2009.12.05 19:00 - Like Being on Top of a Mountain

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Eden!
Pema Pera: you look very distinguished tonight!
Eden Haiku: Hi Pema! What time is it in Kyoto now?
Eden Haiku: blushing...
Pema Pera: Hi Widget!
Widget Whiteberry: good... morning?
Eden Haiku: Hi Widget!
Widget Whiteberry: Hi Eden
Pema Pera: just noon here in Japan, Widget, for me
Widget Whiteberry: sl -7
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: may I ask, is there a particular symbolism connected with your great outfit, Widget?
Widget Whiteberry: you may
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: I found some interesting creations from a group called alpha.tribe
Widget Whiteberry: this is a mix of one of their skins and their 'hermit'
Widget Whiteberry: I decided to make myself look the way I'm feeling
Eden Haiku: Looks perfect for this snowfall...
Widget Whiteberry: well, too try
Widget Whiteberry: it does work with the snow
Widget Whiteberry: I added the boots
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Eden Haiku: And it looks good!
Pema Pera: yes, it's comfy and yet intriguingly mysterious :)
Widget Whiteberry: I thought about running around in just the skin
Widget Whiteberry: but it's too provacotive
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: and I feel kind of hermity
Eden Haiku: A nude hermit maybe?
Pema Pera: hahaha
Widget Whiteberry: who would know?
Widget Whiteberry: their skins act as clothes
Pema Pera: have you been feeling hermity for a long time?
Eden Haiku: What do you mean?
Widget Whiteberry: lately, often
Pema Pera: I mean, days, weeks, months, or . . ?
Eden Haiku: Thanks Pema. I'm still learning how to do the logs...
Pema Pera: best to ask someone, to go through it in real time, step by step
Pema Pera: tonight is my weekly slot
Eden Haiku: Wol has been helping me.
Pema Pera: (as for clothes, Eden is a hermit-about-town tonite I guess :)
Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!
Eden Haiku: Exactly...some club opening later ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello, good to see you Pema (and others)
Eden Haiku: Hi!

I learned something new about viewers.

Eden Haiku: Is it with the Emerald viewer that avatars can have tags over their heads like that?
Pema Pera: I'm not sure about what an "emerald viewer" is -- is that different from the default viewer?
Widget Whiteberry: yes, not made by LL
Pema Pera: ah, so you have to buy that separately, from another company?
Eden Haiku: I read a mail by Storm about it.
Widget Whiteberry: free download
Pema Pera: open source?
Eden Haiku: He sent the link but it is a lot of info.
Widget Whiteberry: I think so, Pema
Pema Pera: interesting idea!
Calvino Rabeni: The tag is from a hovertext script I wrote - it works in standard viewer - I did not test it in others
Eden Haiku: It seems to do lots of things, ways to teleport and so on..
Calvino Rabeni: It is just a way to "show up" a nother bit of info - an experiment
Eden Haiku: Ah, thank you Calvino.
Pema Pera: Does anyone have a suggestion as to what we can do during the next 90 seconds, a short exploration of some kind?
Widget Whiteberry: I was thinking of breathing
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: always a good idea :)
Eden Haiku: Yes.
Pema Pera: (drinking not bad either :-)
Eden Haiku: Throwing her chewing gum...
Eos Amaterasu: Hi all!
Pema Pera: Hi Eos!
Eden Haiku: Good evening Eos!
Pema Pera: Eos: [19:13] Pema Pera: Does anyone have a suggestion as to what we can do during the next 90 seconds, a short exploration of some kind? [19:13] Widget Whiteberry: I was thinking of breathing
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Widget, Eos, Eden, Calvino :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Eden Haiku: Eliza is wearing the Invisibility Shield.
Pema Pera: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Am I? Fun. :)
Pema Pera: zoom in and out and she will show up, Eden

Eden managed to wake us all up :)

Eden Haiku: ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß
Widget Whiteberry hurries off for water
Calvino Rabeni: (eden sleeps on keyboard?)
Eden Haiku: Hi! How can I avoid these cam moves showing in the chat window?
Pema Pera: ß is German for ss . . . perhaps a snake visited her?
Eos Amaterasu: catching some betas
Calvino Rabeni: In USA sleeping is ZZZZZZZZZZZ
Eden Haiku: No, when I do zoom in and out (it worked, I see Eliza now!) ther write lettersin the window...
Pema Pera: must be Eden's French accent
Eden Haiku: ha ha ha!!
Pema Pera: artistically displayed in German
Eos Amaterasu: we log all zooming
Eden Haiku: It does not do that when you use your camera?
Pema Pera: nope
Eden Haiku: What's wrong with me ;-(((
Pema Pera: perhaps first click outside the "local chat box" before you give camera commands?
Eden Haiku: Brilliant...Thanks!
Eos Amaterasu: click outside the box, Luke!
Eden Haiku: ;-)))
Pema Pera: I enjoyed the breathing suggestion by Widget, during the break -- nice to see my thoughts falling down and resting, like the snow flakes here
Eos Amaterasu: also sense of communing with the world, taking it in, letting go into it
Eden Haiku: I felt my body, its position and also afeeling like after a day in ski, memories I guess..
Eos Amaterasu: like after a day skiing?
Eden Haiku: Yes, skiing.
Eden Haiku: Mayve beacuse this place feels like being on top of a mountain.
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Widget Whiteberry: snow flakes and wisteria
Eden Haiku: Winter and summer mixed.
Eos Amaterasu: Lately I've been getting or including more of a geographic sense of presence of the RLs of the SLs here, all in the 90 secs

I was not the only one who was slightly puzzled :-)

Widget Whiteberry: Eos??
Eden Haiku: Can you tell us?
Pema Pera: "RLs of the SLs"?
Eos Amaterasu: might be part of that "reverence" quality you alluded to the other day, Eden
Eos Amaterasu: the real life people scattered over the globe across thousands of miles but yet together here in SL
Pema Pera: ah!
Eos Amaterasu: in a shared 90 secs
Eden Haiku: yes, I see...
Eos Amaterasu: Kind of amazing!
Widget Whiteberry: oh yes.... I think of it in a temporal way
Pema Pera looking to his feet deep down to where Eos is sitting now at the other side of the world
Widget Whiteberry: when we are
Eos Amaterasu: (I won't tickle )
Widget Whiteberry: Pema is SL -7
Widget Whiteberry: Eos is SL +4 (typically)
Eden Haiku: The silly skater is here!
Pema Pera: SL-7+24
Eos Amaterasu watches Storm skate in
Pema Pera: (it's Sunday here in Japan)
Pema Pera: hi Storm and Arch!
Widget Whiteberry: I am SLT (pacific)
Eden Haiku: I'm SLT +3
--BELL--
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Calvino Rabeni: And I, SLT
Archmage Atlantis: Hi all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch, Storm :)

The talk turned toward the role of time in greetings.

Widget Whiteberry: When is everyone else?
Storm Nordwind whispers "Hello" to everyone
Eliza Madrigal: SLT+3 like Eden :)
Storm Nordwind is on MST
Pema Pera: "when are you?" -- interesting SL greeting!
Widget Whiteberry: my thought too
Widget Whiteberry: we cast a temporal net
Pema Pera: "when on Earth are you?"
Widget Whiteberry: both synchronous and asynchronous
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Widget Whiteberry: our virtual hands almost touching
Archmage Atlantis: We need a new verb or pharse that expresses both time and location on earth
Archmage Atlantis: *phrase
Widget Whiteberry: I wonder how it would feel to be sitting here with hands linked around the pool
Widget Whiteberry: time and place, yes
Eos Amaterasu: so when is this place?
Widget Whiteberry: all-time?
Pema Pera: and where is this time?
Widget Whiteberry: metaverse?

I tried to connect with a PaB like topic.

Pema Pera: in general I think virtual worlds are great tools to help us de-identify with what we are normally clinging to
Archmage Atlantis: Maybe the weather or environmental conditions also, as my Austrian friends remind me it is mid-summer and the days will be getting shorter not longer
Pema Pera: helping to wear our usual identifications more lightly
Pema Pera: Australian?
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure... think I may be more preoccupied with clothes and hair since I started SL ;-)
Eden Haiku: Australian you mean?
Eos Amaterasu: in a kind of paradoxical way, through taking on new, virtual, identifications
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, thanks Pema
Widget Whiteberry grins at Eliza
Eliza Madrigal grins back widely
Pema Pera: yes, but the skin and hair here are more easily switched than in RL, so the identifications are less "sticky"
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true true
Eliza Madrigal: playfullier
Eden Haiku: I stick to the same haircut in Sl as in RL...No, not the same haircut in each world...
Widget Whiteberry: outfitting myself in SL seems a more creative experience, less constrained
Pema Pera: SL may be a help in shifting from seeming-to-be to seeming-to-have -- in RL we seem to be a body, and here we more clearly have one (though still we identify, of course)
Pema Pera: a great meditative experiment
Archmage Atlantis: I must admit I do not love the phrase "meat-bag", but behind this image and this keyboard I remain flesh and blood
Widget Whiteberry: yucky phrase - evokes self loathing
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes interesting angle.. we don't think, as we move through RL "oh, let me move my body over there"
Eos Amaterasu: not yet
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: Soon...
Calvino Rabeni: The control is imperfect, but the better it gets, the easier it is to identify
Eliza Madrigal: well if we think less, in rl, then over there might move the body? hah..
Calvino Rabeni: And I notice a desire to improve it
Eden Haiku: I can't wait for teleportation in RL
Widget Whiteberry: I don't think about moving my body , I think about going somewhere, being somewhere
Storm Nordwind: Oh I can wait. It would be a terrorist weapon very quickly

The conversation turned to various world problems.

Eden Haiku: really?
Widget Whiteberry: true, Storm, sadly true
Widget Whiteberry: but everything is a weapon in the hands of someone wishing to create chaos
Widget Whiteberry: although some weapons are more powerful than others
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, true Storm, but it may evolve anyway
Widget Whiteberry pulls her cloak around her
Eden Haiku: Chilly suddenly...
Archmage Atlantis: And new "evils" are part of dealing with existence and moving forward
Archmage Atlantis: I had a conversation today with a friend, the conclusion of which was
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: To exist is to change, to not change is to not exist
Widget Whiteberry: /request 75
Calvino Rabeni: How about "being is movement" not stillness?
Eden Haiku: The small islands of Tuvalu in the Pacific are doomed to be washed out by the ocean. Yet the people there refuse to move to New Zealand. They even say it will still be the land of their ancestors even if it goes underwater.
Calvino Rabeni: Responding to AA's statement
Calvino Rabeni: About that, Eden?
Eden Haiku: I was thinking about «new evils»: terrorism, climate changes...
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, Eden... complex. It relates a little to something I was thinking today... about superstition.. can be layered/imperceptable, why change seems difficult, etc
Archmage Atlantis: The last 90 seconds brought another poem to me
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
Calvino Rabeni: Tuvalu people - a nostalgic idea to a modern person, or maybe, irrational sounding
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Steve
Archmage Atlantis: Exist

  All times may exist at once

  But this me exist in this moment

  The past is a learning

  The future is a choice

  Only the present exists In this universe

Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
Eden Haiku: Time, yes, What is the nature of time?
Storm Nordwind: We have a Kira workshop dedicated to asking just that question Eden!
Archmage Atlantis: To the physicist or to the poet, Eden?
Eden Haiku: Both ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: the sentence reads like a lyric :)
Archmage Atlantis: What is the story, I believe it was told originally in Sanskrit
Archmage Atlantis: About the blind men and the elephant?
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to pop in to see everyone tonight :) Bye for now
Widget Whiteberry blinks
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Eliza
Storm Nordwind waves
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Eden Haiku: Bye Eliza!
Archmage Atlantis: Bye Eliza
Pema Pera: talking about terrorism and climate change: somebody once said "if only climate change had a mustache" -- it is so much easier to galvanize people to fight against a person as an image than against a global climate effect . . .
Archmage Atlantis: *chuckles*

The topic of multiple greeting lines comes up; some day we'll find a solution!

Widget Whiteberry: I think our chat logs would benefit from some convention that doesn't require everyone to greet and say goodbye to everyone and still allow us to feel recongnized and part of the group.
Widget Whiteberry is feeling a touch cranky
Widget Whiteberry: goes with feeling herimit-y
Eden Haiku: I like the greetings. We might want to be more creative about them maybe...
Pema Pera: we could have a designated greeter :-)
Widget Whiteberry: could the recording device be a greeter on behalf of all of us
Pema Pera: but yes, Widget, the topic comes up regularly
Eden Haiku: Maybe script some animations like bowing and so on...
Pema Pera: no clear solution
Widget Whiteberry: oh, a designated greeter!
Calvino Rabeni: I think with climate change we are up against a myth that Nature is unchanging
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Pema, like Wal-Mart *smile*
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: hello and good bye on behalf of the group
Widget Whiteberry: damn, I'm stuck in trivia
Widget Whiteberry: with the planet melting
Storm Nordwind winces
Calvino Rabeni: People might have an easier time accepting it if they thought of everything including climate as continually changing
Eden Haiku: I think sometimes the greetings force us into another mode which is good. Small talk helps usé
Eden Haiku: *us
Widget Whiteberry: it has it's benefits
Calvino Rabeni: If they hear the slogan "Our changing climate" enough times, it will sink in as an idea
Eden Haiku: Hail to uou Master Hermit Widget!
Pema Pera: :-)
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant
Eden Haiku: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant: the best greeting ever Storm! I'm notecarding it and will copycat you if you allow me ;-)
Widget Whiteberry: Thank you and farewell, all
Calvino Rabeni: (finally checking out Widget's outfit - like your cowl expecially)
Calvino Rabeni: BYe
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: (may I say "bye Widget"?)
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Widg (is that you?) :-)
Eden Haiku: Goodnoite, farewelll,,, (Family Trapp like...!!!
Widget Whiteberry: it is me, yes
Widget Whiteberry: just in a particular mood
Eden Haiku: Bye Eos!
Storm Nordwind: Salutations © 2009, Storm Nordwind Inc., Eden. All royalty payments to the Kira website donations button :)
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, time to depart, blessings and farewell my friends
Eden Haiku: Sure ;-)
Pema Pera: bye Arch!
Eden Haiku: Blessings Archmage!
stevenaia Michinaga: seems I;ve been missing some interesting converations today due to my late arrival (probably every day)
stevenaia Michinaga: is that ice on the fountain, Storm?
Storm Nordwind: It is supposed to be Steve, yes
Eden Haiku: Ho are you doing Steve? We have been talking about time, identification...
Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
Pema Pera: bfn

Since I left at this point, I'll leave the rest of the session uncommented.

Storm Nordwind waves
Eden Haiku: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant Pema!
stevenaia Michinaga: I have having a lovely day, snow 2-3 inches here
Calvino Rabeni: BYe Pema
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Eden Haiku: Nice. Snow is late up here... not yet stays on the ground. Only in SL...
stevenaia Michinaga: Eden... identification...? or how it relates to time?
stevenaia Michinaga: I could read the log :)
Eden Haiku: Well, I,m not sure how they relate either Steve....
Calvino Rabeni: The individual listener blogs - I was wondering where that goes - on the wiki somewhere?
stevenaia Michinaga: there is a place for those, or their links on the wiki, do you ahve a blog, Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: Not at this time. If I did, could I access those logs out of the database?
Calvino Rabeni: In the PAB wiki?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, although the search capabilities of the wiki are limited
Calvino Rabeni: (has no mental model of where it goes)
Eden Haiku: _/|\_
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
stevenaia Michinaga: best to remmeber the dates and times :)
Eden Haiku: Well, salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant to all of you.
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: Good bye
Storm Nordwind: I too will depart
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Storm Nordwind: Goodbye dear friends!
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: night Strm
stevenaia Michinaga: Storm
stevenaia Michinaga: thanls for the weather
Calvino Rabeni: Stylishly as always, departing
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, wonders if he as a scateboard for the summer
stevenaia Michinaga: skate
Calvino Rabeni: Lots of room for layful expression in SL
Calvino Rabeni: Playful I meant
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Calvino Rabeni: If I meet people from this group in RL, I will think "you are a lot bigger than I expected" :)
Calvino Rabeni: Little moving people in a laptop. It reminds me of childhood toys a bit.
stevenaia Michinaga: "Play"
Calvino Rabeni: But this time around I'm more convinced it is the beginning of big future
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, people in RL ahve additioanl complexities about them
Calvino Rabeni: I am a toy, here
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s always the begining
stevenaia Michinaga: nice about every moment, a new begining
stevenaia Michinaga: like a blank piece of paper
Calvino Rabeni: hmmm
Calvino Rabeni: do you think, say, tatoos and piercings (in RL) are related to that idea?
stevenaia Michinaga: for me it;s hard to say as I don;t have any, it may not be for the receiver, but perhaps for the artist
Calvino Rabeni: For the receiver, it is saying - look at me - I am no longer blank - I am writing on this my body with indelible ink. It is a permanent mark.
Calvino Rabeni: Just a thought
stevenaia Michinaga: exactly
Calvino Rabeni: In a sense they rebel against blankness
stevenaia Michinaga: thee can be permanent things, no turning back to a blank canvass,
stevenaia Michinaga: some people need to be anchored to a moment ot a theme in that way
Calvino Rabeni: THe parents say - it might seem like a good idea NOW, but ...
Calvino Rabeni: Anchoring is their desire
Calvino Rabeni: and to make a mark in time
stevenaia Michinaga: a very specific mark that stops time
Calvino Rabeni: it seems like that
stevenaia Michinaga: do you have tattoos?
Calvino Rabeni: no, I just think about it
Calvino Rabeni: I mean consider, but not enough to go get one
stevenaia Michinaga: some tattoos are quite abstract however and can be quite beautiful, something more than just "Mom"
Calvino Rabeni: Not that I want more, but I don't regret the scars I have
stevenaia Michinaga: or "Stella"
Calvino Rabeni: I've seen some I almost coveted
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: or cultural
Calvino Rabeni: My ex has large area tatooos
Calvino Rabeni: I went to a spa that sponsors special groups - one was large women with large tatoos
stevenaia Michinaga: SL or RL?
Calvino Rabeni: Like big-screen tv - lots of surface. Very impressive
Calvino Rabeni: RL
Calvino Rabeni: I was not quite aware of the number of small groups like that, with distinctive features
Calvino Rabeni: And a kind of tribal quality
stevenaia Michinaga: it is a very old tradition
Calvino Rabeni: They redeemed their natural tribalism
Calvino Rabeni: From being possessed by other institutions
Calvino Rabeni: It is ironic or maybe just interesting that globalism results in tribalism.
stevenaia Michinaga: it is something basic to humanity, here we are , member sof SL groups and the PaB tribe
Calvino Rabeni: yes, there is something ancient, rich about it
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps some had dreams of the unity of all humanity in a technological future.
Calvino Rabeni: True too, but it's complex, no?
stevenaia Michinaga: can;t imagine who
Calvino Rabeni: There are more perspectives than ever to identify with
Calvino Rabeni: Techno-utopians, perhaps? The ones that don't have dystopian cyber-punk visions.
Calvino Rabeni: In the dark aspects of that dream there are romances
stevenaia Michinaga: your dream or one you read about "Perhaps some had dreams "
Calvino Rabeni: I meant an aesthetic worldview expressed in literature and in futurism
stevenaia Michinaga: not that familair to me
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds scary
stevenaia Michinaga: techno uniformity?
Calvino Rabeni: Do you follow any genre of drama, e.g. science fiction on television?
stevenaia Michinaga: some
stevenaia Michinaga: recent FLash Forward
stevenaia Michinaga: Star Trek in the past
Calvino Rabeni: That is based on a novel, which I haven't read.
Calvino Rabeni: WIthin a genre you see a progression that speaks of cultural changes
stevenaia Michinaga: available on Hulu.com
Calvino Rabeni: I have seen it there, as I have no TV
stevenaia Michinaga: that;ws what I am saying it is available over the internet
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, the Stargate series. THere were several versions
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Calvino Rabeni: RIght, I watch it there.
stevenaia Michinaga: the movie and series
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and the latest one, Stargate Universe, is kind of stridently postmodern
stevenaia Michinaga: haven;t see those
Calvino Rabeni: As art, aimed at the mainstream zeitgeist
Calvino Rabeni: But geek culture, I think, falls for a different stage of things - maybe post post modern
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: a label to place it in time
Calvino Rabeni: There was a lot of affection for Seldon's stuff (I think that is the name) e.g. Firefly and DOllhouse
Calvino Rabeni: The label can be argued - but kind of identifies a broad cultural trend
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pocohantis
Pocohantis Jumanya: hello stevenaia
Calvino Rabeni: Like in Dollhouse, the in-group is slightly evil, but there is an affection based on tribalism.
Pocohantis Jumanya: hi calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Pocohantis, welcome
stevenaia Michinaga: nice of you to join us
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you discover this location
Pocohantis Jumanya: just tp around
stevenaia Michinaga: we record out conversations here, is it ok if we incluse yu?
stevenaia Michinaga: *include you
stevenaia Michinaga: our, rather
Pocohantis Jumanya: why not
Pocohantis Jumanya: tks
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: we post the logs on our group Wiki
Pocohantis Jumanya: ok
stevenaia Michinaga: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
stevenaia Michinaga: we meet to explore reality as a group 4 time a day, at 1:00 and 7:00 am and PM
Pocohantis Jumanya: I'll just take a moment and read it ok
stevenaia Michinaga: no problem, enjoy
stevenaia Michinaga: so Cal, how do you feel all this future visioning affects now?
Calvino Rabeni: Do you mean, the effect on me personally, or of the fantasies that seem to be all around?
stevenaia Michinaga: I love how certain aspects of architecture are as fresh today as they were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago
Calvino Rabeni: I am very appreciative of the options available
stevenaia Michinaga: how they affect the current moment in general, alike all the 2012 literature and movies currently being circulated
stevenaia Michinaga: a very near future vire
stevenaia Michinaga: view
Calvino Rabeni: I have not tuned into 2012, do you think it is somewhat mainstream?
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me there are millenial visions whenever people get a chance for it.
stevenaia Michinaga: some are trying
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: it generally does not speak well of the future
Calvino Rabeni: You have a concern
stevenaia Michinaga: not at all, I see the worry in some of my friends, though
Pocohantis Jumanya: this is all very interesting however not a good time for me at the moment thank you for the introduction and I 'll return at a better time
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for sitting with us Pocohantis
stevenaia Michinaga: but it;s like jsut abother birthday fo me
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: a passing f time , nothing more
stevenaia Michinaga: nothing you can much about
Calvino Rabeni: How do you choose your horizon?
stevenaia Michinaga: I belive in the hand of fate, I also belive I have a bit of a hand in the hand of fate
stevenaia Michinaga: the paths exists, perhaps made withough my hand, but the choice can be mine
Calvino Rabeni: the hand of fate, in part, your hand.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, as I see it
Calvino Rabeni: (Change "you" to "me")
stevenaia Michinaga: and yours?
Calvino Rabeni: Resolving various paradoxes I suppose. Lately thinking a bit about fate and destiny as themes.
Calvino Rabeni: They seem less remote than in the past
Calvino Rabeni: They are poetic, non-modern ideas.
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds lovely
Calvino Rabeni: In a way it is like swimming upstream - I think that notion came up in one of the Kira groups recently but I don't recall which.
Calvino Rabeni: More ice.
stevenaia Michinaga: I try to persoanlly avoid upstream swims, or make upstream downstream somehow
Calvino Rabeni: We don't have to have weather here but we enjoy it - a simulation of nature
Calvino Rabeni: Upstream swimming converts fate to destiny - kind of a formula I know, but something I consider
stevenaia Michinaga: and downstream lets fate take you away?
Calvino Rabeni: In that metaphor yes
Calvino Rabeni: It's not the "follow the tao" metaphor.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: destiny seems like an uphill battle, alot of work to possibly get to the same place
Calvino Rabeni: there are stories about that distinction.
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure
Calvino Rabeni: People who fought their fate, embraced their destiny and made something of it.
Calvino Rabeni: And paradoxically they could not change the fate nor escape from it
Calvino Rabeni: but its character was transformed through their wholehearted participation.
stevenaia Michinaga: not in this universe
stevenaia Michinaga: the joys of having many universes
Calvino Rabeni: In a chat medium, it's kind of limited, hard to tell a long story like that one.
Calvino Rabeni: We get to speak in short coded phrases
Calvino Rabeni: And imagine the rest
Calvino Rabeni: Luckily the internet backs us up with references and links
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: but still it is not as enjoyable as to step into the presence of creating the story afresh
stevenaia Michinaga: I msut be off
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Cal

Calvino Rabeni: YW, a pleasure, steve