Deischer: and if you could and you would know what makes you angry, you want to show your anger
Calvino Rabeni: And also the anger tells others you would make your friend well if you could
Calvino Rabeni: If you didn't have it, others might think you would not do that, would not care
Liza Deischer: I disagree Eos
Zon Quar: coud u say feelingsare build in emotions thta then act as energy for action ?
Calvino Rabeni: they are energy for action, you can use them that way
Calvino Rabeni: they want different things, depending on their quality
Eos Amaterasu: Liza, how about in next 90 sec period watching the first flash of anger (if it pops up) or any other emotion
Liza Deischer: ok
--BELL--
Zon Quar: or could u say a feeling arises when u receive information in from ur environment throught ur senses, and then u process that information and feelings, which causes in u an emotion to act out in a certain way ?
Liza Deischer: there are only a few emotions, but a lot of different feelings
Eos Amaterasu: what did you experience?
Liza Deischer: inpatience
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Liza Deischer: feels like being angry a little :-)
Eos Amaterasu: yes.... I get that a lot while driving :-)
Tarmel Udimo: sorry folks, I just dropped in to say merrry christmas, so I will be off..
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Tarmel, nice to see you!
Liza Deischer: bye tarmel
SophiaSharon Larnia: Merry Christmas Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: BFN
Liza Deischer: i think what we feel first is born out of the habit to feel like that after a certain situation
Eos Amaterasu: yes, quite often
Eos Amaterasu: "love potion #9"
Calvino Rabeni: zon, I was reading your last question
Liza Deischer: that habit can be based on a good 'thing', but can also
Liza Deischer: strengthen your ego
Eos Amaterasu: give it apparent appearance
Zen Arado: Hi Ara
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ara
Zon Quar: ara:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara :)
arabella Ella: good to c u all on st stephens day
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello :)
Liza Deischer: on what ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: st stephen with a rose, in and out of the garden he goes
Zen Arado: anger at the way things go is not healthy - you either do something about it or forget the anger I think
arabella Ella: people call it boxing day but i find that too conflictual
Eos Amaterasu: wherever he goes the people all complain
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: boxing dag!
arabella Ella: in a christmas carol people sing 'on the feast of stephen' fafalala
Zen Arado: Good King Wencelas looked out...
Calvino Rabeni: Eos, who can give the answer to the answer man?
Liza Deischer: ok, wel never heard of the guy
arabella Ella: :)
Liza Deischer: :-)
arabella Ella: u have now
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Liza Deischer: yes :-)
arabella Ella: name day for all people called stephen is today
Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia!
Liza Deischer: ah, thats what it is about
arabella Ella: yes
Zen Arado: Hi Bolo
Liza Deischer: I unerstand your anger Sophia, at least for a part, but I think wat is really interesting is what it is that makes you angry
Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
Liza Deischer: hi Bolo
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bolonath
arabella Ella: apologies for interrupting Soph
SophiaSharon Larnia: nooo no worries
arabella Ella: and Stevenaia is with us again ... happy name day!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Did it matter? does it now? Stephen would answer if he only knew how
SophiaSharon Larnia: (song , :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eden
Zen Arado: Hi EDen
Liza Deischer: ah :-)
Liza Deischer: hi Eden
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eden Haiku: HI !
Eos Amaterasu: Sunlight splatters dawn (=Eos) with answer
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, this anger has been ongoing and tiring, i know its unhealthy, but it seems to arise on its own, not true, of course, but trying to deal with it
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eos Amaterasu: rail, rail against the dying of the light
Liza Deischer: is this anger related to fear?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: "darkness shrugs and bids the day goodbye"
Calvino Rabeni: yes related to fear
Zon Quar: anger should not be repressed
Eos Amaterasu: nor acted out
Zen Arado: 'be the anger' I was told
Zon Quar: watch it
Zen Arado: observe it?
Eos Amaterasu: let it flash - you can't hold on to it
Bolonath Crystal: to look at where the anger comes from would be a good lakshya for meditation
Eos Amaterasu: you make up reasons to recreate it
Zen Arado: don't think 'venting ' is good
Calvino Rabeni: freud thought emotions were substances, like steam in a boiler - a 19th century metaphor
Liza Deischer: being the anger is a way to peal off the layers
Zen Arado: it is ust recreating it
arabella Ella: are the forces that give rise to the anger beyond control?
Liza Deischer: because the anger can't stay, it needs to subside to something different
Eos Amaterasu: discontinuity brings humor, which we get pissed off at, try to deny, in the middle of anger :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: grief
Eos Amaterasu: that's more profound
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: If one imagines an emotion as a being with a message for you, rather than as a substance, what does it mean / want?
Calvino Rabeni: What does grief "want"?
Zen Arado: it wants to flow naturally
Zen Arado: until it subsides
arabella Ella: otherwise?
Calvino Rabeni: What does it want you to know or do?
Zen Arado: listens
Calvino Rabeni: when you are having it, you have the insight from it, not looking from the outside
Calvino Rabeni: I have a personal answer but I wanted to ask others first
arabella Ella: does it not make one feel very vulnerable?
Zon Quar: anger meant thing r not goint teh way i expected
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Liza Deischer: to me grief is not wanting to let go
Zen Arado: my anger is usually because my ego has ben threatened, diminished
arabella Ella: as though a force that wishes to destroy part of us is there ... exists
Calvino Rabeni: what if you let go, what happens?
Liza Deischer: then I fear to be shattered all over the place
Calvino Rabeni: I was proposing, see emotion as a messenger, not a force, then it will reveal something different
Liza Deischer: thinking nothing is left
Liza Deischer: that ego really doesn't exhist
Calvino Rabeni: nothing but a memory>
Liza Deischer: while I am still hoping that I am wrong :-)
Calvino Rabeni: the past still seems to exist as a memory, does grief change it?
Zen Arado: I know but the illusion does :)
Eos Amaterasu: grief can be like a force of nature
Eos Amaterasu: and very close to the nature of nature
Zen Arado: grief is necessary - anger is not
Liza Deischer: messenger.....pondering
Zen Arado: ?
Calvino Rabeni: what does nature want you to know, by bringing grief to you?
Eos Amaterasu: nature has no agenda
arabella Ella: exposes weaknesses ... vulnerability
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats the worst for me to ponder
Eos Amaterasu: "the mother does not take sides - she cares only for the balance of nature" - from "Avatar"
Zon Quar: nature says,, u did it wrong somehow
Calvino Rabeni: seems painful
Calvino Rabeni: I believe all the emotions have their positive message
Bolonath Crystal: i also think so, cal
Liza Deischer: that you can let go
Calvino Rabeni: if one could drop the fear of weakness and vulnerability, what would grief offer then
arabella Ella: perhaps you could share your message with us Calvino as you said you would please?
Bolonath Crystal: negativ emotions show us where we are still attached to ego
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I felt I could let go the fear of loss that is mixed with the grief
Calvino Rabeni: The grief says - you have to let go of something that you are losing
arabella Ella: ah
Calvino Rabeni: It says, what do you make of that?
Calvino Rabeni: I saw from that, it is asking me to treasure things
Calvino Rabeni: and to act in the future like they are important
Calvino Rabeni: by recognizing their meaning in the past
Calvino Rabeni: so it turned into gratitude for what I have
Calvino Rabeni: And I felt that a positive message
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: ty
arabella Ella: but not easy
Calvino Rabeni: Grief can be releasing, but also energizing of a fresh feeling for the future
Liza Deischer: thank you cal, that is a very nice way to look at it
Calvino Rabeni: no not easy
Zen Arado: seeing the preciousness of everything arouns us...
Liza Deischer: no but instead letting grief get the better of you, you are allowing yoursef to use it, act on it
Zen Arado: and how impermanent it is...
Liza Deischer: that's great
Calvino Rabeni: using it, yes, but in a way that IT wants
Calvino Rabeni: It feels authentic, I meant
Liza Deischer: yes, I understand
Liza Deischer: (I need to let the Fool come out)
Calvino Rabeni: THere are different types of people - not a standard model of human
Liza Deischer: (...a bit more)
Calvino Rabeni: with emotions I meant, different proportions
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: does that help Sophia what Cal is offering?
Calvino Rabeni: something about being a self - with different mixes of ongoing emotions
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, Ill have to think about it more :)
Bolonath Crystal bows to everyone. om shanti, have a nice day :)
Calvino Rabeni: the proportions different in different people, some more angry some more fearful, some more sad
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bolonath
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
arabella Ella: bye Bolo
Liza Deischer: bye Bolo
Zen Arado: bye Bolo
Eos Amaterasu: Bye all, festive season to all
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: bye Eos
arabella Ella: bye Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go to work now, but will read the rest of the log when I post it, bye for now :)
Zen Arado: Bye Eos
arabella Ella: bye SophS
Liza Deischer: bye Sophia
Zen Arado: Bye Sharon
Eden Haiku: Bye!
Liza Deischer: Bye Eden
arabella Ella: bye Eden
Zen Arado: Bye Eden
Liza Deischer: Im going too
Liza Deischer: bye for now
Zen Arado: Bye Liza
arabella Ella: nite Liza
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Liza
arabella Ella: could you say more Calvino please?
Calvino Rabeni: yes, i think, it was useful for me to accept that others have different characteristic mixes of emotions
Zen Arado: yes it is interesting
Calvino Rabeni: thus I had less reason to think they were somehow wrong
Calvino Rabeni: or that I was, relative to them
Calvino Rabeni: more acceptance of differences
Calvino Rabeni: second, it is a kind of analytical model of character
arabella Ella listens
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, see you soon
arabella Ella: bye Steve
Calvino Rabeni: bye stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: happy holidays
Zen Arado: I have to go too
arabella Ella: nite Zen
Zen Arado: bye
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
arabella Ella: so Calvino if I may ...
Calvino Rabeni: please
arabella Ella: some people are more sensitive to grief and perhaps anger than others
arabella Ella: those who are genuinely more laid back appear to suffer less
arabella Ella: perhaps because they ... let their grief and anger flow ... or perhaps they drop them ...
arabella Ella: what do you think?
Calvino Rabeni: people vary in their expressivity
arabella Ella: but that is only outward isnt it ... expressivity i mean?
Calvino Rabeni: in the simple model I have in mind, the big three are fear, anger, grief
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and a given person may be motivated primarily by one of those
arabella Ella nods
Calvino Rabeni: and represss one of those to the point of being rather unaware
Calvino Rabeni: an angry person may repress fear
Calvino Rabeni: a fearful person may repress anger
Zon Quar: difference between grief and fear ?
Calvino Rabeni: do they feel different?
Calvino Rabeni: grief seems to be about the past
Calvino Rabeni: fear about the future
Calvino Rabeni: grief about something lost
Calvino Rabeni: fear about something you thing might happen but don't want
arabella Ella: and do you think the three of them always go together ... in your simple model?
Zon Quar: the point seems to be that u desire something and ur deside t gets blocked, so one of those 3 arises
Calvino Rabeni: if I look at my experience there seem to be layers
Calvino Rabeni: an outer one, then others underneath
Calvino Rabeni: under anger may be fear
arabella Ella: is the outer one the image projected to others?
Calvino Rabeni: the anger "wants" the fearful situation to be resolved
Calvino Rabeni: I think it is the one they can see, and the one that the person chooses to communicate
Calvino Rabeni: yes, I agree your statement
Calvino Rabeni: the story gets more complex the more it is looked at
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: zon's question is interesting
Calvino Rabeni: u desire something and ur deside t gets blocked, so one of those 3 arises
Calvino Rabeni: when the desire gets blocked, the "feeling" intensifies
Calvino Rabeni: when it flows, the desire is there, but finding its fulfillment in a flowing way
Calvino Rabeni: so there are two levels - the flowing aspect and the frustrated aspect, which seems rigid and problematical
arabella Ella: yes
Zon Quar: someone tries to come between the object of my desire.. i feel anger or fear of loosing
arabella Ella: and
Zon Quar: or both
arabella Ella: a desire could be blocked by oneself, by others, or by circumstances
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Calvino Rabeni: often by oneself
arabella Ella: not always
Calvino Rabeni: I think there are always ways to work with circumstances
Calvino Rabeni: or usually?
Calvino Rabeni: can a desire be blocked by others?
arabella Ella: at times others cause us unexpected grief and if you reflect you reoalise that they may be blocking or sabotaging a desire acknowledged or not
Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
Calvino Rabeni: and oneself may do that to oneself
arabella Ella: also ... yes
Zon Quar: by having conflicting desires
Calvino Rabeni: it is hard, when the "social climate" is not open to feeling freely
arabella Ella: well are we not always balancing things out in life ... like holding measuring scales to some extent?
Calvino Rabeni: or deeply
Calvino Rabeni: maybe things are never in balance or settled
Calvino Rabeni: seems ok...
arabella Ella: exactly they are rarely in balance so we make choices depending on which way the scales tip
Zon Quar: ppl r oftehn uncounscious of their inner conflicts
Calvino Rabeni: It is like surfing or skiing, always off balance
arabella Ella: i like that analogy
Calvino Rabeni: but there is a skill to those activities :)
arabella Ella: yes ... and a paradox ... full total control versus risk and total lack of control
Calvino Rabeni: inner conflicts - yes a pretty murky domain
Calvino Rabeni: nice paradox
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: biking too
Calvino Rabeni: people like it - it is fun, so they do it a lot once they get over the fear of being out of control
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: mountain biking, twisty trails
Calvino Rabeni: or dancing, any kind of movement that is partly given by what one can't pre-program
arabella Ella: but ... back to topic ... anger, grief and fear ... like a triangle ... a tripod ... a balancing act perhaps?
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it is like an engine, more than a stable pyramid
Calvino Rabeni: But, there could be some use in trying to be balanced, to be at ease with all three
arabella Ella: do you mean the steam you mentioned earlier?
Calvino Rabeni: I was not thinking that metaphor, but a dynamic play of 3 different forces
Zon Quar: balancing energies caused by feelings caused by expectations together with perceptions
Calvino Rabeni: Hindus have something like that - three Gunas
arabella Ella: mmmmm
arabella Ella: and Zon ... would you not also include upbringing ... the nurture part of our selves?
Calvino Rabeni: zon, there is an idea of things being caused in a sequence, in what you said
Zon Quar: yes..like inbearth and outbreath
Calvino Rabeni: I can see a western idea in that, maybe an eastern one also
Zon Quar: u breath in..feeling
Zon Quar: i breath out--emotion
Calvino Rabeni: that distinction is about receptive vs active?
Zon Quar: yes
Calvino Rabeni: ij
Calvino Rabeni: OK*
--BELL--
Zon Quar: like yin and yang..lol
Calvino Rabeni: sensing vs moving - classic physiology separates them into afferent and efferent
Calvino Rabeni: but in the experience they are mixed
Calvino Rabeni: when one extends a hand, it is both moving and feeling its way
Calvino Rabeni: as is any body activity I suppose
Zon Quar: like yin and yang
arabella Ella: yes
Zon Quar: mixed
Calvino Rabeni: like yin and yang mixed pretty thoroughly
arabella Ella: also applies to other stuff ... like Kant's sensibility and understanding
Calvino Rabeni: the "given" and the "taken"
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella: we tend to bifurcate so many things which are naturally so intermingled
Calvino Rabeni: indeed, excluding the middle
Calvino Rabeni: which is where the action is :)
arabella Ella: yes exactly
Zon Quar: or u could say feelings r steam that flows in ur container, and when there is enough steam, the peassure makes them emotions
Zon Quar: and urge to act emerges
Calvino Rabeni: some body oriented psychologists called it "resistance to experience"
Calvino Rabeni: I think I know what you mean
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes nursing the energy by restraining it seems worthwhile
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur interest in psychologie is also just a part of general curiousity cal ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur a computer tech guy so to speak :P ?
Zon Quar: getting late, goodnight all...
Yakuzza Lethecus: night zon
arabella Ella: Calvino definitely seems to be well read
arabella Ella: nite Zon
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, Zon
Calvino Rabeni: I try to investigate things through practice
Yakuzza Lethecus: my main issue is that i am also very interested in these topics but suffer from the issue that i don´t know whats true and how we gain knowledge
Yakuzza Lethecus: so you end up reading about popper,kuhn,feyerabend... :P
Calvino Rabeni: So many books, so little time :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: while i still have my problems with psychoanalysis even knowing that freud wanted to be a resaechscientist in his early years
Calvino Rabeni: It is worth having a strategy for effiicient learning
Yakuzza Lethecus: impossible for him because vienna was damn catholic :)
Calvino Rabeni: what do you make of freud
Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing i don´t care unless is flashes
Yakuzza Lethecus: right now i really don´t know where to put him
Calvino Rabeni: freud vs jung vs reich ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: you read them all ?
arabella Ella: what do you make of them Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: I am wondering if they are 3 different legs of the tripod we were talking about earlier
Calvino Rabeni: just a speculation
arabella Ella: it is likely they could be interpreted in that way i guess
Calvino Rabeni: jung didn't mind going into the mystic and transpersonal, mythology
arabella Ella: Freud would be feat
Calvino Rabeni: Freud feared that I think
arabella Ella: Jung would be grief with the archetypes
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
arabella Ella: I dont know reich?
Calvino Rabeni: Anger on that pyramid
arabella Ella: ah
Calvino Rabeni: He was about energy and expression
Yakuzza Lethecus: pyramid ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: maslow ?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know his personal character. He had an integrative theory
arabella Ella: ah perhaps we should bring maslow or possibly adler into the equation
--BELL--
arabella Ella: i would love to continue to chat but it is late here nearly midnight ... so gnite Yaku and Calvino!
Yakuzza Lethecus: night ara
arabella Ella: and thanks for the interesting chat
Calvino Rabeni: As always ara, a pleasure to chat with you
Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Foxtree!
Foxtree Gorbunov: Hi Calvino
Foxtree Gorbunov: hay Yakuzza
Foxtree Gorbunov: Deeper meaning of life....New Year eve....Passing of time
Calvino Rabeni: I feel some of that in these winter holiday times
Foxtree Gorbunov: Sorry I hit the send button to soon.....
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Foxtree Gorbunov: I thought I broke the 90 seconds of silence when I came in....I am happy to see I did not. But, I see ever one is into deep thinking
Calvino Rabeni: Fox, how are things going?
Foxtree Gorbunov: Okay, Cal, (If I may call you Cal)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure
Yakuzza Lethecus: foxtree
Foxtree Gorbunov: Coming off a hard week of work
Yakuzza Lethecus: ehy
Foxtree Gorbunov: My mind goes to strange places with I get over worked
Calvino Rabeni: Mine too
Foxtree Gorbunov: looking for the meaning of life and all
Calvino Rabeni: sometimes it is colored by some pain from overwork
Foxtree Gorbunov: Why are we working our selfs to death over a fue gifes
Foxtree Gorbunov: coloerd pain...? there a song in that
Foxtree Gorbunov: Blue is sad, Red Anger,
Calvino Rabeni: The discussion earlier was about emotions
Foxtree Gorbunov: I feel deeply about emotions
Foxtree Gorbunov: I could not pass take one up.
Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry
Foxtree Gorbunov: telling bad jokes take the shappen of the colored pain out... To keep useing the medafor (sp)
Calvino Rabeni: How to come back into wholeness
Foxtree Gorbunov: I truth...I never understood the "wholeness" philosophy
Calvino Rabeni: Ok, if you are too much something, then what else is there?
Foxtree Gorbunov: Well, it like to much food or water. You can have too much at one time....But some times you have too little
Calvino Rabeni: Too much Work :)
Foxtree Gorbunov: Some time to anger, other times too little anger
Foxtree Gorbunov: Is not life a flow, doing with what your got
Foxtree Gorbunov: Also if you got to much of an emotion, How do you let it go
Calvino Rabeni: maybe by looking for a different one to have
Calvino Rabeni: OR by making agreements
Calvino Rabeni: with self?
Foxtree Gorbunov: And emotion that are not emotions. Over work=over stress, or to little sleep?
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Calvino Rabeni: sleep matters yes
Foxtree Gorbunov: Also I miss my dead frind, to the point of my heart braking over and over. This time of year only seem to make that feel much more painfull. How do I "dump" that.
Foxtree Gorbunov: I just wish there was a steep by steep guide to help with the out of the blue feelings.
Calvino Rabeni: honor your friends memory, maybe?
Calvino Rabeni: that is an important question
Foxtree Gorbunov: I give to MADD.
Foxtree Gorbunov: I gave up drinking my self
Calvino Rabeni: I think that would help, both those things
Foxtree Gorbunov: The thing is that the hurt is still deep as it was years ago.
Foxtree Gorbunov: Sorry about the venting
Calvino Rabeni: I have things like that - I don't expect them to go away. But I do hope to have life beyond it
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Foxtree Gorbunov: okay....
Calvino Rabeni: Holiday times are full of feeling for many people
Foxtree Gorbunov: Got it
Calvino Rabeni: I used to dread them a bit
Foxtree Gorbunov: .........
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for coming, Fox
Calvino Rabeni: bye
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Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashland,_Oregon
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Calvino Rabeni: http://www.bernsteintapes.com/hegellist.html