2009.12.26 13:00 - Unpacking Anger

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

The participants of this discussion include Liza, Zen, Calvino, SophiaP, Yakuzza, Eos, Tarmel, Stevenaia, Zon, Arabella, with Foxtree arriving after. Zen brought up the topic of Anger, and the discussion progressed from there. Anger was discussed as: affirming the ego... as a form of attachment... as a form of an alert system -- communicating a need for energy for action to create change... Anger, Grief and Fear as a tripod of emotion... and the rawness of it all.  And St. Stephen with his rose made an appearance on his day :).

 

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza :)
Liza Deischer: Hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: you had a good christmas day?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :) always too short after the preparations though, how about you?
Liza Deischer: yes, I have
Liza Deischer: the preparations take longer then the day itself
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, parties and such leading up to it...
SophiaSharon Larnia: its almost like you expect it to last a week
Liza Deischer: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen
Liza Deischer: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia and Liza
SophiaSharon Larnia: how was your christmas day, Zen?
Zen Arado: ok I go to my niece's house
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Zen Arado: and yours?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i found myself doing several dropping exercises in a room full of people :) Good, Zen
Zen Arado: dropping what?
Liza Deischer: thats the real work :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, challenging for me
SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping in the PaB sense
Zen Arado: I dropped a wine galss
Liza Deischer: :-)
Zen Arado: bought some plastic ones today
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah yes, i dropped a pair of scissors on my foot
SophiaSharon Larnia: (closed) haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: good idea!
Liza Deischer: autch
Zen Arado: Hi Calvino :)
Liza Deischer: hi Cal
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Zen and everyone!
Zen Arado: that could be dangerous Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes! it was quite hectic at the time
Zen Arado: dropping anger Sophia?
Liza Deischer: some things you shouldn't drop
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Liza Deischer: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
Liza Deischer: hi Yakuzza
Zen Arado: old family resentments can boil up at Christmas
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: just drop what I am, what I have, to see what is left
Calvino Rabeni: konnichiwa, yaku-san
SophiaSharon Larnia: and I just saw other beings in the room, all explorers
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sophia
Liza Deischer: hi Sophia
sophia Placebo: hi sharon , all
Zen Arado: Hi Sophia P
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey SP
Zen Arado: other beings?
Zen Arado: ah I see what you mean
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, hard to explain, other thinking beings like myself, what are we all underneath that
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: "One reason anger is so painful is that it constructs such a powerful sense of self and other. In this way, anger strongly resembles fear." Shaoron Sakzber
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah well, still experimenting with it
Zen Arado: anger separates
Zen Arado: so love rejoins?
SophiaSharon Larnia: there is little that makes you feel your ego as much as anger does, the way i see it
Liza Deischer: passion?
Zen Arado: yes you become ego protective don't you?

--BELL--

Zen Arado: especially if other person accuses you of being slefish, lazy etc.
SophiaSharon Larnia: would that apply to any strong emotion then?
Zen Arado: but you an have good emotions too?
Liza Deischer: there is anger, and there is attachment, both very powerful
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
Calvino Rabeni: You can ask, what is it that anger wants you to DO?
Liza Deischer: hi Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos
Zen Arado: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: HI Avs!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
sophia Placebo: hi eos
Yakuzza Lethecus: just avs ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: not beings ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me, anger wants to erase separation
SophiaSharon Larnia: if you feel something strongly, isnt that being attached to it in some way
Eos Amaterasu: are we not beings? we are Being!
Calvino Rabeni: It comes because the separation has already happened
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Zen Arado: but anger can reinforce separation I think
Liza Deischer: hi Steven
Zen Arado: Hi Stevenia
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi steven
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zon
Zen Arado: you become defensive
Liza Deischer: hi Zon
Eos Amaterasu: hi steve, zon
Zen Arado: Hi Zon
Zon Quar: heya
Zen Arado: or attacking
Calvino Rabeni: You can ask about any emotion - when you are in it - what does it want you to DO, and for what purpose
sophia Placebo: cant anger be just an alert ?
Eos Amaterasu: it is
Eos Amaterasu: then I add more
Zen Arado: ever notice how you don't want to reveal too much to someone after you have had a row with them?
Calvino Rabeni: Emotions are DOING things, not "feelings"
Eos Amaterasu: ways of being?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont understand that Calvino, can you say more?
Liza Deischer: I agree Cal
Eos Amaterasu: how you handle reality
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, emotions are compelling because they are about doing things in the world, about acting
Eos Amaterasu: freeze it out with anger, suck it in with passion
Calvino Rabeni: And about communication , about social situations, about things needing to change
Calvino Rabeni: Emotions are more communications for others, than feelings for oneself
Liza Deischer: hi Tarmel
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram, and Tarmel :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bert, tamel :)
Liza Deischer: hi Bertram
Zen Arado: Hi Bert
Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Tarmel!, Hi Bert,
Tarmel Udimo: hello everyone! and merry christmas:)
Calvino Rabeni: western psychology wanted to say emotions were private internal experiences
Calvino Rabeni: but they are not, they are social, that is why we feel disturbed by them
Calvino Rabeni: because they ask one to be social
Calvino Rabeni: which seems dangerous
Liza Deischer: most people don't make difference between emotions and feelings
Zon Quar: nods, emotion causes motion
Calvino Rabeni: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm afraid I still don't understand... I have a friend who is very ill, and I've been very angry about that, although there in no one to be angry at, and no way to fix things.
sophia Placebo: bbl
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: so is that personal emotion in the same sense as you mean?
Eos Amaterasu: I think just letting that be in its rawness is quite okay
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, your friend is ill, and anger tells you, that you are the kind of person who would make your friend well, if only you could
Eos Amaterasu: without pushing or pulling it, of course :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hypothesis: the first flash of anything is okay
Liza Deischer: and if you could and you would know what makes you angry, you want to show your anger
Calvino Rabeni: And also the anger tells others you would make your friend well if you could
Calvino Rabeni: If you didn't have it, others might think you would not do that, would not care
Liza Deischer: I disagree Eos
Zon Quar: coud u say feelings are built in emotions that then act as energy for action ?
Calvino Rabeni: they are energy for action, you can use them that way
Calvino Rabeni: they want different things, depending on their quality
Eos Amaterasu: Liza, how about in next 90 sec period watching the first flash of anger (if it pops up) or any other emotion
Liza Deischer: ok

--BELL--

Zon Quar: or could u say a feeling arises when u receive information in from ur environment throught ur senses, and then u process that information and feelings, which causes in u an emotion to act out in a certain way ?
Liza Deischer: there are only a few emotions, but a lot of different feelings
Eos Amaterasu: what did you experience?
Liza Deischer: inpatience
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Liza Deischer: feels like being angry a little :-)
Eos Amaterasu: yes.... I get that a lot while driving :-)
Tarmel Udimo: sorry folks, I just dropped in to say merrry christmas, so I will be off..
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Tarmel, nice to see you!
Liza Deischer: bye tarmel
SophiaSharon Larnia: Merry Christmas Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: BFN
Liza Deischer: i think what we feel first is born out of the habit to feel like that after a certain situation
Eos Amaterasu: yes, quite often
Eos Amaterasu: "love potion #9"
Calvino Rabeni: zon, I was reading your last question
Liza Deischer: that habit can be based on a good 'thing', but can also
Liza Deischer: strengthen your ego
Eos Amaterasu: give it apparent appearance
Zen Arado: Hi Ara
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ara
Zon Quar: ara:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara :)
arabella Ella: good to c u all on st stephens day
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello :)
Liza Deischer: on what ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: st stephen with a rose, in and out of the garden he goes
Zen Arado: anger at the way things go is not healthy - you either do something about it or forget the anger I think
arabella Ella: people call it boxing day but i find that too conflictual
Eos Amaterasu: wherever he goes the people all complain
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: boxing dag!
arabella Ella: in a christmas carol people sing 'on the feast of stephen' fafalala
Zen Arado: Good King Wencelas looked out...
Calvino Rabeni: Eos, who can give the answer to the answer man?
Liza Deischer: ok, wel never heard of the guy
arabella Ella: :)
Liza Deischer: :-)
arabella Ella: u have now
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Liza Deischer: yes :-)
arabella Ella: name day for all people called stephen is today
Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia!
Liza Deischer: ah, thats what it is about
arabella Ella: yes
Zen Arado: Hi Bolo
Liza Deischer: I unerstand your anger Sophia, at least for a part, but I think wat is really interesting is what it is that makes you angry
Bolonath Crystal: namaste :)
Liza Deischer: hi Bolo
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bolonath
arabella Ella: apologies for interrupting Soph
SophiaSharon Larnia: nooo no worries
arabella Ella: and Stevenaia is with us again ... happy name day!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Did it matter? does it now? Stephen would answer if he only knew how
SophiaSharon Larnia: (song , :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eden
Zen Arado: Hi EDen
Liza Deischer: ah :-)
Liza Deischer: hi Eden
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eden Haiku: HI !
Eos Amaterasu: Sunlight splatters dawn (=Eos) with answer
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, this anger has been ongoing and tiring, i know its unhealthy, but it seems to arise on its own, not true, of course, but trying to deal with it
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eos Amaterasu: rail, rail against the dying of the light
Liza Deischer: is this anger related to fear?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: "darkness shrugs and bids the day goodbye"
Calvino Rabeni: yes related to fear
Zon Quar: anger should not be repressed
Eos Amaterasu: nor acted out
Zen Arado: 'be the anger' I was told
Zon Quar: watch it
Zen Arado: observe it?
Eos Amaterasu: let it flash - you can't hold on to it
Bolonath Crystal: to look at where the anger comes from would be a good lakshya for meditation
Eos Amaterasu: you make up reasons to recreate it
Zen Arado: don't think 'venting ' is good
Calvino Rabeni: freud thought emotions were substances, like steam in a boiler - a 19th century metaphor
Liza Deischer: being the anger is a way to peal off the layers
Zen Arado: it is ust recreating it
arabella Ella: are the forces that give rise to the anger beyond control?
Liza Deischer: because the anger can't stay, it needs to subside to something different
Eos Amaterasu: discontinuity brings humor, which we get pissed off at, try to deny, in the middle of anger :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: grief
Eos Amaterasu: that's more profound

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: If one imagines an emotion as a being with a message for you, rather than as a substance, what does it mean / want?
Calvino Rabeni: What does grief "want"?
Zen Arado: it wants to flow naturally
Zen Arado: until it subsides
arabella Ella: otherwise?
Calvino Rabeni: What does it want you to know or do?
Zen Arado: listens
Calvino Rabeni: when you are having it, you have the insight from it, not looking from the outside
Calvino Rabeni: I have a personal answer but I wanted to ask others first
arabella Ella: does it not make one feel very vulnerable?
Zon Quar: anger meant thing r not goint teh way i expected
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Liza Deischer: to me grief is not wanting to let go
Zen Arado: my anger is usually because my ego has ben threatened, diminished
arabella Ella: as though a force that wishes to destroy part of us is there ... exists
Calvino Rabeni: what if you let go, what happens?
Liza Deischer: then I fear to be shattered all over the place
Calvino Rabeni: I was proposing, see emotion as a messenger, not a force, then it will reveal something different
Liza Deischer: thinking nothing is left
Liza Deischer: that ego really doesn't exhist
Calvino Rabeni: nothing but a memory>
Liza Deischer: while I am still hoping that I am wrong :-)
Calvino Rabeni: the past still seems to exist as a memory, does grief change it?
Zen Arado: I know but the illusion does :)
Eos Amaterasu: grief can be like a force of nature
Eos Amaterasu: and very close to the nature of nature
Zen Arado: grief is necessary - anger is not
Liza Deischer: messenger.....pondering
Zen Arado: ?
Calvino Rabeni: what does nature want you to know, by bringing grief to you?
Eos Amaterasu: nature has no agenda
arabella Ella: exposes weaknesses ... vulnerability
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats the worst for me to ponder
Eos Amaterasu: "the mother does not take sides - she cares only for the balance of nature" - from "Avatar"
Zon Quar: nature says,, u did it wrong somehow
Calvino Rabeni: seems painful
Calvino Rabeni: I believe all the emotions have their positive message
Bolonath Crystal: i also think so, cal
Liza Deischer: that you can let go
Calvino Rabeni: if one could drop the fear of weakness and vulnerability, what would grief offer then
arabella Ella: perhaps you could share your message with us Calvino as you said you would please?
Bolonath Crystal: negativ emotions show us where we are still attached to ego
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I felt I could let go the fear of loss that is mixed with the grief
Calvino Rabeni: The grief says - you have to let go of something that you are losing
arabella Ella: ah
Calvino Rabeni: It says, what do you make of that?
Calvino Rabeni: I saw from that, it is asking me to treasure things
Calvino Rabeni: and to act in the future like they are important
Calvino Rabeni: by recognizing their meaning in the past
Calvino Rabeni: so it turned into gratitude for what I have
Calvino Rabeni: And I felt that a positive message
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: ty
arabella Ella: but not easy
Calvino Rabeni: Grief can be releasing, but also energizing of a fresh feeling for the future
Liza Deischer: thank you cal, that is a very nice way to look at it
Calvino Rabeni: no not easy
Zen Arado: seeing the preciousness of everything arouns us...
Liza Deischer: no but instead letting grief get the better of you, you are allowing yoursef to use it, act on it
Zen Arado: and how impermanent it is...
Liza Deischer: that's great
Calvino Rabeni: using it, yes, but in a way that IT wants
Calvino Rabeni: It feels authentic, I meant
Liza Deischer: yes, I understand
Liza Deischer: (I need to let the Fool come out)
Calvino Rabeni: THere are different types of people - not a standard model of human
Liza Deischer: (...a bit more)
Calvino Rabeni: with emotions I meant, different proportions

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: does that help Sophia what Cal is offering?
Calvino Rabeni: something about being a self - with different mixes of ongoing emotions
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, Ill have to think about it more :)
Bolonath Crystal bows to everyone. om shanti, have a nice day :)
Calvino Rabeni: the proportions different in different people, some more angry some more fearful, some more sad
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bolonath
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
arabella Ella: bye Bolo
Liza Deischer: bye Bolo
Zen Arado: bye Bolo
Eos Amaterasu: Bye all, festive season to all
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Liza Deischer: bye Eos
arabella Ella: bye Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go to work now, but will read the rest of the log when I post it, bye for now :)
Zen Arado: Bye Eos
arabella Ella: bye SophS
Liza Deischer: bye Sophia
Zen Arado: Bye Sharon
Eden Haiku: Bye!
Liza Deischer: Bye Eden
arabella Ella: bye Eden
Zen Arado: Bye Eden
Liza Deischer: Im going too
Liza Deischer: bye for now
Zen Arado: Bye Liza
arabella Ella: nite Liza
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Liza
arabella Ella: could you say more Calvino please?
Calvino Rabeni: yes, i think, it was useful for me to accept that others have different characteristic mixes of emotions
Zen Arado: yes it is interesting
Calvino Rabeni: thus I had less reason to think they were somehow wrong
Calvino Rabeni: or that I was, relative to them
Calvino Rabeni: more acceptance of differences
Calvino Rabeni: second, it is a kind of analytical model of character
arabella Ella listens
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, see you soon
arabella Ella: bye Steve
Calvino Rabeni: bye stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: happy holidays
Zen Arado: I have to go too
arabella Ella: nite Zen
Zen Arado: bye
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
arabella Ella: so Calvino if I may ...
Calvino Rabeni: please
arabella Ella: some people are more sensitive to grief and perhaps anger than others
arabella Ella: those who are genuinely more laid back appear to suffer less
arabella Ella: perhaps because they ... let their grief and anger flow ... or perhaps they drop them ...
arabella Ella: what do you think?
Calvino Rabeni: people vary in their expressivity
arabella Ella: but that is only outward isnt it ... expressivity i mean?
Calvino Rabeni: in the simple model I have in mind, the big three are fear, anger, grief
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and a given person may be motivated primarily by one of those
arabella Ella nods
Calvino Rabeni: and represss one of those to the point of being rather unaware
Calvino Rabeni: an angry person may repress fear
Calvino Rabeni: a fearful person may repress anger
Zon Quar: difference between grief and fear ?
Calvino Rabeni: do they feel different?
Calvino Rabeni: grief seems to be about the past
Calvino Rabeni: fear about the future
Calvino Rabeni: grief about something lost
Calvino Rabeni: fear about something you think might happen but don't want
arabella Ella: and do you think the three of them always go together ... in your simple model?
Zon Quar: the point seems to be that u desire something and ur desire gets blocked, so one of those 3 arises
Calvino Rabeni: if I look at my experience there seem to be layers
Calvino Rabeni: an outer one, then others underneath
Calvino Rabeni: under anger may be fear
arabella Ella: is the outer one the image projected to others?
Calvino Rabeni: the anger "wants" the fearful situation to be resolved
Calvino Rabeni: I think it is the one they can see, and the one that the person chooses to communicate
Calvino Rabeni: yes, I agree with your statement
Calvino Rabeni: the story gets more complex the more it is looked at

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: zon's question is interesting
Calvino Rabeni: u desire something and ur desire gets blocked, so one of those 3 arises
Calvino Rabeni: when the desire gets blocked, the "feeling" intensifies
Calvino Rabeni: when it flows, the desire is there, but finding its fulfillment in a flowing way
Calvino Rabeni: so there are two levels - the flowing aspect and the frustrated aspect, which seems rigid and problematical
arabella Ella: yes
Zon Quar: someone tries to come between the object of my desire.. i feel anger or fear of losing
arabella Ella: and
Zon Quar: or both
arabella Ella: a desire could be blocked by oneself, by others, or by circumstances
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Calvino Rabeni: often by oneself
arabella Ella: not always
Calvino Rabeni: I think there are always ways to work with circumstances
Calvino Rabeni: or usually?
Calvino Rabeni: can a desire be blocked by others?
arabella Ella: at times others cause us unexpected grief and if you reflect you realise that they may be blocking or sabotaging a desire acknowledged or not
Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
Calvino Rabeni: and oneself may do that to oneself
arabella Ella: also ... yes
Zon Quar: by having conflicting desires
Calvino Rabeni: it is hard, when the "social climate" is not open to feeling freely
arabella Ella: well are we not always balancing things out in life ... like holding measuring scales to some extent?
Calvino Rabeni: or deeply
Calvino Rabeni: maybe things are never in balance or settled
Calvino Rabeni: seems ok...
arabella Ella: exactly they are rarely in balance so we make choices depending on which way the scales tip
Zon Quar: ppl r often unconscious of their inner conflicts
Calvino Rabeni: It is like surfing or skiing, always off balance
arabella Ella: i like that analogy
Calvino Rabeni: but there is a skill to those activities :)
arabella Ella: yes ... and a paradox ... full total control versus risk and total lack of control
Calvino Rabeni: inner conflicts - yes a pretty murky domain
Calvino Rabeni: nice paradox
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: biking too
Calvino Rabeni: people like it - it is fun, so they do it a lot once they get over the fear of being out of control
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: mountain biking, twisty trails
Calvino Rabeni: or dancing, any kind of movement that is partly given by what one can't pre-program
arabella Ella: but ... back to topic ... anger, grief and fear ... like a triangle ... a tripod ... a balancing act perhaps?
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it is like an engine, more than a stable pyramid
Calvino Rabeni: But, there could be some use in trying to be balanced, to be at ease with all three
arabella Ella: do you mean the steam you mentioned earlier?
Calvino Rabeni: I was not thinking that metaphor, but a dynamic play of 3 different forces
Zon Quar: balancing energies caused by feelings caused by expectations together with perceptions
Calvino Rabeni: Hindus have something like that - three Gunas
arabella Ella: mmmmm
arabella Ella: and Zon ... would you not also include upbringing ... the nurture part of our selves?
Calvino Rabeni: zon, there is an idea of things being caused in a sequence, in what you said
Zon Quar: yes..like inbearth and outbreath
Calvino Rabeni: I can see a western idea in that, maybe an eastern one also
Zon Quar: u breath in..feeling
Zon Quar: i breath out--emotion
Calvino Rabeni: that distinction is about receptive vs active?
Zon Quar: yes
Calvino Rabeni: OK

--BELL--

Zon Quar: like yin and yang..lol
Calvino Rabeni: sensing vs moving - classic physiology separates them into afferent and efferent
Calvino Rabeni: but in the experience they are mixed
Calvino Rabeni: when one extends a hand, it is both moving and feeling its way
Calvino Rabeni: as is any body activity I suppose
Zon Quar: like yin and yang
arabella Ella: yes
Zon Quar: mixed
Calvino Rabeni: like yin and yang mixed pretty thoroughly
arabella Ella: also applies to other stuff ... like Kant's sensibility and understanding
Calvino Rabeni: the "given" and the "taken"
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella: we tend to bifurcate so many things which are naturally so intermingled
Calvino Rabeni: indeed, excluding the middle
Calvino Rabeni: which is where the action is :)
arabella Ella: yes exactly
Zon Quar: or u could say feelings r steam that flows in ur container, and when there is enough steam, the pressure makes them emotions
Zon Quar: and urge to act emerges
Calvino Rabeni: some body oriented psychologists called it "resistance to experience"
Calvino Rabeni: I think I know what you mean
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes nursing the energy by restraining it seems worthwhile
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur interest in psychology is also just a part of general curiousity cal ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur a computer tech guy so to speak :P ?
Zon Quar: getting late, goodnight all...
Yakuzza Lethecus: night zon
arabella Ella: Calvino definitely seems to be well read
arabella Ella: nite Zon
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, Zon
Calvino Rabeni: I try to investigate things through practice
Yakuzza Lethecus: my main issue is that i am also very interested in these topics but suffer from the issue that i don´t know whats true and how we gain knowledge
Yakuzza Lethecus: so you end up reading about popper, kuhn, feyerabend... :P
Calvino Rabeni: So many books, so little time :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: while i still have my problems with psychoanalysis even knowing that freud wanted to be a research scientist in his early years
Calvino Rabeni: It is worth having a strategy for efficient learning
Yakuzza Lethecus: impossible for him because vienna was damn catholic :)
Calvino Rabeni: what do you make of freud
Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing i don´t care unless is flashes
Yakuzza Lethecus: right now i really don´t know where to put him
Calvino Rabeni: freud vs jung vs reich ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: you read them all ?
arabella Ella: what do you make of them Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: I am wondering if they are 3 different legs of the tripod we were talking about earlier
Calvino Rabeni: just a speculation
arabella Ella: it is likely they could be interpreted in that way i guess
Calvino Rabeni: jung didn't mind going into the mystic and transpersonal, mythology
arabella Ella: Freud would be feat
Calvino Rabeni: Freud feared that I think
arabella Ella: Jung would be grief with the archetypes
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
arabella Ella: I dont know reich?
Calvino Rabeni: Anger on that pyramid
arabella Ella: ah
Calvino Rabeni: He was about energy and expression
Yakuzza Lethecus: pyramid ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: maslow ?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know his personal character. He had an integrative theory
arabella Ella: ah perhaps we should bring maslow or possibly adler into the equation

--BELL--

arabella Ella: i would love to continue to chat but it is late here nearly midnight ... so gnite Yaku and Calvino!
Yakuzza Lethecus: night ara
arabella Ella: and thanks for the interesting chat
Calvino Rabeni: As always ara, a pleasure to chat with you
Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Foxtree!
Foxtree Gorbunov: Hi Calvino
Foxtree Gorbunov: hay Yakuzza
Foxtree Gorbunov: Deeper meaning of life....New Year eve....Passing of time
Calvino Rabeni: I feel some of that in these winter holiday times
Foxtree Gorbunov: Sorry I hit the send button to soon.....

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Foxtree Gorbunov: I thought I broke the 90 seconds of silence when I came in....I am happy to see I did not. But, I see ever one is into deep thinking
Calvino Rabeni: Fox, how are things going?
Foxtree Gorbunov: Okay, Cal, (If I may call you Cal)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure
Yakuzza Lethecus: foxtree
Foxtree Gorbunov: Coming off a hard week of work
Yakuzza Lethecus: ehy
Foxtree Gorbunov: My mind goes to strange places with I get over worked
Calvino Rabeni: Mine too
Foxtree Gorbunov: looking for the meaning of life and all
Calvino Rabeni: sometimes it is colored by some pain from overwork
Foxtree Gorbunov: Why are we working our selves to death over a few gifts
Foxtree Gorbunov: colored pain...? there a song in that
Foxtree Gorbunov: Blue is sad, Red, Anger,
Calvino Rabeni: The discussion earlier was about emotions
Foxtree Gorbunov: I feel deeply about emotions
Foxtree Gorbunov: I could not pass take one up.
Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry
Foxtree Gorbunov: telling bad jokes take the shappen of the colored pain out... To keep useing the medafor (sp)
Calvino Rabeni: How to come back into wholeness
Foxtree Gorbunov: truth...I never understood the "wholeness" philosophy
Calvino Rabeni: Ok, if you are too much something, then what else is there?
Foxtree Gorbunov: Well, it like too much food or water. You can have too much at one time....But sometimes you have too little
Calvino Rabeni: Too much Work :)
Foxtree Gorbunov: Some times too much anger, other times too little anger
Foxtree Gorbunov: Is not life a flow, doing with what you got
Foxtree Gorbunov: Also if you got too much of an emotion, How do you let it go
Calvino Rabeni: maybe by looking for a different one to have
Calvino Rabeni: OR by making agreements
Calvino Rabeni: with self?
Foxtree Gorbunov: And emotion that are not emotions. Over work=over stress, or to little sleep?

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Calvino Rabeni: sleep matters yes
Foxtree Gorbunov: Also I miss my dead friend, to the point of my heart breaking over and over. This time of year only seem to make that feel much more painfull. How do I "dump" that.
Foxtree Gorbunov: I just wish there was a step by step guide to help with the out of the blue feelings.
Calvino Rabeni: honor your friends memory, maybe?
Calvino Rabeni: that is an important question
Foxtree Gorbunov: I give to MADD.
Foxtree Gorbunov: I gave up drinking my self
Calvino Rabeni: I think that would help, both those things
Foxtree Gorbunov: The thing is that the hurt is still deep as it was years ago.
Foxtree Gorbunov: Sorry about the venting
Calvino Rabeni: I have things like that - I don't expect them to go away. But I do hope to have life beyond it
Calvino Rabeni: OK
Foxtree Gorbunov: okay....
Calvino Rabeni: Holiday times are full of feeling for many people
Foxtree Gorbunov: Got it
Calvino Rabeni: I used to dread them a bit
Foxtree Gorbunov: .........
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for coming, Fox
Calvino Rabeni: bye

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Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashland,_Oregon

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Calvino Rabeni: http://www.bernsteintapes.com/hegellist.html